Think you know everything about the problem with Islam?

originally posted by: samjonesy

Yah, and you need to be telling your Christian and Jewish buddies...

Except in most of those examples the driving factor behind doing or not doing something... well, it isn't their religious beliefs.

I don't see ISIS beheading people in the name of fiscal policy.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: UnBreakable

Yeah I think that's a bit of a generalisation from Ghandi to be honest...





I made sure to single out the Christian who posted rather than make a blanket statement...





But intolerance is definitely in all beliefs & non-belief demographics.

Yep, I wasn't trying to generalize, either, just pointing out that SOME Christians base their whole interpretation of Christianity on the subjects of homosexuality and abortion, to name a few. Its funny that they judge people when it is Christ's place to do so, instead of adhering to the "he who is without sin cast the first stone" philosophy of JC.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: InhaleExhale

I thought I read that somewhere...

Gotta laugh really!

Its not a laughing matter unless you want this division to continue, then laugh away.

I know when I get angered or have negative thoughts and feeling is when rationality and basic thinking start to fade in my mind.

This is what I am seeing much of on ATS, all thought I have stayed away for some time and in the last few days reading a few threads I am astounded at all the hate and negativity being thrown around because of what, a few events that are just reruns of atrocities done before by humans.

I cant take all the hate on this site anymore, logged in the other day and today and it feels like I need a break from ATS for a few months.

a reply to: UnBreakable

John 7:24 removes that philosophy with this...
"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."



It's a common fall back tactic of Christianity to become the Judge...


However I don't know how much of their judgement is "righteous".

a reply to: InhaleExhale

I know how you feel about staying away...


But that gives them the victory imo.




I don't even think some of these people believe what they're saying...
I think its a new tactic to drive away others from the site for other reasons.
I won't let them feel victorious though.


Pitiful laughter, by the way, not comedic.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: UnBreakable



John 7:24 removes that philosophy with this...

"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."







It's a common fall back tactic of Christianity to become the Judge...





However I don't know how much of their judgement is "righteous".

But in Matthew 7:1-2 it says "1"Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2"For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.…"

Hopefully this will apply to the people who adhere to John 7:24.

The problem with Islam/Muslim are the extremists/Fundamentalists. The same goes for any other religion. These people will always, always fight. With each other and their own people. The same as other religionists (I'm gonna call them that so I'm leaving no one out.)

The same old people, talking about the same old things, and patting each other on the back for being so 'enlightened.' Funny how so few people actually agree with you. Save for a few posters, who are probably all good friends IRL, most people don't seem to care about this subject. You can't really have a conversations with people that have already made up their mind, that's why threads like this are useless.

originally posted by: Chronogoblin
The same old people, talking about the same old things, and patting each other on the back for being so 'enlightened.' Funny how so few people actually agree with you. Save for a few posters, who are probably all good friends IRL, most people don't seem to care about this subject. You can't really have a conversations with people that have already made up their mind, that's why threads like this are useless.

Glad you added your thought provoking perspective to this thread of the 'same old people' talking about the 'same old things'. For myself, I actually learn something new from the 'same old people' each time I visit threads which talk about the 'same old things.' Friends? I don't believe any of these members are on my friends list and I doubt I'm on theirs. Peace to ya, brotha.

originally posted by: samjonesy

Isis is supported and created by the U.S. and Israel (didn't Israel just bomb Hezbollah in Syria which are fighting and killing Isis), and funded by the Saudi Arabians who in turn are protected militarily by the U.S. At the expense of every Muslim that lives in the middle east since the USA has bombed just about every country in the region.

People love to throw around these wild speculations that the USA is funding Isis. Show me concrete proof. I wouldn't put it past them, but it seems more like an urban legend to me.

No matter what, Isis is not a contained or controlled monster. It's hatred and agenda is spilling over in countries like my own. We just got a news report yesterday of an Immam now calling for a Muslim army to be set up in Australia to 'reclaim what has been taken from them' Rather strange given that they are not native and are relative late comers to our society at large.

Doesn't isreal treat the Isis wounded in Israeli hosptals. Based on your own standards of judging adherents to certain religions you must admit that this is a Christian and Jewish monster.

Once again, sources please. I've read that Isis is using the Yazidi prisoners (who are Christian I believe) as living blood banks for their hospitals to treat their fighters.

So, no. I don't admit that

[quote[
The truth is that Christians are killing the only people in the world who are fighting against Isis (Hezbollah and Syria) while The Jews of Israel are healing them so they can kill more innocent Muslims.


There is no Christian army bombing Syria. Any govt beyond Israel is secular. You must understand that there is no such thing as a Christian nation We have nations where Christianity was the original religion, but they are now totally secular in their rule and have pluralist views on religion now. This means that even Islam is part of the western way.

I agree with you about Syria though. A way needs to be found to support the Assad regime in the battle against Isis.

It seems to me that you are being extremely irrational for not fearing Christianity and Judaism while fearing Islam.

There are no Christian armies. There are no Christian terrorists killing people in the name of Jesus. The worst Christianity does these days is get lippy. It then gets shouted down by those who disagree from the wider community. Our rule is secular and pluralistic in nature.

Islamic rule on the other hand is one track minded and definitely not pluralistic. Just take a look at what they are doing to the minorities in the Isis controlled areas. It is sickening beyond belief.

Israel is a wild card and I do not support them or their antagonist actions one bit.

The old testament is the violent religous text in the world, calling for killing children and even babies, calling for complete annihilation of any one who does not worship the god.
At the same time you find anything remotely like that in the Muslim Quran.

As far as Christianity goes, that is the old covenant. Jesus does not call for the death of anyone. The only death of Children in the New Testament was King Herod (a pagan) calling for all the male babies to be killed in order to eradicate the Christ baby which he feared.

Jesus taught to turn the other cheek in the face of violence. He was a pacifist.

You say nothing remotely like that in the Qu'ran, but we have a prophet who married a 9 year old girl and instructions on how to beat your wife.

NO, nothing remotely like that at all........

I am not saying it is not happening.
but in the first two videos,
I don't see any truth in what you say!

I dont have time to watch the vids now, but will watch tomorrow.
S&F OP

a reply to: Metallicus

And what were you doing while your government was busy murdering a million innocents in Iraq because of some imaginary weapons of mass destruction?

a reply to: markosity1973
www.washingtonpost.com... ry.html

This is proof that the u.S. is supporting the terrorists, this is well known , I'm surprised that you even asked for it.

This link here provides pictures of John McCain with FSA rebels who have mostly joined Isis,
www.globalresearch.ca...

Again this is well known if you but look,

Here are links of christians killing since you don't except U.S. as a christian country (which is pretty lame)

www.washingtonpost.com... 1e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html
www.irinnews.org...
www.warchild.org.uk...

If your a christian you have a bible in your house and it has the old testament in it , you mean to tell me parts of the OT are not read in Sunday school???

Muhammad married a 9 year old??? The Jews made up similar lies about Jesus and his Mother so im not surprised similar things are said about Muhammad. The fact is that Aisha actually was engaged to someone else before she married Muhammad so.....was she gonna marry at 5 , this is absurd. Cross referencing sources shows she was most likely 19 or 20 at the time here marriage.

..and besides, if Muslims actually believed it, why is it that christian priests and jewish rabbis are the ones with a molestation epidemic and not Imams?

Ashin Wirathu is a hatemongering Burmese monk who is in the news today for calling a UN Special Envoy a bitch and a whore.

I wonder what the Buddha would have said about that.

originally posted by: markosity1973

A senior Muslim cleric in Australia has sparked a furore by comparing women who do not wear a headscarf to "uncovered meat", implying that they invited sexual assault.
Sheik Taj Aldin al-Hilali delivered his comments in a religious address on adultery to around 500 worshippers in Sydney last month, but they only came to the attention of the wider public when they were published in the Australian paper today.

Sheik Hilali was quoted as saying: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside ... without cover, and the cats come to eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats' or the uncovered meat's? The uncovered meat is the problem. If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab [the headdress worn by some Muslim women], no problem would have occurred."

What Sheik Hilali said was a metaphor blown out of proportion by the media. The words he spoke were in arabic, and it may have lost some of it's catch/appeal when translated into English. There is nothing wrong with what he said.

A girl who is dressed half naked is obviously going to attract unwanted attention. His point was the girl in infact inviting unwanted attention to herself be it intentionally or un-intentionally.

NEVER ever did he state that the girl deserve to be taken advantage of in any way shape or form. If you have any knowledge of Islam you would know no such thing is justifiable.

This is the same sheik who offered his life in exchange for a captured Australian hostage held by a terrorist group overseas. He was solely responsible for the release of that man, and was risking his own life for no gain. He is kind hearted and opposes any extremism in any shape or form, and recently has even spoken out against Isis and other muslims with extreme ideologys.

How quickly society has forgotten that for thousands of years the standard dress code has been conservative and modest, yet only in the past few decades we have seen the ''sex appeal' influence evolve.

a reply to: markosity1973

Below are links showing US officals mentioning the US funding of money, weapons & also training to terrorists groups including ISIS. They were all created for a divide & conquer strategy.

1st link: Ron Paul, 2nd link: Hilary Clinton, 3rd link: Rand Paul

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: samjonesy
a reply to: markosity1973

[snipped]

Muhammad married a 9 year old??? The Jews made up similar lies about Jesus and his Mother so im not surprised similar things are said about Muhammad. The fact is that Aisha actually was engaged to someone else before she married Muhammad so.....was she gonna marry at 5 , this is absurd. Cross referencing sources shows she was most likely 19 or 20 at the time here marriage....

WRONG. Muhammad married a 9 year old girl named Aisha. Muhammad was about 50 years old when he spotted the six (6) year old Aisha and asked for her in marriage. Aisha's father considered Aisha too young, so Muhammad had to wait until Aisha was nine (9) before he was allowed to marry her.

My sources are "Muhammad: A Biography of the Prophet" by Karen Armstrong. Armstrong bent over backwards to be as lenient towards Muhammad as possible. This book is NOT a hachet job by an Islamophobe. She received the 1999 "Muslim Public Affairs Council Media Award" for it.

The other source I use is "Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources" by Martin Lings. Lings was not only an Oxford scholar on Arabic, but converted (unfortunately) to Islam thru his study of Sufism. A very long story. True Sufism is NOT the same thing as Islam, although the two are often confused by the ignorant.

I need to add here that Aisha could NOT possibly have been 19 or 20 when she married Muhammad. Muhammad was already dead by the time Aisha was 19 or 20.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
Except the issue is they are killing people of their own faith who dont subscribe to the extremist doctrine they are pushing.....

I think this is the part that people do not want to think about. I would say that about 99% of Muslim violence is Muslim on Muslim. We are more of a collateral damage event than anything else. 11 die in Paris, but that same day I would bet 100s of Muslims were killed by Muslims.

I have said many times in previous posts it is all a numbers game. When you have 100s of extremist it is a local issue, when you 10,000s of extremist it is a world issue. The other 1.4 billion are nice people, but that doesn't take away from such a large number of true 13th century evil mind set.

originally posted by: AnuTyr
Muslims are encouraged to lie

Summary Answer: Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences." There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.

The Qur'an: Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie. Qur'an (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves." Qur'an (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway. Qur'an (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers. Qur'an (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts" The context of this remark is marriage, which explains why Sharia allows spouses to lie to each other for the greater good. Qur'an (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths" Qur'an (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means 'deceit'. If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21) Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.

From the Hadith:



Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage (see Additional Notes below).



Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.



Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permissible in order to deceive an "enemy."



Muslim (32:6303) - "...he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them)."



Bukhari (50:369) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered despite putting up a ferocious struggle for his life.



From Islamic Law:



Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression...



"One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie.

Muslims are allowed to lie to unbelievers in order to defeat them. The two forms are: Taqiyya - Saying something that isn't true. Kitman - Lying by omission. An example would be when Muslim apologists quote only a fragment of verse 5:32 (that if anyone kills "it shall be as if he had killed all mankind") while neglecting to mention that the rest of the verse (and the next) mandate murder in undefined cases of "corruption" and "mischief."

Excellent post.