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The forgotten legacy of reincarnation in early christianity

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posted on Jan, 18 2015 @ 09:50 AM
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This is a topic of great interest to me. I was babtized into orthodox christian faith and studied hard science in college. Mine were very traditional beliefs until a personal experience changed everything. Its really what brought me here.

While driving in the passenger seat with my wife past an old prison in Virginia, I suddenly had a waking vision of my own funeral in the very same place.

Although the experience lasted a fraction of a second, the detail I picked up would have taken ten minutes of careful observation to gather.

I saw my closed casket resting on saw horses under a canvass canopy. It was raining, late fall, cold. I could smell decaying leaves and manure.

I could feel the emotions of my veiled widow grieving over my casket. Though I could not see her face, I knew it was my girlfriend from high school.

My ghost, dressed in a Union officer's blue coat and hat stood twenty yards away viewing the scene with absolute stoicism and objectivity. I had a large black beard and larger stature than my current body.

There was no doubt it was me I saw. It changed me forever. I have no doubt I've lived before.

That experience was just the first. To this day I've been trying to understand the meaning of why I had those experiences.

Of the many priests I've consulted, one said he'd been waiting years to meet somebody like me and promised to help unravel things but he stopped returning my calls and emails.




posted on Jan, 18 2015 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: beansidhe

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, children and wounded-souls love rocks. It's a sense of going-back-to-your-roots, to relearn or do a reset, to remember your real roots - and hopefully get it right this time. Rocks also contain a Godly energy, but don't have an intellect or emotions. They are connected to God but protected from pain, remorse and horrible memories.

Think of geologists and "rock hounds." Not exactly equated with spirituality, they still study and crave to learn about a substance that is at the root of all of living things. And, like the yin-yang balance of the entire cosmos, there are rocks that are more positive or more negative in original composition.

Think of all the ancient civilizations that built or carved with granite - that has embedded crystals. The interior of the largest chamber in the largest pyramid in Egypt is lined with granite. Giving birth to the theory that it was really a chamber for power-creation. Or how some rocks can merge with human misery, like black obsidian called "Apache Tears" in the Old West.



posted on Jan, 18 2015 @ 10:05 AM
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How can God crawl into the body of someone !?
I think there is a confusion in Christianity. Jesus is a pure mirror that sun can be seen in it. Does this mean that sun is in the mirror or mirror is sun !?
Duality in existence is contrary to wisdom. Lots of scriptures can not prove it, even !

“Beware that you may be swept out from your listening to these phrases, and imagine that the relation among contingencies and Him-The Exalted- is incarnation (hulul) and union (ittihad), and relates to these two [modes]! Lest [this notion is seriously entertained, for] this would necessitate the duality in the foundation of existence.
When the true sun has arisen and its light shines on the contingencies which are spread in the forms of essences (mahiyya), it becomes clear and evident that whatever has the name of existence is nothing but a form of [ever] persisting unity and a radiance of the Light of Lights”. (M 117, pg. 67)
www.mullasadra.org...

The Theory of the Unity of Being and its Demonstrability in Mullà Sadrà and Ibn ‘Arabí
www.mullasadra.org...@.htm
If the link above did not work use the link bellow !

www.mullasadra.org/new_site/English/Paper%20Bank/Ontology/Theory%20of%20the%20Unity%20@.htm

edit on 18-1-2015 by maes2 because: (no reason given)

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posted on Jan, 18 2015 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: DeepImpactX

In reality, science and religion should complement each other - not be battling opposites.

It's like the historical aspect of the Bible. What it says is the Truth - but written at the time when the populace could most understand it. The writers of Genesis couldn't totally understand what was revealed to them about the swirling gases gathering into planets and eventually calming down to accomodate Life. So the writers spoke instead of God saying "Let their be light" (a sun to orbit around), and from that water and land. There was no conception of eons of Time thousands of years ago, but people COULD understand small divisions of time, so they wrote "6 days of creation" instead of "6 gazillion years of creation.)

Which is a big problem with the Creationists: no one reads the Old Testament! Genesis is the same as the scientific explanation of evolution. And God wouldn't have given us a brain if He intended us to stay rooted in one simplistic mind-set - clutching a Good Book written truthfully for a simpler time and simpler people with a simpler understanding. He wants us to grow and learn!

And embracing a scientific understanding as a bridge to religion and spirituality is the way to go! Not sitting stubbornly in a box labeled Science, or in a box labeled Religion, hating and disparaging each other! Think how many wars today are being waged thru a hatred of one religion or another. And in countries other than Europe and the U.S., religions are not just a "faith", they are a culture and mindset that westerners desperately need to learn more about and be more tolerant of. The decades of callousness toward Muslims France accepted as immigrants - then isolated and ignored - resulted in the recent explosion of rage in Paris.

Signs are everywhere that God is being ignored, that just going to church/temple/mosque and reading ancient texts really addressed to the people-of-the-time, are not enough. Do a reset, get updated! Here's another recent thread on ATS, about clinging to the comfort-zone of the Past, when current events are driving us toward a catastrophic future due to our heads buried in the sand:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
WEIRD LUCID DREAM
edit on 18-1-2015 by MKMoniker because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2015 @ 10:39 AM
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a reply to: MKMoniker

I firmly believe we are approaching the time when science will uncover irrefutable evidence of the soul and the hologram created in which the soul gathers new experience of the Creator's universe.



posted on Jan, 18 2015 @ 10:49 AM
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a reply to: LABTECH767

the concept of reincarnation is sprinkled throughout the gospels, but Christians simply do not recognise it... I believe the teaching was "deleted" but all of it simply could not be erased so Christianity made up its own version of the teaching that remains

they've been taught that we only have one chance and one life... for good reason of course

IF you only have one chance, its more incentive to listen to the ones promoting the concept of eternal life, which of course the priests of the church held the keys to...

Something to think on...

John 10
Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.


edit on 18-1-2015 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2015 @ 10:57 AM
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There were a lot of cult practices the Jews did. And some still do. The evil must be very alluring because the Jews did it throughout the bible.
2 Corinthians 11:14

No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

People still fall for his lies.
Jesus said to the Jews, John 8:44

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

They sacrificed their own children to Molech.
Leviticus 18:21

And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through [the fire] to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I [am] the LORD.

Jeremiah 32:35

And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

Heil even built the foundations of Jericho on his son.

Joshua 6:26 "In his days did Hiel the Bethelite build Jericho: he laid the foundation thereof in Abiram his firstborn..."


There was all kinds of evil committed by Jews in 'secret'. There are real powers involved in the mystic religions, just not powers I would mess with.
Why seek tidbits from the little 'gods', which turn to evil, and pay with your eternal soul, when you can dine with the one TRUE God.

ETA: As related to the OP title question, I believe there are many powers out there that seek to deceive.
I believe experiences were a real phenomenon, but a deception.
Be careful of the spirits you entertain,
Just my two cents, I know these beliefs are considered outdated and foolish by some, and to each their own.
ATS is about sharing ideas, and these are mine.


I expect to be shredded, but it is all good. I am not saying convert or die!

Ignore if you wish, but at least you cant say you never heard.
God Bless
Steve
edit on 1 18 2015 by stosh64 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2015 @ 11:00 AM
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originally posted by: mcChoodles
a reply to: MKMoniker

I firmly believe we are approaching the time when science will uncover irrefutable evidence of the soul and the hologram created in which the soul gathers new experience of the Creator's universe.


I also believe we are approaching a revealing, irrefutable proof. But I also believe many will follow a falsehood.



posted on Jan, 18 2015 @ 11:12 AM
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a reply to: MKMoniker
I agree with much of what you said.

To me science and the Bible go hand in hand.

Sadly many are blinded and can not possibly consider it.



posted on Jan, 18 2015 @ 12:09 PM
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a reply to: LABTECH767

Slavery is more easily enforced under a "one life only" belief system. If a slave believes this way they will be willing to put up with much more oppression than if they believe that this life sucks and maybe the next will be better.

Hand in hand with this is the taboo on suicide. The slave who believes they will go to Hell if they end their own lives of slavery will not opt for the next incarnation, but will suffer and work for longer in this life.

Oh yes, tyrants and slave owners have a vested interest in suppressing reincarnation and the wholly human right to determine when they they wish to vacate the current situation.

Edit. Akragon above also points out this.


IF you only have one chance, its more incentive to listen to the ones promoting the concept of eternal life, which of course the priests of the church held the keys to...


The more I think about this 'one way', 'one chance' the more I see it as a tool of oppression and authoritarianism.
edit on 31America/ChicagoSun, 18 Jan 2015 12:21:10 -0600Sun, 18 Jan 2015 12:21:10 -060015012015-01-18T12:21:10-06:0012u21 by TerryMcGuire because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2015 @ 12:25 PM
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a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Re: Suicide.. It wasn't until a period of folks getting out of their "skin suits early" that TheChurch™ made 'suicide' a mortal sin.. Year 240 seems to stick for some reason??



posted on Jan, 18 2015 @ 12:41 PM
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a reply to: LABTECH767

The church obviously had to get rid of the idea of reincarnation simply because if you reincarnate you don't go to heaven or hell or have God's judgement so christianity without the threat of punishment of your soul doesn't work without a heaven or hell. The early church fathers couldn't have that!

Simples.



posted on Jan, 18 2015 @ 12:43 PM
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a reply to: mcChoodles

Thanks for your reply. We already have irrefutable proof of the human Soul. It's just that most people can't assimilate that element of reality into their consciousness. (And/or, we've been taught in past lives to let go of the dead, lest they come back to haunt or terrorize you.)

Here's one of the most beautiful essays I've ever read about the power of the Soul. And the internal struggles of a fine physician watching an incurable patient approach death ...

content.time.com...
THE BRAIN: THE POWER OF HOPE

content.time.com...
ENTIRE JAN. 29, 2007 "TIME" ISSUE ON "THE BRAIN"
Somewhat dated, but still relevant.
edit on 18-1-2015 by MKMoniker because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2015 @ 12:47 PM
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a reply to: MKMoniker

There may (or may not) be hubris attached to associating humanity as a representation of upward "progression" in the game of Boostrap Reincarnation. Sure, we can accept as a possibility that there is a purpose to exist, and then go further and ascribe, as a purpose, the improvement of the soul from some dirtbag flea floating through the Cosmos to a demi god purified through the annals of Earth's history. Its a heartwarming concept that is played out in Hollywood year after year, that nothing makes something of itself.

But why presume that in the above allegory that humans are the pinnacle, or close to the pinnacle, of nobility of life on this planet? Dogs come to mind as a far more noble, "advanced" creature than humans. Intelligence, while an advantage that humans can appreciate, may be far, far over rated as a result of our own bias.



posted on Jan, 18 2015 @ 12:48 PM
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I don't know about reincarnation. It sounds nice in theory but in practice it is what has lead to things like caste systems. Look to cultures that believe in reincarnation and you will not find much compassion. That poor suffering soul deserves their suffering due to some unknowable evil in a past life is a great excuse to be apathetic. Also it would seem those in power who oppress us are being rewarded for their deeds in past lives? See it kind of falls flat. Sounds like a great lie that deceptive spirits want humans to believe so that we do not have to take responsibility for the suffering of others or the injustices that surround us. Just my 2cents. Fringe sects that still clung to their pagan beliefs are the reason the belief died out because Jesus said no such thing. The rest of the Jesus account remains unaltered but somehow we are to believe that all of his followers just forgot about the whole reincarnation thing. /shrug

Brainwashed Kamikaze pilots also come to mind. A very useful tool indeed.
edit on 18-1-2015 by NihilistSanta because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2015 @ 12:55 PM
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a reply to: NihilistSanta


I don't know about reincarnation. It sounds nice in theory but in practice it is what has lead to things like caste systems. Look to cultures that believe in reincarnation and you will not find much compassion. That poor suffering soul deserves their suffering due to some unknowable evil in a past life is a great excuse to be apathetic.


That would only show said systems lack of understanding about reincarnation...

The idea would be to reduce any suffering that could be inflicted on any soul... Leaving said soul to his/her journey through this suffering without any assistance would be counter productive... and in fact would just add Karmic debt to the person that neglected to help his fellow soul

Do no harm is the rule in Karmic systems... but lack of action when assisting is possible is not that path... Im not so sure about the Caste system, but if it does not adhere to that rule... it is flawed




posted on Jan, 18 2015 @ 01:03 PM
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“'I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

It's always struck me that the above passage was probably about reincarnation. It was such a common belief back in the day.



posted on Jan, 18 2015 @ 01:11 PM
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originally posted by: MKMoniker
a reply to: beansidhe

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, children and wounded-souls love rocks. It's a sense of going-back-to-your-roots, to relearn or do a reset, to remember your real roots - and hopefully get it right this time. Rocks also contain a Godly energy, but don't have an intellect or emotions. They are connected to God but protected from pain, remorse and horrible memories.

Think of geologists and "rock hounds." Not exactly equated with spirituality, they still study and crave to learn about a substance that is at the root of all of living things. And, like the yin-yang balance of the entire cosmos, there are rocks that are more positive or more negative in original composition.

Think of all the ancient civilizations that built or carved with granite - that has embedded crystals. The interior of the largest chamber in the largest pyramid in Egypt is lined with granite. Giving birth to the theory that it was really a chamber for power-creation. Or how some rocks can merge with human misery, like black obsidian called "Apache Tears" in the Old West.



See my avatar? 700 lbs of what is called Oregon Jade. Our friend sits in our front yard after we helped him from the river bed where he had been imprisioned for what, a million years? But then what's time to those of us who live for eternity.



posted on Jan, 18 2015 @ 01:12 PM
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a reply to: Akragon

Christianity didn't "make up" Reincarnation. It's been a long-held tenet of the Hindu religion:

www.hinduwebsite.com...
HINDU WEBSITE: REINCARNATION

And most Good Books preach the same Truth, in different languages and style. I own a copy of the Islamic Good Book, the Koran too, and it preaches the same "Live Your Spiritual Truths" as the Bible does:

"God forgives those who commit evil in ignorance, and then quickly turn to Him in penitence. God will pardon them. God is all-knowing and wise. But He will not forgive those who do evil and, when death comes to them, say 'Now we repent!'"
The Koran, Al-Nisa' 4:16

The many references to sheep in the Bible is a double-edged sword. Following a wise and just leader (religious or secular) is a deeply held idea in all of us, thru many lifetimes. Being duped by evil, corrupt and vicious "leaders" - who just see us as mindless, herded "sheep" to be milked and sacrificed to their false wonderfulness - is unfortunately an equally long-held experience thru many lifetimes.

"For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light."
2 Corinthians 11:14

So who does the most harm? The demonic "leader" in disguise as Goodness? Or people who know the Truth and won't speak up to warn and protect those innocent other "sheep"?
edit on 18-1-2015 by MKMoniker because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2015 @ 01:23 PM
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Hi, reincarnated "body/mind/spirit" complexes.

I have fond a very good explanation of where we come from and
where we are going, in life after life. . .

You can read about it using the second line of my signature.

Blue skies.



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