Listen Muslims/Islam

Since the attacks on Paris, I've noticed how little we've heard condemning the events from the Muslim world. For clarity, sure some western muslims have said they didn't support what happened, many condemned. But what of Islamic nations, where are the responses from the people of these countries?

Back in 2003, over a million people took to the streets of the UK to tell our leaders that the upcoming war in Iraq was NOT in our name, that we didn't support it.

This was our political voice being expressed but also a message to people around the world that we didn't agree with this.

All i've seen from the Islamic world are stories like these:

www.theguardian.com...

www.dailymail.co.uk...

rt.com...


The list goes on.


So from my perspective:

The majority of western muslims appear to have been silent. People will suspect this is because they support what happened or at least, think that they "brought it on themselves".

A few western muslims have spoken out but many have qualified that criticism by saying people should not be allowed to "insult the prophet" (i.e. restriction on freedom of speech).

Most Islamic nations appear to have shown no solidarity with those murdered and only protested against the cartoons/freedom of speech.


YET

Politicians have said nothing. They have NOT spoke up for the people of the west.


My gut feeling is, the "fanatics" are having far more success than we would give them credit for -

Self censorship is apparent everywhere - media and from the public and policitians.

Anger is rising amongst formerly "neutral" westerners.

We're noticing the lack of condemnation and solidarity.



I dread to think where this is heading but can't imagine this isn't going to end up in a major international crisis/war.

a reply to: citizenx1

Yet another has woken up from the slumber of the matrix.

Welcome to the frightening reality of 2015

This is ultimately going to go one of two ways I think;

Enough of us will lose out temper and it will be a war between 'us' and 'them' waged not only between nations but within too

OR

Islam will wash over the world like an unholy tidal wave with people only realising it's too late when they have a gun to their head someone screaming at them to accept Mohammed is the only prophet or they die.

imo you are probably right but i do not think speaking out would be very smart over there it would be suicide

cue moral outrage in 3... 2... 1...


Seriously, you're dead on.
Ultimately it comes down to a single, simple point.

The difference between an extremist Muslim and a moderate Muslim is one of obedience.
The extremist is obedient to the Quran; the moderate is not.

What people are finally starting to see isn't the face of a "tiny minority" (try proving that statistically) - it's the true face of Islam. What the West needs to do now is empower the moderates and the reformers. Give them a voice; give them a platform, and allow Islam to reform itself from within. That, however, will never happen. Politicians will continue to whitewash Islamist terrorism, the world will continue to hold hands and sing for solidarity, and the problem will perpetuate itself until it crashes through the boundaries of our narrow-minded reality in a way we cannot ignore. ...only this time, it won't be 2000 people in a tower. It'll be many, many more than that - and the world will never be the same.

a reply to: citizenx1

Most Islamic nations appear to have shown no solidarity with those murdered and only protested against the cartoons/freedom of speech.

Thats subjective. Especially from a western, English speaking perspective. You should prefer Islam to apologize to you personally in English? For what? The disparity between what happened in France and what France(NATO) is doing in the Middle East and Africa is glaringly obvious to the rest of the non-English speaking world.

"All i hear" is what I hear.

originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: citizenx1

Yet another has woken up from the slumber of the matrix.

Welcome to the frightening reality of 2015

This is ultimately going to go one of two ways I think;

Enough of us will lose out temper and it will be a war between 'us' and 'them' waged not only between nations but within too

OR

Islam will wash over the world like an unholy tidal wave with people only realising it's too late when they have a gun to their head someone screaming at them to accept Mohammed is the only prophet or they die.

I suspect the latter will begin to happen in an undeniable way then the former will happen as a consequence.

My feeling is, we are within a decade of such events.

originally posted by: IAMAMOG
imo you are probably right but i do not think speaking out would be very smart over there it would be suicide

I know where you're coming from. It wouldn't only be suicide, due to some new legislation being passed, it would, in theory be a criminal offence!

hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk...

n a consultation paper attached to the Bill, all kinds of institutions, from nursery schools (yes really, see paragraph 107) to universities, are warned that they must be on the lookout for ‘extremists’. But universities are told they have a ‘responsibility to exclude those promoting extremist views that support or are conducive to terrorism’.

Those words ‘conducive to’ are so vague that they could include almost anybody with views outside the mainstream. What follows might have come from the laws of the Chinese People’s Republic or Mr Putin’s Russia. Two weeks’ advance notice of meetings must be given so that speakers can be checked up on, and the meeting cancelled if necessary.

Warning must also be given of the topic, ‘sight of any presentations, footage to be broadcast, etc’. A ‘risk assessment’ must be made on whether the meeting should be cancelled altogether, compelled to include an opposing speaker or (even more creepy) ‘someone in the audience to monitor the event’. Institutions will be obliged to promote ‘British values’.

These are defined as ‘democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect and tolerance for those with different faiths and beliefs’. ‘Vocal and active opposition’ to any of these is now officially described as ‘extremism’.

There is more to it. The article is worth a read.

originally posted by: Awen24
cue moral outrage in 3... 2... 1...


Seriously, you're dead on.
Ultimately it comes down to a single, simple point.

The difference between an extremist Muslim and a moderate Muslim is one of obedience.
The extremist is obedient to the Quran; the moderate is not.

What people are finally starting to see isn't the face of a "tiny minority" (try proving that statistically) - it's the true face of Islam. What the West needs to do now is empower the moderates and the reformers. Give them a voice; give them a platform, and allow Islam to reform itself from within. That, however, will never happen. Politicians will continue to whitewash Islamist terrorism, the world will continue to hold hands and sing for solidarity, and the problem will perpetuate itself until it crashes through the boundaries of our narrow-minded reality in a way we cannot ignore. ...only this time, it won't be 2000 people in a tower. It'll be many, many more than that - and the world will never be the same.

I believe it IS the true face of Islam - and i'll be honest, I didn't.

I truly accept that there are many western muslims who do not think like this and do not support it. But I can only conclude that there are many more who DO.

The politicians are so afraid of people lining up to attack muslims that they speak to us on the subject like children.

This will only hold back the tide for so long, they need a much more sensible approach. Whether what you describe will do it, i'm not able to say but we've reached a crossroad I think.

originally posted by: citizenx1

My feeling is, we are within a decade of such events.

I'm not going to be so bold as put a date on anything, but I will say this;

We've let the devil into our back yard and he is building an army of the likes we have never seen before.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: citizenx1

Most Islamic nations appear to have shown no solidarity with those murdered and only protested against the cartoons/freedom of speech.

Thats subjective. Especially from a western, English speaking perspective. You should prefer Islam to apologize to you personally in English? For what? The disparity between what happened in France and what France(NATO) is doing in the Middle East and Africa is glaringly obvious to the rest of the non-English speaking world.

"All i hear" is what I hear.

Did you miss the bit where I explained that those actions were "not in our name"? Do you not understand the nuances of what is being said here?

Do I expect people of Islamic nations to say sorry? No. I DO expect them to say "we don't agree with this, it isn't in our name" BECAUSE without such comments, we must conclude it IS something they support.

IF they do, then all bets are off. If the west and Islamic nations ever do engage in a full-on war i will say this - we've got more tech and infrastructure.

We'll be using a cruise missles against a donkey carrying a few AK-47's.

Mind you, the bigger threat in the west are sleeper cells in our towns and cities but in such a war, we'd take up arms and they wouldn't have any soft targets.

Wow just what ATS needs, another stupid, ignorant & absurd thread/post asking for all Muslims to take to the streets and condemn the attacks.

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: citizenx1

My feeling is, we are within a decade of such events.

I'm not going to be so bold as put a date on anything, but I will say this;

We've let the devil into our back yard and he is building an army of the likes we have never seen before.

.

I use that timescale only as a comparison with where the tone of the nation felt 10 years ago - its moved and very rapidly.

The most irritating thing is, there are many things I dislike about our "western values" and I think if we were to take on *some* islamic (and other faiths/cultures) morality in certain regards we'd all be a lot happier. But this isn't possible with the goals of fundamentalist people because its all or nothing for them.

For anyone in the UK, I'd recommend recent episode of Panorama.

www.bbc.co.uk...

When this kind of thing makes in onto BBC1 at "primetime" you know times are a changing!

originally posted by: stargatetravels
Wow just what ATS needs, another stupid, ignorant & absurd thread/post asking for all Muslims to take to the streets and condemn the attacks.

Thanks for that insightful analysis.

Care to explain why you say that or not?

originally posted by: stargatetravels
Wow just what ATS needs, another stupid, ignorant & absurd thread/post asking for all Muslims to take to the streets and condemn the attacks.

Even better would be Isis, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram and all the other militant Islam groups putting down their guns to stop the slaughter of the innocents.

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: stargatetravels
Wow just what ATS needs, another stupid, ignorant & absurd thread/post asking for all Muslims to take to the streets and condemn the attacks.

Even better would be Isis, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram and all the other militant Islam groups putting down their guns to stop the slaughter of the innocents.

Absolutely, though I'm not sure what that has to do with the average Muslim.

a reply to: citizenx1

Do I expect people of Islamic nations to say sorry? No. I DO expect them to say "we don't agree with this, it isn't in our name" BECAUSE without such comments, we must conclude it IS something they support.

What they 'don't agree' with is aggressive war being waged in the Middle East by Western Nations in the name of conquest, oil and money, (our God). They been complaining about that forever, something you won't hear much about in the western main scream media.

Pretty arrogant to expect them to 'not agree' with something so small as a few deaths in reprisal for all the West has done to their homelands.

Blaming the victims much?

originally posted by: stargatetravels

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: stargatetravels
Wow just what ATS needs, another stupid, ignorant & absurd thread/post asking for all Muslims to take to the streets and condemn the attacks.

Even better would be Isis, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram and all the other militant Islam groups putting down their guns to stop the slaughter of the innocents.

Absolutely, though I'm not sure what that has to do with the average Muslim.

It has the same to do with them as the protests about western actions in foreign nations had to do with those of us who said "no".

It isn't a double standard, it is the expectation of solidarity on a human level.

It is not difficult to grasp.

originally posted by: citizenx1

The most irritating thing is, there are many things I dislike about our "western values" and I think if we were to take on *some* islamic (and other faiths/cultures) morality in certain regards we'd all be a lot happier. But this isn't possible with the goals of fundamentalist people because its all or nothing for them.

I know, that is the biggest and most perplexing problem for us, we are being forced to discriminate by default because of their agenda. Every tiny bit of ground we give them will be a massive battle to win back.

I am often guilty of making what sounds like broad and sweeping statements about Islam, but it is simply too difficult to cherry pick the good bits from it while it's radicals maintain their relentless and bloodthirsty agenda.

originally posted by: citizenx1

originally posted by: stargatetravels
Wow just what ATS needs, another stupid, ignorant & absurd thread/post asking for all Muslims to take to the streets and condemn the attacks.

Thanks for that insightful analysis.

Care to explain why you say that or not?

There are dozens of posts and threads saying the same thing and just as many responses saying why it's preposterous to expect all moderate Muslims to come out matching & denouncing it.
Did all moderate Christians come out saying 'not in our name ' when Anders Breivik murdered all of those people, he was a devout Christian and explicitly cited his Christianity as a reason for his hatred and actions.

The answer is no they didn't.

Why start another thread, why not just reply in one of the others and you'll find the responses you require, rubishing and dissecting your 'case' entirely.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: citizenx1

Do I expect people of Islamic nations to say sorry? No. I DO expect them to say "we don't agree with this, it isn't in our name" BECAUSE without such comments, we must conclude it IS something they support.

What they 'don't agree' with is aggressive war being waged in the Middle East by Western Nations in the name of conquest, oil and money, (our God). They been complaining about that forever, something you won't hear much about in the western main scream media.

Pretty arrogant to expect them to 'not agree' with something so small as a few deaths in reprisal for all the West has done to their homelands.

Blaming the victims much?

You know, it isn't very long ago I would have said pretty much the same thing but I think i've explained why my thinking has changed.

Maybe yours will at some point, maybe it won't.

What has to happen before you expect some kind of kinship to be demonstrated?