Europe’s Leading Rabbi: Jews Must Begin Carrying Guns

a reply to: vor78

I actually watched an interesting If disturbing documentary called freakonomics about the drop in violent crime in the states being linked to the row vs wade decision.

a reply to: WilsonWilson

There are a number of factors playing a role, no doubt about it. I don't know about Roe v Wade given that it happened almost two decades before the violent crime and homicide rates hit their peaks.

The Israelis have to take proper action against the Arabs unlike the British with the Irish as their very existence hangs by a thread. How can one compare these two conflicts? Britain isn't surrounded by a billion Irish that have kicked the Brits out of getting on from everywhere they used to live and now make a final stand in Great Bitain. The Irish are never going to beat the British and kick everyone out of the island or execute them. For Israel this danger is real. Remember Stu, one mistake on the battle field by Israel and it's game over for them. Just one cock up and Israel is all over. They have to fight properly. The Irish Republicans are merely a thorn in the side for Britain, they don't threaten our very existence.

The only comparison one can make between Britain and Israel is they are both colonial powers. They planted Jewish, Scottish, English, Russian people to rule over native Irish and Arabs, indeed to replace them as much as possible, wherever possible. Both planted populations still there today

a reply to: stumason

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

You seem to be confusing religions terrorist groups and nationalities. The IRA were not representative of the Irish people. Israel is nor representative of all Jews, Muslim terrorists are not representative of all Muslims.

a reply to: WilsonWilson

Israel was a British mistake one of many our country has made meddling in other lands setting up false countries that have bought chaos to regions

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Bah, again I don't buy the whole "existence" is at stake bollocks.

Jews lived there for centuries without issue. It was only with the creation of the "Jewish" state, the expulsion of the Arab population from their own lands and then the continued annexation over the years of even more land that this problem still exists.

The land Israel was "given" in 1947 is about half what the control now and they still continue to take land off the Arabs for even more settlements. It's no wonder the Arab's are pissed and no wonder the Israeli's fear for their "existence"!

Quite why there had to be a "Jewish" state is beyond me. Why couldn't they just move there and form a normal country with the people who already occupied the land and work together? There was no animosity until Israel was created at the expense of hundreds of thousands of Arabs being turfed from there homes and many thousands more simply being exterminated like vermin.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: WilsonWilson

Israel was a British mistake one of many our country has made meddling in other lands setting up false countries that have bought chaos to regions

A common misconception that us Brits get blamed for - we did not create Israel.

On the contrary, we were under attack from Zionist terrorists for many years (killing many British citizens and soldiers) until we notified the newly formed UN of our intention to terminate the Mandate, at which point the Zionists got even more active and unilaterally declared the Jewish state to be active from 14th May 1948.

At the same time, there was resolutions going through the UN on what to do with Palestine and how to partition it, with the newly declared Israeli state to be based upon the 1947 partition borders, which split the land roughly 50/50 between Jews and Arabs.

It's also worth noting that the partition plan involved the "plan required that the proposed states grant full civil rights to all people within their borders, regardless of race, religion or gender"...

Here is a telling map of how Israel has gobbled up land over the years....

Link to map showing how Israel has grown since 1947.

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: DJW001
Arming everybody does not help decrease violence its the very opposite. Its a stupid argument.

I'm not saying everyone should be armed! I'm just pointing out that:

1) It is reasonable for a Rabbi to suggest that Jews in Europe be armed for their own defense
2) This does not preclude others from also being armed
3) Therefore, this is not an appeal to be "above the law."

What is sad is that so many people are trying to twist this into something that makes Jews look bad.

Exactly the points I was making.

They make the anti-Semitic sentiments and then when they get called on it, try to get out of it.

Really, look at thePopulation of Jews Worldwide, there are only 475,000 in ALL of France, which is only .47% of the population.

Muslim Population in France is 9.6%. Come on, that's is more than double, that is 10% greater than the Jewish population. And 9.6% of Muslims in France, is a big chunk of people.

Really though, that .47% Jews would pose a problem if they had guns to defend themselves?

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: WarminIndy

Another thing that is particularly annoying (and displaying your profound ignorance) is your continued interchange between British and English. The two are not the same.

British is English, Irish, Scottish and Welsh - it is the UK and everyone who resides within.

England is one country in the UK. Singling out one nation amongst four for blame, or to describe historical actions is ignorant, misleading and, as I said above, evidence of your limited view.

I kept saying England because I know England is the country where all of the crap comes from, not Scotland that was forced to be in the UK, not Northern Ireland that was forced to be in the UK and not Wales, that was forced to be in the UK.

Yes, I know exactly what the UK is, but you seem to be very proud of exerting the "British" Identity on subjugated people, even today. Let's see, if the UK kept out of India, you wouldn't have the Indian problem of British Indians, if the UK stayed out of Australia, the Aborigines might be first class citizens in the country they were thriving in before the UK showed up. And if the UK stayed out of China, there would not have been three Opium Wars.

I think it is funny that you guys love Brit Identification so much that you fail to see the horror, the terror, the persecution and the subjugation of people across the British Empire. Then you came here, killed our Native Americans and then left us to deal with the problem, we revolted, kicked you guys out twice and now you seem to still not get the idea that your empire was built on the blood, sweat and tears of subjugated and persecuted slaves around the world.

And then you have a problem with a small population in Europe asking to defend themselves.

The British Empire made second class citizens out of the rest of the world, and then Brits feel like second class citizens in their own country when all these people who are called Brits, come to England and wreak havoc. Yes, Brit means simply someone part of the British Empire, even Muslim terrorists. They might not be English, but they are Brits. How's that for British Identification?

a reply to: WarminIndy

Scotland was not forced to join the UK, they joined for purely financial reasons. Northern Ireland was not forced to join the UK, the hugely protestant population did not want and still do not want to be part of Ireland.
And yes there are British people who are Muslims as there are British people who are Jews and Christian and atheists.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: WarminIndy

Scotland was not forced to join the UK, they joined for purely financial reasons. Northern Ireland was not forced to join the UK, the hugely protestant population did not want and still do not want to be part of Ireland.
And yes there are British people who are Muslims as there are British people who are Jews and Christian and atheists.

Who joined Scotland to the UK?

The Acts of Union 1707, the poet Robert Burns said the Scottish MPs were bought and sold for English gold. Tell us, was it mutually beneficial, or more beneficial for the English?

And as a people, they didn't have a choice, it was decided by just a very few Scottish MPs who then passed through history and died with their pockets full, but England is still enforcing it today. The wars the Irish had with the English were long before the Protestants went to Northern Ireland.

Follow Me Up To Carlow mentions my ancestor Rory Oge O'More. The Battle of Glenmalure is just one of the many times the Irish have said enough is enough, get out of our country. Northern Ireland is still Irish, ethnically and racially even if not religiously or politically.

Perhaps you like whitewashing history?

You have to admit, the Brits under the English have really subjugated most of the world. Perhaps learn a lesson from the Irish, just because you are there doesn't mean it is mutually beneficial. You have the problem now coming back to haunt you, it's like Malcolm X said, the chickens have come home to roost.

OH, the Irish genocide, even the mother of Oscar Wilde pleaded with your English MPs to have mercy on the Irish, because Ireland was not the worst of the potato famine, England just ensured all the food was shipped away, your English landowners were absentees and allowed the Irish to die by the hundreds of thousands while your English ladies were stuffing their faces with blood sausages every morning.

Irish Holocaust

This is what your English government did, not the Irish in the UK, not the Scots in the UK, not the Welsh in the UK, English Brits and those who supported it and those who found something beneficial from it. All the financial problems the UK is facing today is divine retribution for the years of subjugation and persecution of people around the world, from the deepest parts of Africa, to the Crimea, to Israel and Palestine, to the East Indies and Malaysia, to Australia and New Zealand, the world is groaning under the weight of the mighty British Empire that wants to stay English above all else.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Bah, again I don't buy the whole "existence" is at stake bollocks.

Jews lived there for centuries without issue. It was only with the creation of the "Jewish" state, the expulsion of the Arab population from their own lands and then the continued annexation over the years of even more land that this problem still exists.

The land Israel was "given" in 1947 is about half what the control now and they still continue to take land off the Arabs for even more settlements. It's no wonder the Arab's are pissed and no wonder the Israeli's fear for their "existence"!

Quite why there had to be a "Jewish" state is beyond me. Why couldn't they just move there and form a normal country with the people who already occupied the land and work together? There was no animosity until Israel was created at the expense of hundreds of thousands of Arabs being turfed from there homes and many thousands more simply being exterminated like vermin.

Jews lived in Israel for centuries? A few did, not many. Those that did live there were often discriminated against by the Turkish muslim occupiers and the native Arabs.

You ask "why there had to be a Jewish state." Well, it should have been invented in 1918. The vast majority of Jews then were Eastern European Jews. But they never got their state in Eastern Europe following the end of the Austro Hungarian and Russian Empires. The Magyars got a state, the Czechs got a state, the Poles got a state, Austrians, etc, etc, but the Jews never did. When it came to handing out national states why shouldn't they get a state in Europe when everybody else did? There were Jews in Europe before there were Christians afterall, something everybody forgets. Following the Holocaust (which included victims from all the people of Eastern Europe, not only the Jews) there were still mass murders of Jews going on. Thousands died in the late 40's in Europe after the war had finished. The Jews needed a national state. They got one. They are still fighting their war to this day, long after it finished for the UK, Germans, Italians, etc. The state they were given was in the wrong place. A place where the natives would never accept immigrants from Eastern Europe taking a centre of their culture and religion. The war for the Jews is still going on today

a reply to: WarminIndy

OK I might have been able to talk sensibly with you until you started talking about divine retribution, what a load of hogwash, there is not one nation on this earth that has not invaded, annexed or slaughtered others. The UK isn't special.
And why are the subsequent generations of Australian and Americans not as much to blame as you seem to think I am. Their ancestors share the same sins.
And to be Honest I can't stand religious fanatics Like you that blame financial problems, bad weather and helicopters crashes on some vengeful evil god who just wants to hurt people. People get the God they deserve and one like that has nothing to do with normal good people.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Bah, again I don't buy the whole "existence" is at stake bollocks.

Jews lived there for centuries without issue. It was only with the creation of the "Jewish" state, the expulsion of the Arab population from their own lands and then the continued annexation over the years of even more land that this problem still exists.

The land Israel was "given" in 1947 is about half what the control now and they still continue to take land off the Arabs for even more settlements. It's no wonder the Arab's are pissed and no wonder the Israeli's fear for their "existence"!

Quite why there had to be a "Jewish" state is beyond me. Why couldn't they just move there and form a normal country with the people who already occupied the land and work together? There was no animosity until Israel was created at the expense of hundreds of thousands of Arabs being turfed from there homes and many thousands more simply being exterminated like vermin.

Jews lived in Israel for centuries? A few did, not many. Those that did live there were often discriminated against by the Turkish muslim occupiers and the native Arabs.

You ask "why there had to be a Jewish state." Well, it should have been invented in 1918. The vast majority of Jews then were Eastern European Jews. But they never got their state in Eastern Europe following the end of the Austro Hungarian and Russian Empires. The Magyars got a state, the Czechs got a state, the Poles got a state, Austrians, etc, etc, but the Jews never did. When it came to handing out national states why shouldn't they get a state in Europe when everybody else did? There were Jews in Europe before there were Christians afterall, something everybody forgets. Following the Holocaust (which included victims from all the people of Eastern Europe, not only the Jews) there were still mass murders of Jews going on. Thousands died in the late 40's in Europe after the war had finished. The Jews needed a national state. They got one. They are still fighting their war to this day, long after it finished for the UK, Germans, Italians, etc. The state they were given was in the wrong place. A place where the natives would never accept immigrants from Eastern Europe taking a centre of their culture and religion. The war for the Jews is still going on today

Thank you.
Thank you.

People who don't like the Jews will never accommodate or support them a place even though the Jews throughout time have never been made full citizens of any European country they have ever been in, at times it was granted and then swiftly taken away.

And because they didn't have rights to land ownership as other citizens, they had only one industry to fall back on and that was banking. People like to assume the Jews had full rights in the countries they were in, maybe in the UK and definitely in the US today. But historically, that was not the case.

Even the Dreyfus Affair proves how little rights Jews had in Europe.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: WarminIndy

OK I might have been able to talk sensibly with you until you started talking about divine retribution, what a load of hogwash, there is not one nation on this earth that has not invaded, annexed or slaughtered others. The UK isn't special.
And why are the subsequent generations of Australian and Americans not as much to blame as you seem to think I am. Their ancestors share the same sins.
And to be Honest I can't stand religious fanatics Like you that blame financial problems, bad weather and helicopters crashes on some vengeful evil god who just wants to hurt people. People get the God they deserve and one like that has nothing to do with normal good people.

I see, so since you won't take the blame for your persistent benefit today, you are living in England supported now by the money that does come in from subjugation in other countries, still to this day.

But since you don't want to acknowledge God bringing judgement and retribution, then I suppose you only have yourselves to blame.

You are still living off the fruits of labor from someone else really far from where you are, to this day. Think about the next time you eat the curry and drink your tea, and eat your chocolates.

England and the English started the crap with America and Australia, but the thing is, we have dealt with our problem in the US. You haven't and neither does Australia.

And right now, Aborigines do not have full rights and are second class citizens. RIGHT NOW. And you support that?

a reply to: WarminIndy

I'm sorry but are you seriously trying to suggest that The US does not benefit from the Economic imperialism of other countrues, that you political meddling in other countries hasn't caused harm? Where does your tea coffee and curry come from? And the treatment of the aborigines in Australia is awful, but I'm not Australian.
And no I don't believe in a god that would punish people purely for being born in a certain country. If God is going to punish people why doesnt he outright murder those politicians or world leaders why is it always your average man on the street that gets based by a hurricane by some vengeful God. Who wants a deity like that.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: WarminIndy

I'm sorry but are you seriously trying to suggest that The US does not benefit from the Economic imperialism of other countrues, that you political meddling in other countries hasn't caused harm? Where does your tea coffee and curry come from? And the treatment of the aborigines in Australia is awful, but I'm not Australian.
And no I don't believe in a god that would punish people purely for being born in a certain country. If God is going to punish people why doesnt he outright murder those politicians or world leaders why is it always your average man on the street that gets based by a hurricane by some vengeful God. Who wants a deity like that.

Nope, you don't believe in a God that would punish a people for being born in a certain country, but you believe in a government that DOES.

Before you slam down on us Americans again for your Imperialism, let me remind you exactly why we are where we are. The United States has to come and defend your imperialism, that you hide behind pretending that the US is the cause of it all.

YOU and your government have been the cause of the problem for a very long time, much longer than the US has been a country, but since you won't stand up for second class citizens in your own British realm, then you are a hypocrite when you talk about equal rights, demanding it for all people.

If you can't defend the Aborigines of your empire, that you have only known a few hundred years, then why expect you to accept the Jews that England has known for a thousand?

And if you can't defend the Aborigines, then don't be a hypocrite and demand other people take care of theirs. Just because there is a land mass down there that is called Australia means nothing, you and them are THE SAME EMPIRE. OK, so it may be a Commonwealth, but a Commonwealth of (fill in the blank) Countries...right?

Australia is British and English, your cousins, your friends, your people, your commonwealth, so in essence, you and Australia are one and the same, just in different parts of the world. Tell me again how you do not benefit from Australia as you sit in the English rain trying to catch an English tan. Tell us again why you should demand for us to examine ours when you can't do it yourself?

a reply to: WarminIndy

What are you ranting on about? No Britain does not have any control over what the Australian government chooses to do. But when have I ever said that I don't support the rights of aborigines, however coming from the states I don't see how you can comment on the treatment of native peoples, you don't have a great track record yourself.
You dont seem to have great understanding of the world or of have the commonwealth works.
To be honest I don't see how you can sit as an American and criticise the global relationships of other countries you don't have any moral highground.
I don't have any problem at all accepting Jews in the UK, I however do not support concealed carry guns for anybody in this country ever.
And how can I have been a problem for the world since before the US was founded I'm only in my 30's.

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: DJW001

Again, it didn't target "just Jews" but also French soldiers, several of which were of North African Islamic descent.

Those soldiers were killed because they were trying to protect Jews. They were not the primary target.

Tch. Where do you get that from ? If I remember correctly one soldier was shot while off duty and the other was lured into a trap (killer posted an ad to sell a scooter).

They were not "protecting" anybody since they were off duty.

ETA : my bad, somebody already corrected you. My fault for not reading the thread entirely before posting but that BS made me jump

a reply to: Britguy

Umm all Europeans should be able to carry and protect themselves, Jew, Muslim, Christian, Zoroastrian, Hindu, etc.