Scientists Warn: Earth pushed beyond four of nine ‘planetary boundaries’

a reply to: MALBOSIA

This Venus project sounds like the most conformed and centrally controlled management system ever contrived.

The proposal of the Venus Project is to use science and technology to create hyper-abundant resources. To use better materials and processes for architectural and engineering problems. I don't see how aiming to create technology that works symbiotically with nature is a negative thing?

Especially if we are currently destroying the earth.

The Venus Project is more anarchist, their goals are to do away with government altogether. Politicians cannot solve our problems--scientists and engineers can. With that in mind, our most important resource is education.

The only "central planning" tvp has ever proposed was a database that could scan, record, and monitor the various natural resources of our planet. Which is a good idea, because then we'd actually be able to get an accurate estimate of what we have to work with.

"Future by design" ??? That is what we are dealing with right now and the vision of the Venus project sounds a lot like the end game to what we have now. TPTB don't give a crap if we live like this or like that. What they need is to be in control. If the Venus project is going to help sustain their control then TPTB want it.

Have you ever actually read about tvp?? "TPB" are able to control us because of the scarcity of resources. If we used technology to create hyper-abundant resources, what leverage would TPB have to use against us?

Let's say I am an engineer and I figure out an awesome way for people to be able to independentally produce vast amounts of oranges in their own home.

My design is open-source so it can be copied and improved over time by other engineers.

My design produces no pollution, and does the exact opposite by benefitting nature. It actually works symbiotically with nature, so the amount of work required to operate my hypothetical contraption is minimal.

People buy my invention and it's improved with updates by the open-source community which only makes it better over time.

What control has TPB gained over the population? Oranges have become hyper-abundant, people have no need to worry about scurvy, what could TPB possibly use to thwart this microcosm of independence?

The Fransisco guy... is a control freak with pretty pictures that appeal to things you want but I'm almost certain you have been honeypotted my friend.

Why is he a control freak?

We need solutions and his ideas are elegant. Is there something wrong with applying the scientific method to analyze the best way to engineer an entire city that can be upgraded?

Is there something control-freakish about designing better homes that are technologically advanced to be fire retardant and self-sustaining? Because that's what Jacque Fresco is really about, figuring out ways to use technology to make people self-sustaining.

The better capable we are of being able to take care of ourselves on an individual level--the less power TPB have to use fear tactics to control us.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: MALBOSIA

What do you mean?

Well my good member, I guess I mean I only need to imagine
the ideas a group of ultimately rich and therefore ultimately
powerful. And already defined as intelligent human beings
would discuss amonst themselves behind closed doors.
Considering the complete and obvious disregard for morality
that would bring them to such absurd amounts of excess in
the first place. Certain amounts of greed to me are a horrible
crime, when children else where are starving period. Therfore
I do judge them on a personal level. And await the decision
of the ultimate judge. If you follw me?

Well I think that might be where we differ Randyvs. There is no ultimate judge. Just like dreams of the future "the greatest story ever told" just gave us an excuse not to fight for ourselves because god will punish the sinners. Fact is Sinners make things happen and they are not going to stop on gods account.

If I'm following you correctly.

My mom once asked me why non of these crocked politicians never get assassinated. My thought has always been that it takes someone good to see what they are doing is so bad and good people don't assassinate other people. So evil always wins because they are not bound by the restrictions of being good. We know that and accept it because we believe "they will receive judgement". Have they ever?

a reply to: MALBOSIA

You follow me perfctly. And I respect your lack of belief
as much as I can anything that is lacking. But you claim
something in your post you can not possibly know is true.
And that is disrespecting everyone who reads our posts
here-in. Why is it just ok for anyone to write crap they
do not know is true and be taken seriously? Because
it's cool to think like Bill Maher or Penn and Teller, that's
bull####! At least retain my respect for you and revise that
all knowing statement?

Just call me Randy.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: MALBOSIA

You follow me perfctly. And I respect your lack of belief
as much as I can anything that is lacking. But you claim
something in your post you can not possibly know is true.
And that is disrespecting everyone who reads our posts
here-in. Why is it just ok for anyone to write crap they
do not know is true and be taken seriously? Because
it's cool to think like Bill Maher or Penn and Teller, that's
bull####! At least retain my respect for you and revise that
all knowing statement?

I will take it back but with conditions. There is a balancing force but we have yet to write anything that can explain it.
Karma won't save us any more than any other faith and I truly believe the TPTB are taking advantage of the fact that billions of people are betting on being saved or enjoying vindication. You must see how that can be used as a tool of oppression.

I hold no ill will towards your faith. I just don't have any beyond the balancing force that to me is yet to be explained.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Respectful indeed with medals and all types of garnering.


Let's have a beer sometime?

originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon
a reply to: MALBOSIA

This Venus project sounds like the most conformed and centrally controlled management system ever contrived.

The proposal of the Venus Project is to use science and technology to create hyper-abundant resources. To use better materials and processes for architectural and engineering problems. I don't see how aiming to create technology that works symbiotically with nature is a negative thing?

Especially if we are currently destroying the earth.

The Venus Project is more anarchist, their goals are to do away with government altogether. Politicians cannot solve our problems--scientists and engineers can. With that in mind, our most important resource is education.

The only "central planning" tvp has ever proposed was a database that could scan, record, and monitor the various natural resources of our planet. Which is a good idea, because then we'd actually be able to get an accurate estimate of what we have to work with.

"Future by design" ??? That is what we are dealing with right now and the vision of the Venus project sounds a lot like the end game to what we have now. TPTB don't give a crap if we live like this or like that. What they need is to be in control. If the Venus project is going to help sustain their control then TPTB want it.

Have you ever actually read about tvp?? "TPB" are able to control us because of the scarcity of resources. If we used technology to create hyper-abundant resources, what leverage would TPB have to use against us?

Let's say I am an engineer and I figure out an awesome way for people to be able to independentally produce vast amounts of oranges in their own home.

My design is open-source so it can be copied and improved over time by other engineers.

My design produces no pollution, and does the exact opposite by benefitting nature. It actually works symbiotically with nature, so the amount of work required to operate my hypothetical contraption is minimal.

People buy my invention and it's improved with updates by the open-source community which only makes it better over time.

What control has TPB gained over the population? Oranges have become hyper-abundant, people have no need to worry about scurvy, what could TPB possibly use to thwart this microcosm of independence?

The Fransisco guy... is a control freak with pretty pictures that appeal to things you want but I'm almost certain you have been honeypotted my friend.

Why is he a control freak?

We need solutions and his ideas are elegant. Is there something wrong with applying the scientific method to analyze the best way to engineer an entire city that can be upgraded?

Is there something control-freakish about designing better homes that are technologically advanced to be fire retardant and self-sustaining? Because that's what Jacque Fresco is really about, figuring out ways to use technology to make people self-sustaining.

The better capable we are of being able to take care of ourselves on an individual level--the less power TPB have to use fear tactics to control us.

The only real look into the Venus Project I had was through the Zeitgeist sequels. I could not watch them. The only impression I got was "oh great! Trade one totalitarian regime for another only this one is more sustainable" It was like a scene out of "Aeon Flux". I am telling you, that is the end game right there.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: MALBOSIA

Respectful indeed with medals and all types of garnering.

Let's have a beer sometime?

Cheers Randyvs. And I would enjoy that with you a great deal.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon
a reply to: MALBOSIA

This Venus project sounds like the most conformed and centrally controlled management system ever contrived.

The proposal of the Venus Project is to use science and technology to create hyper-abundant resources. To use better materials and processes for architectural and engineering problems. I don't see how aiming to create technology that works symbiotically with nature is a negative thing?

Especially if we are currently destroying the earth.

The Venus Project is more anarchist, their goals are to do away with government altogether. Politicians cannot solve our problems--scientists and engineers can. With that in mind, our most important resource is education.

The only "central planning" tvp has ever proposed was a database that could scan, record, and monitor the various natural resources of our planet. Which is a good idea, because then we'd actually be able to get an accurate estimate of what we have to work with.

"Future by design" ??? That is what we are dealing with right now and the vision of the Venus project sounds a lot like the end game to what we have now. TPTB don't give a crap if we live like this or like that. What they need is to be in control. If the Venus project is going to help sustain their control then TPTB want it.

Have you ever actually read about tvp?? "TPB" are able to control us because of the scarcity of resources. If we used technology to create hyper-abundant resources, what leverage would TPB have to use against us?

Let's say I am an engineer and I figure out an awesome way for people to be able to independentally produce vast amounts of oranges in their own home.

My design is open-source so it can be copied and improved over time by other engineers.

My design produces no pollution, and does the exact opposite by benefitting nature. It actually works symbiotically with nature, so the amount of work required to operate my hypothetical contraption is minimal.

People buy my invention and it's improved with updates by the open-source community which only makes it better over time.

What control has TPB gained over the population? Oranges have become hyper-abundant, people have no need to worry about scurvy, what could TPB possibly use to thwart this microcosm of independence?

The Fransisco guy... is a control freak with pretty pictures that appeal to things you want but I'm almost certain you have been honeypotted my friend.

Why is he a control freak?

We need solutions and his ideas are elegant. Is there something wrong with applying the scientific method to analyze the best way to engineer an entire city that can be upgraded?

Is there something control-freakish about designing better homes that are technologically advanced to be fire retardant and self-sustaining? Because that's what Jacque Fresco is really about, figuring out ways to use technology to make people self-sustaining.

The better capable we are of being able to take care of ourselves on an individual level--the less power TPB have to use fear tactics to control us.

The only real look into the Venus Project I had was through the Zeitgeist sequels. I could not watch them. The only impression I got was "oh great! Trade one totalitarian regime for another only this one is more sustainable" It was like a scene out of "Aeon Flux". I am telling you, that is the end game right there.

Exactly Aeon Flux, all of the futuresque movies, like: The Giver, Divergent, etc...showed very well fed, organized, controlled populations, not my idea of fun. I want to be free, not contained in a walled community of automatons. Next we will all be wearing the same clothes and have the same hair cuts, no way I will not participate. I love the quote from the controller and chief elder - Meryl Streep on the movie "The Giver" she stated that humans left to make choices for themselves will always choose wrong! Shows what the PTBs think of their underlings. I know its only a movie, fiction mirrors reality at times.

a reply to: mc_squared

Looking at the who's who of who is in charge of science these days in the USA - not promising...

Sometimes the only thing I can think to say is: we had a good run

It's sad that we're the earth's poison. I don't think we ever meant to be.

We progressed extremely fast over the last 100+ years and we had no idea how to have fun (term used loosely) and preserve the world at the same time before it got too late.

We might not be the final nail in the coffin for this planet's cycle. We might get hit by something from "out there" or... anything else beyond our control.

But as some people have already said. This planet can do fine, if not 100000 times better without us.

a reply to: SlickMcFavorite

Beautifully expressed and at the very least 90% true... I have a vision of cooperation, planning and sustainable high-tech that melds us into the natural environment with a minimal upset of the wonderful, intricate natural balance... with all the same toys and conveniences but none of the pollution or unbalance.

As for the part of your views I disagree with... well, Game of Thrones is pretty good entertainment.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

The only real look into the Venus Project I had was through the Zeitgeist sequels. I could not watch them. The only impression I got was "oh great! Trade one totalitarian regime for another only this one is more sustainable" It was like a scene out of "Aeon Flux". I am telling you, that is the end game right there.

I told you what their actual aims and proposals are and you countered with your subjective feelings. You didn't even try to refute or argue against any of my claims, you just completely sidestepped them in favor of your subjective feelings.

How can you say you've never researched tvp, and then claim to know which direction tvp is headed??

Answer my question:

Let's say I am an engineer and I figure out an awesome way for people to be able to independentally produce vast amounts of oranges in their own home.

My design is open-source so it can be copied and improved over time by other engineers.

My design produces no pollution, and does the exact opposite by benefitting nature. It actually works symbiotically with nature, so the amount of work required to operate my hypothetical contraption is minimal.

People buy my invention and it's improved with updates by the open-source community which only makes it better over time.

What control has TPB gained over the population? Oranges have become hyper-abundant, people have no need to worry about scurvy, what could TPB possibly use to thwart this microcosm of independence?

We (humans) are truly our very own worst enemy... Not extreme weather, not asteroids, not alien invasions (for those who believe).. WE are the problem... For being such a brilliant/intelligent species, we truly act like we have the brain of an early caveman at times...

We know the problem, we know what must be done, but we continue along the path....

Do you know what this sounds like? It sounds like a freaking drug addict... A drug addict that can't help putting the needle into their arm, even though they know it's slowly killing them..

We need an intervention... But how? How do you execute an intervention on 7+ billion people? It almost seems impossible...

I'm up for all possible solutions and ideas, but we live in a very selfish world where everyone wants short term satisfaction without caring about the long term ramifications that come along with it..

I am disappointed in mankind...

a reply to: TM62

Exactly Aeon Flux, all of the futuresque movies, like: The Giver, Divergent, etc...showed very well fed, organized, controlled populations, not my idea of fun. I want to be free, not contained in a walled community of automatons. Next we will all be wearing the same clothes and have the same hair cuts, no way I will not participate. I love the quote from the controller and chief elder - Meryl Streep on the movie "The Giver" she stated that humans left to make choices for themselves will always choose wrong! Shows what the PTBs think of their underlings. I know its only a movie, fiction mirrors reality at times.

You're totally just making things up.

Using science and technology to solve problems and to create true individual independence is the exact opposite of what TPB want--and exactly what the Venus Project proposes.

How is creating technology that works symbiotically with nature anything like living in a dystopian future where the government uses technology to abuse people?

The Venus Project is an anarchist movement.

originally posted by: roadgravel
The earth will keep on revolving, with or without, the life form called Human. That issue is up to humans.

The answer (in context to the thread, of course) to the riddle 'If a tree falls in a forest...' - is irrelevant, since there will be no-one around to hear it...(the answer, or someone to tell it to)...

Å99

originally posted by: Miccey
The human race is a cancer...
We were not supposed to stay
here this long..
We were meant to spread out
in the universe, just like we
have done on the planet thruout
history. Religion and money made
that impossible, the only way to
save us now is to BAN both...

Agreed.

Another way to see it is like this: If we are making the planet unsustainable for us, then we don't belong here.

The planet may become inhospitable for us, but it will still live on.

If we don't have the intelligence to be able to survive on that which gives us life, what does that say about us?

Staying humble to the point where we stay on the level of nature itself seems to be a concept that is beneath most people.

Our egos make it to where we just can't seem to get out of our way for our own damn good.

All these juxtapositions and contradictions confuse the hell out of people when the answer is simple. The smartest people on the planet are most humble and simple. They know that we can't out-smart or out-gun the planet we live on. We must play by the rules called the natural order of things. We are not in charge. Never have been......never will be. If we can't accept that, we need to leave.

originally posted by: TM62
I love the quote from the controller and chief elder - Meryl Streep on the movie "The Giver" she stated that humans left to make choices for themselves will always choose wrong! Shows what the PTBs think of their underlings.

I also remember a movie. Can't remember the name of it, but it was one of those current Jesus movies. I also don't know if this scene was historically accurate. I'm pretty sure it was though based on the decisions we currently make.

In it, Jesus was presented to the crowd alongside a convicted murderer. There was one cross left and the leader of the community, or the land or whatever, gave the crowd a choice as to which one should be nailed to the cross: Someone, a local man, whom people knew murdered other people, or this outsider who did nothing but talk about love and peace.

We all know what the outcome was. The leader just stood back, shook his head and couldn't believe the decision the populace made. The leader and the populace each saw a different threat to the community.

Like it or not, we still do that. We make the wrong decisions. Maybe......just maybe, if we all started to shift our focus to things more positive and beneficial to our own race, our leaders might start having respect for us. We may be on different sides of the fence in regards to who controls who, but we all have children that we tuck into bed at night. All things being equal.

originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon
a reply to: MALBOSIA

The only real look into the Venus Project I had was through the Zeitgeist sequels. I could not watch them. The only impression I got was "oh great! Trade one totalitarian regime for another only this one is more sustainable" It was like a scene out of "Aeon Flux". I am telling you, that is the end game right there.

I told you what their actual aims and proposals are and you countered with your subjective feelings. You didn't even try to refute or argue against any of my claims, you just completely sidestepped them in favor of your subjective feelings.

How can you say you've never researched tvp, and then claim to know which direction tvp is headed??

Answer my question:

Let's say I am an engineer and I figure out an awesome way for people to be able to independentally produce vast amounts of oranges in their own home.

My design is open-source so it can be copied and improved over time by other engineers.

My design produces no pollution, and does the exact opposite by benefitting nature. It actually works symbiotically with nature, so the amount of work required to operate my hypothetical contraption is minimal.

People buy my invention and it's improved with updates by the open-source community which only makes it better over time.

What control has TPB gained over the population? Oranges have become hyper-abundant, people have no need to worry about scurvy, what could TPB possibly use to thwart this microcosm of independence?

That guy claims to be a social engineer. I heard it come out of his mouth. "Social engineer", but a good one, trust you?

No thanks.

I say he is a control freak because he his high on himself and his inventions. He likes to give out his credentials.

What sort of economic system would allow that to happen and still have someone hurd the turd out of buildings, mop the floors or do the heavy labour.

Basically you sound like you are saying that we should give up politicians and business men for scientists and engineers but the dictatorships and social tiers will remain.

Anarchist? I don't think so. You believe too heavily in science and technology and I do not believe you that they have the answers to anything but how to exact more control.

How do the powers to be stifle clean energy and manufacturing? The same way they have been doing it forever. Competitive markets. How do you plan to keep other smart people that do not share your opinion on sustainability from swaying people to use their less clean and sustainable technology? Are you going to have storm troopers to arrest anyone that does not follow the scientists an engineers dictation of what is "better for us". ?

originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon

How is creating technology that works symbiotically with nature anything like living in a dystopian future where the government uses technology to abuse people?

The Venus Project is an anarchist movement.

How can you possibly know that? You or any other scientist or engineer does not have a clue about what mother nature can live with.

I thought there were rules against recruiting on this site.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon

How is creating technology that works symbiotically with nature anything like living in a dystopian future where the government uses technology to abuse people?

The Venus Project is an anarchist movement.

How can you possibly know that? You or any other scientist or engineer does not have a clue about what mother nature can live with.

I thought there were rules against recruiting on this site.

I'm sorry, but you are really bad at reasoning.

Scientists and engineers can easily devise tech that works in sync with nature. Like solar panels or wind turbines.

Also, I am not recruiting, I put forth an argument and you have done a poor job of offering a counter argument. Unless you count logical fallacies and subjective assumptions as sound counter-arguments.

I take it you do not work in any STEM field?