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Scientology? I want ATS opinions

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posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 11:07 AM
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Hi,
I'm a new member here. I was interested to read this discussion of Scientology. I have been a scientologist for some decades, and am in fact a
"apostate" oir "Squirrel" scientologist. In fact we refer to those doing scientology outside the Church of scientology as "The Freezone."

It was interesting to read the viewpoints people have on this subject outside iether critical forums, of those for adherents of the philosophy.

Many find the COS not so user friendly, and they appear motivated by money primarily nowdays.

However the philosophy and the "self help" technology is workable. As someone commented , common sense. However to apply it well one needs at least some training. This training can be quite extensive, however one
can do what started the whole movement. Read "Dianetics Modern Science of Mental Health" and just do what it says in the book. Our organisation will hopefully be doing a correspondance course on this soon.

If anyone has any questions i'd be happy to answer them. Below is
one of our websites with links to other freezone sites.


www.freewebs.com...




posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by Tartessian
Hubbard was associated for a time with Jack Parsons, a rocket propulsion researcher at Caltech and associate of the British occultist Aleister Crowley.

Ok, so for a little while hubbard knew a buy who had at one time known aleister crowley. How does that make Scientology masonic?


described as a synthesis of various Eastern mystical systems (including Hinduism, Buddhism, Tantra the predecessor to Western Sex Magick, Zoroastrianism and the many systems of Yoga) fused with the Western Occult Sciences of the Golden Dawn and the many reformed rituals of Freemasonry he later reformulated within the Ordo Templi Orientis (O.T.O).

Well, keep in mind that the wikipedia is something that has random authors contribute information to it, iow its doesn't get its facts checked or edited authoratatively. And this is sayin that Hubbard was a member of OTO, when was this?



Scientology just a wacky religion?

recommended read:
en.wikipedia.org...

Yes, I am aware of the zanieness invovled with xenu and all the rest. Like a said, just another wacky religion.







[edit on 16-12-2004 by Nygdan]



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 01:45 PM
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Maybe thats why Travolta and Cruise use it, to better there acting skills. Being audited helps with opening up and being able to express your emotions and feelings, Travolta is supposed to be a lifetime member so I bet thats how hes so good at acting. Same with Cruise.

I am reading the book now, "what is scientology". So far it is very interesting, kinda like a phsycology book is. I guess the only thing I am still curious about is the whole xenu thing. We need one of those upper level scientologists to explain him on thin thread, that would be sweet!

I want to know more of what the high level members know!



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 03:01 PM
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Does anyone have any info on the COS Sea Org military, i have been to Saint Hill Manor where the COS was started and saw them in their uniforms.

Saint Hill Manor



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by Termite197
Travolta is supposed to be a lifetime member so I bet thats how hes so good at acting. Same with Cruise.

Were they infact memebers before their careers took off?


I am reading the book now, "what is scientology". So far it is very interesting, kinda like a phsycology book is.

But the psychology behind it, especially 'engrams' in bunk. It isn't 'merely' that engrams get implanted when you are unconsious. For example, fetus in the womb of its mother, who has an abusive spouse, who forces the mother to have sex and beats here and says 'take that, take it', will grow up with a 'take that, take it' engram, and thus become a compulsive theif. The idea of the subconcious haveing important effects is one thing, and its generally known. Hubbard made up this whole 'psychologizing' thing, in Dianectics and the whole Scientology cult, thats just bunk. He wasn't a psychologist, he was a moderately popular sci fi writer, except that his sci fi turned literally into the religion, with other dimensional aliens control people are whatnot.



I want to know more of what the high level members know!

Thats the idea of a mystery religion. Like the Elusian mysteries and other ancient mystery religions. You don't know until you get initiated, its a process, you have to participate. WIth the Scientologists however, you have to pay, pay, and pay. Movement to higher levels are predicated upon paying for them. Being 'audited' requires payment. Becomming 'clear' requires payment, and then after that, there are more engrams that are 'new' or the next level. There's definitely a scam to the organization. THe beleifs, like I said, are loony, just like any religion, but the org is definitely bilking people.


kode
Does anyone have any info on the COS Sea Org military

A paramilitary cult


"The Deputy Inspector Generals who head the IG Network which locates and handles infiltration and suppression in Scientology "



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by kode
Does anyone have any info on the COS Sea Org military, i have been to Saint Hill Manor where the COS was started and saw them in their uniforms.


I think not even many Scientologists know much about the Sea Org. I do know that, initially, it really was on a ship and they really did sail all over the place. I don't think that's the case anymore.

Here's a link to a "historical" review of the Sea Org. Note that it's on xenu.net, which is probably enemy #1 to the Scienologists, and should certianly be taken with a large grain of salt. Pretty grim reading, all in all, and I have no idea how much of it is accurate.



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 04:09 PM
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Thanks for those links. I can assure you that in 2002 i was at Saint Hill Manor and Sea Org is still very operational. When i entered the building it was plain to see these people were very motivated.

The people I saw in the Manor werent your average dragged of the street looking kind of people. The people i saw in the Manor looked educated. They were up to something. Very fit and smartly dressed. Quite intriguing.

They also own some very nice houses and apartments close by.



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 05:00 PM
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KODE said,

Does anyone have any info on the COS Sea Org military, i have been to Saint Hill Manor where the COS was started and saw them in their uniforms.

TERRIL
The COS was started in 1954 in the USA. Possibly in Phoenix. It was partly that giving counselling needed licences, qualifications and so on,
whereas a religion didn't. One didn't need first a degee in psychology, a
subject scn is much at odds with.


Also it was found that when one asked for earlier incidents in dianetic
auditing, people would go apparently into past lives, and get benefits from doing so. Thus it would seen one was dealing with the spiritual nature of man.

The Sea Org, was started in mid sixties. LRon Hubbard bought some ships, sailed to the mediterranean with the newly recruited members of the SO.

The whole of scientology was run from these ships, and also upper levels
were researched then and delivered only on the ships. I'm not sure why
LRH decided to do this. The COS PR is that he needed a calm environment
to do this research and delivery. Some have suggested that He was running ahead of potential problems with governments, authorities.

It is the case that severe and at that time mostly unjustified attacks were made on scientology. However, its my view that it was mostly troubles
that COS created for themselves. The first big problem was the Anderson report in Australia. However LRH has written that this was initiated by the
refusal to refund a dissatisfied customer. This was against COS policy.

Then there was the "ban" on scientologists coming to UK to study scn in 1968. This was overturned some years later after much effort by COS.
Also it seems behind all this the americam medical association had initiated attacks on scientology. They have a history ofattacking anything non mainstream that promised cures and help. The pharmaceutical industry is involved here also.

Currantly the Sea Org, is the upper management of the COS and controls it all. There are many upper level organisations that are made up of SO members.

The very top management level is headed by David Miscavidge . It is widely thought in the freezone that he lead a a takeover of the COS. Some consider that the COS is now controlled by the IRS. Some think that the intelligence
services took over the COS after the remote viewing successes at the Stanford institute. Those involved were all scientologists who had done
upper levels,Inigo Swan, Pat Price etc.

So! I guess on topic. Conspiracies galore.



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 05:41 PM
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I stand corrected, i was lead to understand by the English scientologists i met that Saint Hill was the home of COS and was its main HQ. Although i now know that Hubbard was the son of an American navel officer and was born in Nebraska. So it seems you are possibly right TERRIL.



posted on Dec, 17 2004 @ 12:50 PM
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KODE said,
I stand corrected, i was lead to understand by the English scientologists i met that Saint Hill was the home of COS and was its main HQ. Although i now know that Hubbard was the son of an American navel officer and was born in Nebraska. So it seems you are possibly right TERRIL.
TERRIL
You are in fact correct, but using out of date info. St. Hill was the main headquarters in the sixties, and as LRH lived there and all highest level courses and auditing was only available it was "the home" of COS.

Thus the UK "ban"on scientologists coming to UK to study was a serious problem.



posted on Dec, 17 2004 @ 01:04 PM
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TERMITE said,

It seems very interesting to say the least but at the same time very strange. Like the galactic alien that supposedly ruled the six planets and killed everyone with the h-bomb in the volcanos? I mean what the frick?
TERRIL

That story is indeed very strange. I don't know if its true. It was in fact about trapping and implanting beings, not killing them. An immortal spititual being can't be killed, but can be confused, mystified and controlled. So
goes the theory and that does seem common sense.To me anyway.

I have done some of these upper levels. Despite not committing to believing this story I can say they worked magnificently. They have also worked for everyone I know who has done them outside the C of S.

There are some ex COS members who now decry this spiritual technology.

Its my opinion that this is primarily due to various problems internal to COS. The organisation. Not to the philosophy itself.



posted on Dec, 17 2004 @ 04:01 PM
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Does anyone know how much it costs to be audited? I mean how does a broke man get audited? Do they base the amount on your income or anything?

I want to experiance an auditing session so how do I go about doing it? The god I always knew wouldnt charge me anything neither would my old pastors.



posted on Dec, 17 2004 @ 11:18 PM
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I can't imagine the Co$ having auditing fees on a sliding scale
They will however, let you work off your debt to them.

If you are indeed serious about wanting to take some of the courses, I would suggest it might be better to hook up with some freezoners, and talk to them about your interest. If you can get an fz to audit you, it will be a lot less expensive. Perhaps Terril Park could provide you more info about this?



posted on Dec, 18 2004 @ 04:48 AM
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Having experienced both in and out of the philosophy I can say that it does work. regardless of what anyone says Ron Hubbard said and regardless of who he was 'seen with' .

These are quite immaterial. Many people say many things and people are often seen with other people. Does not mean anything.

Someone mentioned that because the quote attributed to Ron Hubbard was seen in five different areas that must make it true.

That is like saying if you post the same lie on three different forums it must be true.

I have been in the same room with a British Prime Minister. It means nothing. So have thousands of other people. Not the least are other Pollies.

Being in the same room does not prove any agreement unless you desire it to prove agreement.

Not that the Church is the bees knees,. It is not. Since the 'Palace Revolt after the demise of Ron Hubbard the Church has deteriorated from the high ideals Ron held, to a monopolistic money machine.

Most of the true adherents who follow and practice the original philosophy do so in the Freezone. a collective name for Scientologists who have broken away from the Mother Church in disgust.

So the applied philosophy is alive and well outside the Church. And not expensive!

It is a philosophy Ron had intended anyone could use.

The important thing is, does it work?

Well...yes, it does. But to appreciate that one has to stick ones toes in the water.

Dark Angel



posted on Dec, 19 2004 @ 12:16 PM
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To get auditing in the Freezone can be done at around $60 per hour.
This would be from someone highly trained over many years. Its much cheaper than in COS.

One could get cheaper auditing, and even free auditing has been offered from student internes.

I'm afraid Termite I don't know an auditor in Tennessese. Anyone who's interested is welcome to mail me at

basic2basic@yahoo.com

and I could introduce them to hopefully a local auditor.



www.freewebs.com...



posted on Dec, 19 2004 @ 12:50 PM
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Scientology=Bogus

First off, all L. Ron Hubbard was in real life, before he proclaimed himself a prophet of the New Age, was a second rate science fiction author.

Second, anyone who has spent any amount of time hanging out with Aliester Crowley (except Jimmy Page and Anton LaVey, but hey they were on drugs) loses credibility in my book.

I read somewhere that Scientology was the result of a bet between L. Ron Hubbard and Bill Burroughs to see who could create the first successful religion. This would make sense to me, since these two characters were known to have raided (with permission) the trunk of good ol' Hunter S. Thompson on occasion with their mutual friend Alan Ginsburg.

Besides, any religion that was founded by someone who eventually shoots themselves in the face in a drunken stupor probably isn't really worth what you paid for the dogma. (read: Dianetics). Then again, it could be argued that Jesus committed suicide too. And funny that his "Father in Heaven", that no one else could see, told him to. Hmmm...

These beatnik clowns were all so high on absinthe and ether, not to mention '___', PCP, THC, Mezcal, and any other false prophecy creating substance that it is really a wonder to me that people with right minds would follow them. Nay, worship them, as some still do to this day.

Timothy Leary, another loser with friendships all based purely on drug use and the intense premise of promoting it, did more to destroy the intellectual fabric of this great country than any other individual, with the possible exception of Geraldo Rivera, another pot-head.

Maybe it was the drug revolution that made Scientology all possible. Maybe it was drugs that made Christianity all possible for that matter. Jesus, we all know the greeks were getting off on ergot on a regular basis. They were high. The perfect excuse for relativism, I guess. Thanks Socrates, you're a pal. Really. Stoner.

I just can't believe people could be so easily duped by all these people who were ripped out of their gourds most of their lives. Maybe if we all did drugs like these ones did, we might not be so gullible. Or maybe we'd all just sit around a fire and deliberate to no end or purpose.

I know, I'll take a bunch of drugs, just like everyone else who has had a hand in the manipulation and subsequent control of the masses, create my own religion, and throw a big PARTY!!!

Free Kool-Aid for everyone. BRING THE KIDS!

Stupid, stupid, stupid.



posted on Dec, 19 2004 @ 01:10 PM
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The scientology thing looks like a souped up ACN Multi Level Marketing scam, where a thousand succers pay for the succes of a dozen men on top of the foodchain.

In fact Tom Cruise/Travolta might gotten financial kickbacks from the highpriest because they are celebrities helping to sell cans of thin hot air, or maybe it was necessary careermove because some financers/movieproducers allready have bought themselves in the network?


[edit on 19-12-2004 by Countermeasures]



posted on Dec, 20 2004 @ 01:54 AM
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I mean how does a broke man get audited?


There is much that one can do, both to discover for themselves whether or not this stuff works, and to generate personal enhancement, without spending much money at all, just the cost of a few used books from Amazon or e-bay.

Some key books are Dianetics:Modern Science of Mental Health (currently available from various Amazon resellers for 39 cents!); Science of Survival ($8); Dianetics: The Original Thesis (76 cents); Dianetics: The Evolution of a Science ($2.25); The Problems of Work ($3.39); Self Analysis (89 cents).

There's an big advantage to buying used books, anyway: the church has altered some of the works (a la King James, I guess), so it's worth finding the earliest printing you can.

And as already mentioned, the freezone is a soucre of huge amounts of (free) information.

I like what Dark Angel said: "...one has to stick ones toes in the water."




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