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Scientology? I want ATS opinions

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posted on Dec, 14 2004 @ 04:15 PM
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I have recently been doing some research on Scientology and I am really curious of what everyone on ATS thinks about it.

It seems very interesting to say the least but at the same time very strange. Like the galactic alien that supposedly ruled the six planets and killed everyone with the h-bomb in the volcanos? I mean what the frick?

Why would people like Tom Cruise and John Travolta be members for such a long time. It seems to me that there has to be something special about it all wouldnt you think. I am going to the Church of Scientology in Nashville tonight to watch the orientation video. I will be back tomorrow to give my thoughts on it.

I have heard that scientologists get mad when you mention things that may discredit them so I plan on asking some questions so see what they say. I am going to ask about the Lisa Mcfearson lady that died and about the alien.

Anyways.....very interested in hearing your thoughts!




posted on Dec, 14 2004 @ 04:26 PM
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I work in the Scientology capital of the US...i.e. Clearwater, FL.

First, it's pretty much a cult. It has every single earmark of a cult, with the exception of not being as closed off from non-scientologists (that are family).

Second, it's basically amateur psychobabble from a Sci-Fi writer (and a mediochre one at that). Some sects even combine some of the sci-fi into the religion!

Third, the base idea is that EVERYTHING bad in your life happens as a result of a bad experience during an unconscious moment. This is said to leave an engram in your mind which holds you back from success. The goal is to become a "clear" (i.e. free of engrams), through (of course), nice expensive classes in Scientology and Dianetics. (no doubt which the stars take quite often, and are likely more or less pricey praise sessions).

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. If you doubt me, check out a copy of Dianetics. Read the first three chapters. I say this because the others are pretty much repeats of all of that,



posted on Dec, 14 2004 @ 05:28 PM
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This pretty much sums up my thoughts about Scientology. Very informative site: read well before you consider joining.

[edit on 14-12-2004 by Kakugo]



posted on Dec, 14 2004 @ 05:29 PM
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Personally, I find the CoS kind of scary. I became interested in what they taught, after hearing a fellow name Gerry Armstrong on a call-in show where I live. What grabbed my attention was that he was being sued for $10,500,000 by the 'church' for violating an agreement where he is fined $50,000 every time he speaks against them. Right then and there I had to know these secrets that are worth over 10 MILLION dollars. So off I went searching, and what I found was disturbing to say the least. Here are a couple of links to look at as it is always best to have too much info than not enough.

Gerry Armstrong's site

Operation Clambake

In the interest of fairness, I will provide a scientology version of the Gerry Armstrong story

Religious Freedom Watch - Armstrong

I wonder if this is enough to label me an 'SP'?



posted on Dec, 14 2004 @ 05:36 PM
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Like every religion, its a cult that offers promises of clearity and inner peace through expensive means to grab money. The entire concept was written by an author, and caught on as a religion.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 10:58 AM
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Well guys, I spent 2 hrs looking for the place and could never find it. It really erked me to cause I live like 60 miles from where its at. Anyways....I am going to try again tonight after I print directions off mapquest. I will be back to post my experiance.

I wander what they will say when I ask them about the galactic alien, since its supposed to be a secret for only the higher level scientologists to know. Anyways...sorry for the delay of topic.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 11:35 AM
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That book was called 'Dianetics', The Modern Science of Mental Health' byL. Ron Hubbard.

www.clambake.org...

Then there's 'The Scandal of Scientolgy' by Paulette Cooper.
...
I think this will give you a good read. You could just go to the 'conclusion' chapter....


www.clambake.org...



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 11:46 AM
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The United States government regards Scientology as protected under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution; other countries, notably in Europe, have regarded Scientology as a potentially dangerous cult and have significantly restricted its activities at various times. In Germany for instance, they are not seen as a religion by the government but as a financial organization.


The Church takes an extremely hard line on breakaway groups, labeling them "apostates" (or "squirrels" in Scientology jargon) and often subjecting them to considerable legal and social pressure.

en.wikipedia.org...



Could it be that these fellows are linked with the Freemasons and the Jews/Zionists?


The Satanical side to it, as put forward by some people vaguely reminds me of German Satanists, who i personally basicly associate with ugly old fat guys excuse of a cult for having intimate contact with confused young girls.

Hum.. but they do have a Hollywood link , so perhaps this is some kind of perverted/financial thingy?

Squirrels?.. what's next? calling Ratatosk to someone who deserts the cause?


I think these people should all be lined up on a wall and shot.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by Termite197
I have recently been doing some research on Scientology and I am really curious of what everyone on ATS thinks about it.

It seems very interesting to say the least but at the same time very strange. Like the galactic alien that supposedly ruled the six planets and killed everyone with the h-bomb in the volcanos? I mean what the frick?

Why would people like Tom Cruise and John Travolta be members for such a long time.

Well, besides that there's no reason to think that movie stars are any more or less rational than regular people, I get the impression that Scientiology, being a 'un-revealed' or 'mystery' religion, appears rather normal to people at first. What I mean is that they hear about it and get interested and check it out and find out that its not all that whacky or zany and that lots of the introductory stuff is common sense. But the real strangeness, the aliens from another dimension, the b/s psychologizing, engrams, the Sea Org military, and becoming 'clear' and the rest, come in later levels that people at lower levels aren't aware of.



It seems to me that there has to be something special about it all wouldnt you think. [/quote
Why? Becuase its popular? By that reasoning there is something special about britany spears, ok, something that is special about her singing abilities and musical talent. THere isn't. Doesn't require much to be popular.


I am going to the Church of Scientology in Nashville tonight to watch the orientation video. I will be back tomorrow to give my thoughts on it.

Should be interesting to hear your thoughts.


I have heard that scientologists get mad when you mention things that may discredit them so I plan on asking some questions so see what they say. I am going to ask about the Lisa Mcfearson lady that died and about the alien.

Ask them who has acheived "clear" status and why people can have all their engrams removed and then have to have more removed. Ask them why anyone should beleive the silly idea of 'engrams' anyway, assuming they even still promote that stuff. Ask them about what happened in North Africa with the Postal Service (I think it was morroco or something). SHould be interesting to hear their statements on some major criticisms.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by Tartessian

Could it be that these fellows are linked with the Freemasons and the Jews/Zionists?

Er? What? How would one be linked to 'the jews' anyway? Hubbard wasn't supposed to be a mason, jew, or zionist, and he created it, so why even think that they've got any connection?


I think these people should all be lined up on a wall and shot.

What? They're just a wacky religion. In all honestly their wackiness isn't any more bizzare than any other religion. I think that their management are frauds and that their claims are baseless, but why the hell should they be shot?



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 03:19 PM
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Hubbard was associated for a time with Jack Parsons, a rocket propulsion researcher at Caltech and associate of the British occultist Aleister Crowley.
en.wikipedia.org...

His system of Occult Sciences is best described as a synthesis of various Eastern mystical systems (including Hinduism, Buddhism, Tantra the predecessor to Western Sex Magick, Zoroastrianism and the many systems of Yoga) fused with the Western Occult Sciences of the Golden Dawn and the many reformed rituals of Freemasonry he later reformulated within the Ordo Templi Orientis (O.T.O). This system later discussed is founded in scientific skepticism.
en.wikipedia.org...

Scientology just a wacky religion?

recommended read:
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 04:48 PM
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A quote attributed to Ron Hubbard

"Y'know, we're all wasting our time writing this hack science fiction! You wanta
make _real_ money, you gotta start a _religion_!" This according to Theodore Sturgeon, famous science fiction writer. Apparently it was said at a science fiction convention.

Next we have the same type of quote attributed to Hubburd by Lloyd Arthur Eshbach, another science fiction writer.

I think of the time while in New York I took John W. Campbell Marty Greenberg, and L. Ron Hubbard to lunch. Someone suggested a Swedish smorgasbord, and I had my first--and last--taste of kidney. Yuck! Afterward we wound up in my hotel room for related conversation.

The incident is stamped indelibly in my mind because of one statement that Ron Hubbard made. What led him to say what he did I can't recall--but in so many words Hubbard said:

"I'd like to start a religion. That's where the money is!"

These quotes and a few others are documented on the following web site:

www.planetkc.com...

But anyway, sounds like he did quite well going through with his dream.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 05:05 PM
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is scientology the religion where the members refuse to seek medical help fom doctors?



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 05:26 PM
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"Y'know, we're all wasting our time writing this hack science fiction! You wanta
make _real_ money, you gotta start a _religion_!"


That quote was never proven. Hubbard never admitted to it, and apparently no one else who was there ever confirmed it. That's not to say he didn't feel that way; he did, after all, start a religion and make a pile of money.


is scientology the religion where the members refuse to seek medical help fom doctors?


Nope, that's the good ole' Jehova's Witnesses...nutcases. Whatever Scientologists may be, they're not nutcases.

Scientology is largely misunderstood. It's based on some pretty sound principles, and I can say from personal experience that much of it is highly effective.

It's not even particularly cultish, although anytime you get involved in a group that has defined principles & procedures & has it's own lingo, it can seem hard to leave.

I don't want to turn this into an advert (I'm not even a member), but if anyone wants to know more just U2U me.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 05:28 PM
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i'm just rired of the scientology people in my city asking me to take surveys!



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 05:30 PM
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i'm just rired of the scientology people in my city asking me to take surveys!


How do you think I feel? I used to be one of those people doing the asking!!



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 05:33 PM
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so what is the survey thing about????? not on my lunch break!!!! i always tell em no thanks,but hubbard was a heck of a sci-fi writer.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 09:45 PM
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The quote I gave was mentioned by 5 seperate sources, publications in the link I gave, mostly biographies of the sources in question as they were famous sci-fi writers. Isn't 5 seperate published sources at least a decent authentication and why would he admit to saying it later in life now that people are taking the organization he founded seriously. It would be a ha ha I gotcha type thing and I don't think many would be very happy. Yes I realize that he can't now sine he's dead, though I guess if he did all the more credence to his cause.



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 09:02 AM
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OK.....So I finally made it up there last night at about 8:30 pm. The first thing that I noticed was how small the building was. It didnt look anything like a church, just a little house or something, really old at that. When I walked in there was nobody in sight so I looked around at all the books and things they had for sale. I had no idea that Hubbard wrote so many books. A lot of them were about the same topic just different titles.

When you first walk in the front door there is a little room to the right that has a tv with a dvd player, and a little bench in front for two people to watch the orientation video. Then they had book shelves all around the room with all the sale items.

Then this middle aged man with a suit walks in. He was looking at us with this really weird look. Like in aahhwww to see us standing there. Maybe it was the way we looked. I am 24 yrs old and my friend 27 yrs old, both with a few tatoos, and some facial hair. Plus my friend is licenesed to carry a gun and had it on him. You could see it hanging out his pants.

Anyways.. He sat us down to watch the movie, and said that "it would take about ten minutes to get through the first video". What I later found out was that he started us off by watching the Dianetics video, which took exactly 45 minutes. It was intesting but all common sense.

I have come to the conclusion that scientology and dianetics are just really self help programs that teach people how to teach themselves how to live a better more healthy stress free life. The techniques used obviousley would work if the person is willing to follow through.

So when the movie ended at about 9:20, he came back in the room and asked if we liked it and if we had time to watch the scientology video. I told him that the movie was interesting but not what I came to see, I wanted to see the scientology video. He said that if he only new, I cut him off and told him that it was supposed to be 10 minutes though right? ANyways I asked if I could purchase the book and how much it was. Well the paperback book that they said would be $6.99 was actually $26.99, so I told him that I would just get a copy on ebay. I think he got mad at that but damn that was a lot for a paperback book.

Anyways the whole thing boils down to; If you need help to straighten your life up because you are not strong enough to do it yourself, like smoking, drugs, alcahol, and exercise, then scientology might be able to help you but anyone with self control can help themselves as long as there willing to follow through.

They say that during auditing the auditor gets the emgrams out of your mind by making you go over all the bad incidents in your life over and over. So the more times you go over it the more comfortable you will be with talking about the incident, witch is obvious. After so many times of going over it the one getting audited is able to smile and laugh while describing it. It all makes sense but people can do that with friends, and family, like a wife. Why do they need to pay money for help like that, especially if the auditor doesnt have a degree in psychology.

One thing I want to mention though, I did not have to sign any agreements or anything at all for that matter before I did the orientation. I heard that some make you sign you rights away of some kind so you cant sue but I had nothing of the sort.

WOOAAAH work is calling. bbs



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 09:12 AM
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There are different programs basically.

For example, here in Sci town USA, there are hotels in downtown Clearwater owned by them. Some of the younger recruits (the one's most often on the street corners), are in effect housed and employed by the "church". They get housing, food, etc. in exchange for their duties, and often may be hired by other members of the church into gainful employment.

The amount of networking involved is somewhat amazing here.

I suppose such an opportunity is actually a pretty good deal, if you can put up with the psychobabble, for those of limited means and prospects.

Just not my cup of tea.

As you mentioned, one with enough self awareness should be able to do all of this for themselves with the help of family and friends.

Perhaps this is why so many stars are into it... It makes up for the lack of TRUE friends (due to their celebrity) and family, and offers an outlet for getting it out, while not having the public press embarrassment of going to a shrink....


[edit on 16-12-2004 by Gazrok]



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