Pegida Marches - Germany

Pegida marches: 25,000 join anti-Islamification protests in Germany following Paris attacks

Germany's growing anti-Islamic protest movement registered its largest attendance on Monday with 25,000 supporters turning out in what organisers described as a tribute to the victims of the terror attacks in Paris.

It is now spreading to other nations.

Anti-Islamist PEGIDA surfaces in Switzerland

PEGIDA, or "Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamisation of the Occident" have been gathering traction for some time. This is an article from 15th Dec. 2014

Estimated 15,000 people join ‘pinstriped Nazis’ on march in Dresden

However in light of recent events in Paris it would appear they are becoming more vocal and as such gathering an increasing amount of support.

Pegida

Pegida was founded in 2014 by Lutz Bachmann, who runs a public relations agency in Dresden. Bachmann has said that his impetus for starting Pegida was witnessing a rally by supporters of the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) in Dresden's Prager Strasse district. His reaction was to start a Facebook group opposing arms shipments to the PKK

I believe we are seeing a dangerous rise of facism once again in Europe as we have already witnessed with the rise of Greece's Golden Dawn.

a reply to: Dabrazzo

The forces of reaction must be opposed, both Western and Muslim. It is imperative that immigrants learn to integrate themselves into their newly chosen society, and for that society to aid them in doing so, rather than rejecting their presence.

a reply to: DJW001

Very few countries take the time to invest into social integration programmes, I know Norway is one such country that takes education of integration very seriously. Most other European nations simply dont seem to bother.

originally posted by: Dabrazzo
a reply to: DJW001

Very few countries take the time to invest into social integration programmes, I know Norway is one such country that takes education of integration very seriously. Most other European nations simply dont seem to bother.

So European taxpayers should pay for aid to any number of foreign countries.... Then they should pay to house, clothe and feed immigrants.... and then they should pay for their healthcare, education and job training. And then they should pay for integration and cultural understanding classes as well...

Did I miss anything??

It's amazing how easy it is to spend OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY isn't it?



.

a reply to: 8675309jenny

Then they should pay to house, clothe and feed immigrants.

No, Monsieur Hammer, they should provide a suitable education, which will lead to gainful employment and less cultural friction. Immigrants are generally willing to take less desirable jobs for less pay than natives, who tend to be jaded and lazy. Do you really want to be a bus-boy, or would you rather have an Algerian teenager do it?

a reply to: Dabrazzo

Hold your horses... there is no "new rise of fascism" in Germany.

While it is true that "PEGIDA" had an estimated maximum of 30.000 people total partaking in their demonstrations,
the "NoPEGIDA"-counter-demonstrations at the same time rallied about 102.000 people to the streets, composed of a broad coalition of citizens from the political left to right.

I just posted this in another thread:

originally posted by: ColCurious
It is important to notice that Conservatives here in Germany are not at all "anti-islamic immigration", and I believe this is true for Consevatives in Europe in general. The extreme right wing is.

Conservatives here know (and commit to the fact) that our nation is a secular state with freedom of religion as a guaranteed constitutional right, and that a islamic part of 5% of the population is not *Überfremdung*.

a reply to: ColCurious

Why is it 100,000 people would rally to counter something that doesnt exist?

a reply to: 8675309jenny

Id rather they spent the money on helping people better understand the culture they will now find themselves a part of as apposed to say spending taxpayers money on bombs that kill people instead.

a reply to: DJW001

The forces of reaction must be opposed, both Western and Muslim. It is imperative that immigrants learn to integrate themselves into their newly chosen society

Islam does not integrate into western society. Even moderate Muslims are very insular and dismissive of other cultures.
How would you suggest integrating sharia law into the values of a western system for example?

Multiculturalism, at least in terms of Islam - is a failed experiment. Personally i support the aims of Pegida wholeheartedly..

No i am not a racist, just a realist. If they keep trying to force Islam down our throats, there will eventually be a terrible backlash.

originally posted by: Dabrazzo
a reply to: ColCurious
Why is it 100,000 people would rally to counter something that doesnt exist?

Because Germans deeply internalised the saying:

Principiis obsta (et respice finem).

"Resist the beginnings (and think about the outcome)"

a reply to: ColCurious

Sounds like denial to me mate, I watchd a lot of the bundesliga and it seems to be more and more of there teams Ultras are nothing more than fronts for Nazi movements, becoming increasingly more open about it too. And with Ukraine recently falling to fascists and Nazi's appearing even in Spain in greater numbers it quite worrying.

originally posted by: ColCurious
a reply to: Dabrazzo

Hold your horses... there is no "new rise of fascism" in Germany.

While it is true that "PEGIDA" had an estimated maximum of 30.000 people total partaking in their demonstrations,
the "NoPEGIDA"-counter-demonstrations at the same time rallied about 102.000 people to the streets, composed of a broad coalition of citizens from the political left to right.

Those numbers are total MSM bullsht. The Pegida march yesterday had over 40,000. And perhaps the total anti-PEGIDA demonstrations around germany totalled 100,000, but no single one was that large.

The media are now desperate to show anything but the reality that Germans are absolutely FED UP. The media stammers on with its multiculturalist, marxist agenda because they would rather convince average Germans that their fellow Germans are their enemies, than to acknowledge the truth that their fairytale multiculturalist utopia is a MASSIVE FAILURE.

a reply to: Dabrazzo

Denial would be if no one would take to the streets when Neo-Nazis and the extreme right are marching, mate.

Also, I happen to know (or used to know) Cat.B-C Ultras and Hools, and the majority (in most clubs) want the Nazis out of the scene.

You're making the same mistake as the extremist on all sides: generalizing whole groups because of a (albeit loud) minority.

There is nothing wrong with being worried though. Vigilance is needed.

Here is actually a really well-written piece from DailyMail (gasp!) : www.dailymail.co.uk...
A few quotes:

But their most pressing complaint is that their traditional Teutonic values and culture are being swept away on the biggest tide of immigration since the Sixties, when Turks arrived in their tens of thousands to rebuild post-war Germany.

Still petrified by the merest hint of nationalist sentiment 70 years after the fall of the Third Reich, most politicians and media outlets have sought to besmirch and ridicule Pegida at every turn, depicting them as neo-Nazi thugs and xenophobes.

Yet their father, a computer game representative who would only give his first name – Jens – was determined his children should march with him as the great populist backlash against radical Islam shifted from Paris to the eastern-most fringes of Europe.

‘I brought them to show that you don’t have to be a racist to be worried about the dangers of immigration and religious fanatics,’ he told me, as the throngs swelled around him.

‘The politicians and the Press say the organisers of this march, and everyone who attends it, are bigots, but it isn’t true. I am an ordinary family man, and I have many Muslim friends. But enough is enough.’

The people I met repeatedly stressed that they were not against immigrants or immigration, per se. Indeed, they said that migrants were welcome provided they wished to assimilate – to adopt the German language and customs, and live by its rules and morals.

By the same token, one man told me it was ‘time for ethnic Europeans to reclaim our birth-right ... time we remembered that Germany was our country first, and if people wish to live here they must adapt’.

Elsewhere in the city, a few thousand people staged a protest against Pegida. But those who spoke at the larger rally were clear about their right to speak out.

In her address, one of the organisers, middle-aged mother-of-three Katrin Oertel, said: ‘We have our right to express our sympathy with Paris. We aren’t radicals or fanatics, we are a citizen’s movement.

‘Fanatical Islam has brought terror to Europe. We are going on the streets of Dresden for the 12th time; we are growing every week. We have a right to express our opinion and that’s what we’re going to do.’

a reply to: 8675309jenny

First off, let me say that I'm very sceptic towards our MSM, or any MSM anywhere for that matter.
I also don't endorse the so-called multiculturalism, and I'm a critic of our current integration and immigration policies.

The thing is... whoever pursues political change has to stick to the facts.
Talking about *Überfremdung* (like PEGIDA does), and marching side by side with Neo-Nazis is the wrong way and doomed to fail. Especially in Germany.

I've seen my fair share of protests when I was younger, and let me assure you: the relatively small group of protesters affiliated with PEGIDA, HOGESA and other groups of the extreme right (even if it was 40k at once) wouldn't stand a chance if they met their radical counterparts on the streets.

TL;DR: This movement certainly does not represent "ze Germans" and is more harmful than helpful to a real conservative political change.

originally posted by: Dabrazzo
I know Norway is one such country that takes education of integration very seriously.

HA! Norway is so lax and the govt has no proper system in place to make sure immigrants are taking their 'mandatory' language lessons. They just move to Grønland so they dont have to integrate.

Pegida is right that Sharia isnt for Europe, but wrong that their fascism should replace it.

originally posted by: Ridhya

Pegida is right that Sharia isnt for Europe, but wrong that their fascism should replace it.

Exactly.
We don't need extremists from either side.
What we need (in serveral European nations) is a serious and thorough debate about immigration-laws, and how to reform and enforce them.