Losing marijuana business, Mexican cartels push heroin and meth instead

originally posted by: nOraKat
Rampant hard drug use may be a reflection of the health of our culture.

Maybe, maybe not. However, you can't legislate a sick culture healthy.

legalise all recreational drugs. sayonara drug cartels. et voila!

originally posted by: RoScoLaz4
legalise all recreational drugs. sayonara drug cartels. et voila!

But what happens when they attack "legal" sources?

a reply to: pl3bscheese

You don't want to prove me wrong because YOU are wrong. However, I DO want to prove you wrong. So here we go, my evidence:

Ten Years After Decriminalization, Drug Abuse Down by Half in Portugal

“There is no doubt that the phenomenon of addiction is in decline in Portugal,” said Joao Goulao, President of the Institute of Drugs and Drugs Addiction, a press conference to mark the 10th anniversary of the law.

The number of addicts considered “problematic” — those who repeatedly use “hard” drugs and intravenous users — had fallen by half since the early 1990s, when the figure was estimated at around 100,000 people, Goulao said.

What part of a decrease by as much as 50% is statistically insignificant to you?

originally posted by: xuenchen
" Losing marijuana business, Mexican cartels push heroin and meth instead "

Let's hope "legalization" doesn't create a Cartel War like in Mexico.

Mexican drug cartels are worse than ISIL

piss-poor planning by the U.S. lawmakers could be dangerous !!

Careful who you trust.

Drugs are illegal in Mexico as are guns. Obviously neither sets of laws do anything. Our black market is what keeps the cartels in business and flush with cash to buy stuff like rocket launchers and police chiefs and politicians. It goes away and the cartels lose power.

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: RoScoLaz4
legalise all recreational drugs. sayonara drug cartels. et voila!

But what happens when they attack "legal" sources?

Were there running gunfights between Coors and Budwiser after the end of alcohol prohibition?

Who was supplying the narcotics in Portugal before they were legalized? Honest question...

Portugal does not have the tumor that is Mexico supplying about half of all the illegal narcotics in the US. Demographics and dynamics of an economy can have huge impacts on the legalization process.

If a kilo of coc aine can be bought for $2000 dollars and sell for between $30,000 to $100,000 dollars depending on how its broken up then you better believe the cartels will cause bloodshed if their operations were disrupted. Anyone who thinks otherwise better have some good evidence why that would not happen.

Has anybody forgotten the bloodshed that has already taken place near our borders? My guess is they would not hesitate in bringing the fight onto American soil. Then what? These people aren't pushovers.

America NEEDS criminals to function. It's woven into our corrupt system. "El Chapo" is considered second to Bin Laden, but you don't see us going after him do you?

a reply to: eisegesis

Why does it matter where the illegal drugs came from? The fact of the matter is they were imported into the country and illegal drug organizations distributed them to the masses. The price is irrelevant since it is determined by the import. If the cost of import is high, then the cost of doing the drugs is higher. But that doesn't mean that people won't chase their fix.

By the way, the reason the cartels are so powerful in mexico is because of us. America fuels the cartels through large amounts of money and through the escalation of force fighting the authorities, they have grown increasingly violent. Nothing we are doing currently against the cartels is working. Oh except one thing, which you highlighted in your op.

The biggest question, if making drugs illegal isn't working, WHY do you resist trying something new so badly? It's not like the war on drugs is suddenly going to turn around and rid the world of drugs tomorrow, a month from now, or even years down the road. All that happens is that the problem just keeps getting worse and worse and worse. Then we try to fix all the new problems it creates (like a huge influx of illegal immigration from people fleeing the violence) while not addressing the root causes. It's like America has HUGE blinders on to the giant elephant in the room. All to demonize evil drug users.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Why does it matter where the illegal drugs came from?

It absolutely matters. A country who supplies less than a quarter of another country's illegal narcotics but has to travel across hemispheres to deliver it cannot compare to a country that supplies about half of another country's illegal narcotics and is joined by a large land border. Not to mention the population difference of about 300 million.

The price is irrelevant since it is determined by the import. If the cost of import is high, then the cost of doing the drugs is higher. But that doesn't mean that people won't chase their fix.

I disagree. Keep in mind the cartels have struggled lately due to legalization in the states. To offset this cost, not only do they focus on importing a greater amount of narcotics, they don't bring down the costs to reflect import prices unless they are trying to tap into a new market. At this point, costs will remain high no matter the cost of import to offset the hit they've taken. The market is small but expensive. Importing marijuana was probably the least expensive to accomplish and is likely how they were selling it so cheap and wide spread.

The biggest question, if making drugs illegal isn't working, WHY do you resist trying something new so badly?

I hope I don't come across that way. I'm trying to be levelheaded and entertain both sides of legalization. The only point I'm trying to hit home is that the US in not Portugal and what worked in one country might not work in another. We can't even tolerate race or religion as a nation and I'm not sure if legalization should come before or after we learn to behave. Yes these gripes only belong to a portion of this country. But you've heard the saying, "It only take one to ruin it for the whole". American politics pride themselves on fixing problems that just don't seem to exist. They fan the flames until there is an excuse to put out the fire.

I wanted to address this as well that you stated earlier.

You are pushing propaganda and with your "infected drug user passing out on benched crap". Opiate use is through the roof right now. How often do you see drug users passed out on benches right now?

I don't know ask Sweden how it worked out for them. And this was only an "experiment". Currently, Sweden has some of the harshest drug laws in Europe. Either the people weren't ready for such a huge responsibility or the country purposefully botched the study.

In 1987 Swiss officials permitted drug use and sales in a Zurich park, which was soon dubbed Needle Park, and Switzerland became a magnet for drug users the world over. Within five years, the number of regular drug users at the park had reportedly swelled from a few hundred to 20,000.

The area around the park became crime-ridden to the point that the park had to be shut down and the experiment terminated.

Can we learn from our mistakes? Should we give it another try?

I still think so, but what works for one might not work for another. Societies across the world evolve at different rates and should conduct their own experiments accordingly and not based off studies from another country. From another US state? Maybe...

oxycodine is a whole nother ball game, Perks all those opiate drived drugs. People who do them arnt going to go rushing out to buy Heroin. Or people on Methadone. The drugs themselves are addicting.

I'm sure if they outlawed all pain meds than the case in which Hs use would explode would occure but that isn't something that will happen because 1. Nobody wants a 6-12 hour high unless its a pill giving it to them. No one wants to get charged holding H either.

People who do pain meds won't get in trouble for taking their meds. But could lose everything, their house, Their blank criminal record. And could end up in the state Pen. Which is something you wouldn't i or anyone should want.

Heroin isn't really something we the people should worry about to much. The police however are gunna have to stop the shipments of H simply because it is a revenge action now. Rather than a push for profit.

But as for Meth. Some of that cartel meth will see better sales for sure.

There's lots of meth addicts in America. But more importantly. Meth is sold as MDMA many times as concerts festivals or any gatherings that last more than 1-2 days. People also try to buy MDMA and get meth a lot of times. But now its more common to get people trying to sell bathsalts in place of MDMA.



So the meth will be more of a problem. Because it will be marketed not as meth to non meth users. It will be sold as something else.

a reply to: eisegesis

Can you please define what you call a cartel?

It has become a word associated with 'evil doers' in today's society. The drug trade is fueled by US interests. Legalize drugs and it is not the Mexicans who are involved in the drug trade who is hurt the most.

a reply to: AnuTyr

False.

In Florida we are seeing a major comeback in heroin. It is speculated that this is largely because a dose of heroin is cheaper on the black market that a dose of oxycontin.

originally posted by: eisegesis
I hope I don't come across that way. I'm trying to be levelheaded and entertain both sides of legalization. The only point I'm trying to hit home is that the US in not Portugal and what worked in one country might not work in another. We can't even tolerate race or religion as a nation and I'm not sure if legalization should come before or after we learn to behave. Yes these gripes only belong to a portion of this country. But you've heard the saying, "It only take one to ruin it for the whole". American politics pride themselves on fixing problems that just don't seem to exist. They fan the flames until there is an excuse to put out the fire.

This is faulty reasoning. The laws are working in Portugal. The laws aren't working in the USA. To me that is good enough reason to try it anyways. And again, we DO have precedent for actions such as this in this country. We had Prohibition. All you have to do is look at all the consequences of Prohibition and how many of them were solved when we legalized alcohol again.

There is no logical reason why what is working in Portugal wouldn't work in the USA.

Were the cartels the reason why we decided to do legislative gymnastics in order to criminalize the possession of an inanimate substance that grows naturally the world over?

Again, I have read the Salazoa cartel owns the coal operation from mine to truck to port in at least one Mexican state and coal sales have eclipsed their drug profits some time ago. Others are following suit. Maybe they are tired of being the tool of their neighbors rogue government factions.
Either way, I hate legalization talk, it legitimizes a whole body of unlawful statutes. Even if "legalized", unless we admit that we never had the authority to steal jail and kill over a plant, freedom loses.

Does anyone know how the fed usurped this authority? I do. It all started with prohibition , and machine guns. They were not made illegal, they couldn't be made unlawful, but they could be taxed, and if there were no one to take the tax, and no tax stamps to prove it, de facto prohibition. With regard to hemp, many corporate interests were looking for a method to legislate away the competition, and the machine gun tax stamp set an acceptable precedent.

Texta reply to: eisegesis

Legalize all drugs just like Portugal did. Then the Cartels would have nothing to send over the border.

a reply to: Swills

They'd just move into more Human and Organ Trafficking and other Nefarious Schemes, that's what they'll be doing. They will find a way to survive whatever The US Gov. throws at them to put them out of Business. IMHO Arjunanda

originally posted by: arjunanda

Texta reply to: eisegesis

Legalize all drugs just like Portugal did. Then the Cartels would have nothing to send over the border.

a reply to: Swills

They'd just move into more Human and Organ Trafficking and other Nefarious Schemes, that's what they'll be doing. They will find a way to survive whatever The US Gov. throws at them to put them out of Business. IMHO

Arjunanda

They have already done this. But it is the coal business, not human and organ trafficking. They have enough money to more or less go legit. Thanks to our prohibition, and black budget deals. Those planes bringing troops to Afghanistan weren't coming back empty. poppy poppy poppy

Still if you do believe they are evil and not just a pawn in a profiteers game, then your defeatist attitude is alarming.

Interesting. So then, if we legalize heroin and meth, what then will become of the cartels?

a reply to: ISawItFirst

Marijuana is illegal for many reasons (and all of them the wrong ones), but I'm not sure that any of them are what you just said.

Why is Marijuana Illegal?

Many people assume that marijuana was made illegal through some kind of process involving scientific, medical, and government hearings; that it was to protect the citizens from what was determined to be a dangerous drug.

The actual story shows a much different picture. Those who voted on the legal fate of this plant never had the facts, but were dependent on information supplied by those who had a specific agenda to deceive lawmakers. You’ll see below that the very first federal vote to prohibit marijuana was based entirely on a documented lie on the floor of the Senate.

You’ll also see that the history of marijuana’s criminalization is filled with:

Racism
Fear
Protection of Corporate Profits
Yellow Journalism
Ignorant, Incompetent, and/or Corrupt Legislators
Personal Career Advancement and Greed

The cartels didn't exist until after drugs were made illegal.