I'd Like To See Your Debunker Credentials, Please.

originally posted by: amazing
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True, but then we can have the discussion of how life got from Earth to Mars or Mars to earth. And then we can have the discussion about if a meteor from earth got to Mars, where else might it have sent life, or did life start in another solar system and impact earth or mars. Again, fascinating discussions.

Absolutely concur. I've watched the idea of planet-to-planet meteor travel run from impossible heresy [1980's] to possibility [late 1990s] to established fact [today]. Mars-to-Earth is far easier dynamically, and Mars was 'habitable' half a billion years earlier than Earth, so the odds are that IF life arose there, it would have seeded Earth, not vice versa. Mars meteorites would also have reached Venus [before it got too hot] and the outer planets and moons, but would have needed atmospheres for survivable braking. Once would have been enough.

originally posted by: JimOberg
... Mars-to-Earth is far easier dynamically, and Mars was 'habitable' half a billion years earlier than Earth, so the odds are that IF life arose there, it would have seeded Earth, not vice versa. Mars meteorites would also have reached Venus [before it got too hot] and the outer planets and moons, but would have needed atmospheres for survivable braking. Once would have been enough.

Once may have been enough, but personally, I want there to have been more than one genesis of life in our solar system. That would be a huge indicator to me that life is extremely common in the universe -- that the genesis of life is a common thing.

The one place I hope life is found is Titan. Life on Titan may be so different than life on earth that it may have have required its own genesis. However, it is also possible that life found on Titan may be extremely similar to life on the very early Earth, when the conditions on Earth were just as toxic (relative to our life today) were just as toxic as the conditions on Titan.

I suppose that could mean that even very strange life we may find on Titan today came from the same starting point of our current life on Earth.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Puppytoven
Comedian Russel Brand sums it up by saying, "My cat doesn't believe in the internet. That doesn't mean there is no internet."

If cats are truly unable to comprehend, and therefore don't believe in the Internet, and we're the cats in that scenario, what makes you so special? Why are you the cat who believes in the Internet?

This is going to sound incredibly insulting but I really don't mean any disrespect. What makes me so "special" is that I have an open mind for starters. Life is more than what we say it is and I accept that. And I've also read enough about the principles involved to be able to apply them. What makes me so special? Chance. What makes me so special? I don't approach the subject in a confrontational manner. Which is how you came off right then.

I don't know you and am not claiming to know anything about you but that mindset reminds me of what Frank Lloyd Wright says about the common man verses the uncommon man.

"It's getting to the point where" he said... "Well, what's the punk got we ain't got? He's just got the breaks that's all." Now that's going to ruin the common man, because the uncommon man is his vision. And I believe what you call the common man is what I call the common man, a man who believes in nothing he can't see, and he can't see anything he can't put his hand on. He's a block to progress."

a reply to: Puppytoven

I found this post of yours interesting. It gave me the impression you'd seen something and were looking for answers about what it was.

So I went to your profile and looked at the threads you'd started. What did I find? A lot of pictures of clouds. Impressive-looking clouds, in some cases, but just clouds — in which you claim to be able to see eyeballs gazing at you and 'interdimensional beings' that are 'both here and not here' at the same time. Red alien eyes stalk you in the dark. Aliens talk to you, stalk you in gangs, trying to intimidate you. And doctors told you that you were 'not schizophrenic'. Not just one doctor, you say, but two.

And the proof of all this? Photos of clouds. Just photos of clouds.

I think I understand you a little better now, and no longer feel annoyed by your demand for 'debunker credentials'.

To others on this thread: I think a little compassion is indicated here.

a reply to: Astyanax

No. Please explain it again.

originally posted by: Puppytoven
No. Please explain it again.

It was explained extremely well. But if you didn't understand that, I know a guy who has magnetic bracelets for sale that will cure any disease, improve your virility and stamina, give you longer life, and make your 8.5 inches of wit into 9.5 inches. Have you got an open enough mind to be interested, or are you a skeptic? And if you're not interested in that newfangled magnetic technology, I think he has some good old-fashioned snake oil for sale too, with similar properties...whatever you want it to do, it will do. For some reason though, nowadays people hear the term "snake oil" and they tend to get skeptical. But I haven't figured out if you're one of them "skeptical" types or not. You don't have "doubts", do you? If not, you're the perfect mark, er, um, I mean customer for that guy's magic magnetic bracelets.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

And then we have these guys. The scared suburbanites pretending to be patriots. What are you going to do when one of your kids ends up like me? A son or daughter who's too scared of being reported to share anything with you. I myself wouldn't be able to sleep if I smothered my kids soul and replaced it with "the program."

***ATTENTION***

The topic is the qualifacation of those debunking or disproving claims made in OP's. Please return to the topic and stop the interpersonal bickering and name-calling.

Thank you.

Hefficide

originally posted by: Puppytoven
I myself wouldn't be able to sleep if I smothered my kids soul and replaced it with "the program."

So if I warn my kids that there may be scam artists out there making false claims about "snake oil" that they should be skeptical of, and may need some debunking, I'm smothering their soul and replacing it with "the program"?

I just want them to apply critical thinking to be able to decide for themselves what claims are credible, what claims aren't credible, and what claims need further research. I see it as the opposite of smothering their soul, more like setting it free to question everything to arrive at the truth.

These two videos discuss some helpful skills which I'd like them to acquire, to help them figure out the truth for themselves:

Open-mindedness


Critical Thinking

a reply to: Puppytoven

I have logged in just to add my pittance, in reality I could have just starred Hefficides post on the first page and be done, however...

Having had no conclusive personal experience regarding ET visitation I have to rely on others contributions. Over many years following the phenomena here on ATS the posters I have come to rely on are the "debunkers", I have learnt a great deal from them and have watched as they have been insulted and abused, called shills and all manor of obscene names. Incredibly they have stayed and I imagine others have benefited from their expertise as have I... please dont leave.

I want to believe , in fact , as I have a limited skill set in ... well most things... I have to rely on who I find most credible. These Debunkers here give me that reliability and back it up. They are the ones who provide multiple links, in depth analysis and stick around to back themselves up. Others call them names and offer nothing except their own belief, and we all know how flawed those can be.

I didn't read past Hefficides post , will go and do so now... the sentiment that debunking should be all of our default position is one that has been reinforced in me over years lurking here.

Do I believe we are being or have been visited , no.
Do I think I may be wrong, absolutely.

A STAR to all you debunkers out there, some have disappeared, many have stayed... we need you.

Good question Puppy. Its so easy to berate a possible ufo sighting or video, that some people gravitate to that ability to crush. Its easier to destroy than create, so weak minded people can participate in intellectual endeavours. For example, the "chinese lantern" simple solution to all the bright orange red orbs that have been seen all over the country. Anything orange and flying is automatically a lantern to some people, regardless of lumens, speed, trajectory.

Anyway to debate is healthy, its the right way to resolve these differences of opinion on controversial matters. I just hope we all agree that alien life is abundant out there, and are simply debating how far we are spread out. There is too much math against the probability that we are alone, and The Wisest Species of All.

I just think it's again the essence of ignorance when a "debunker" or "skeptic" says emphatically...there was no advanced civilization on Mars...ET has never visited earth...there is no God...there is no life after death...

No keep in mind, you should be skeptical of such claims and you should teach your children to be skeptical, yet...

We know so little...There are some really odd anomalies on Mars that do look artificial and statue like...we should want to look closer at this and take a better look. There really could have been an ancient civilization on Mars. No proof yet, of course, but some intriguing anomalies and theories. - We don't know what happens after death...we really have no idea. We know so little. It's not beyond the realm of possibilities that there is life after death. - The Big Bang...but what happened before that??? That's the real question...and that's mind blowing! Was there a God who set that off? Was it the by product of a multiverse or other Universes colliding or what? - A debunking will say there is no proof of anything, so you're wrong. The skeptic will say, interesting, let's investigate it further until we find the truth, with an open mind. Bring me more data. - ET visiting earth? The debunking will say no...it's impossible. That's the wrong statement. It should be, I haven't seen the proof yet, but it could be possible if a civilization was centuries or millennium more technologically advanced than us.

a reply to: amazing

just think it's again the essence of ignorance when a "debunker" or "skeptic" says emphatically...there was no advanced civilization on Mars...ET has never visited earth...there is no God...there is no life after death...

I think the only one that is falsifiable is the "Advanced Civilization on Mars" though some believe in Atlantis still(?). I think that's the issue. The existence of God and the afterlife is really a philosophical debate but I don't think you can logically deduce the non existence of God.

As far as ET visitation I think that is possible but none of the evidence is credible to me. I don't think you can deduce that its impossible.

The people screaming "rock" for every "anomaly" on mars are probably right though its sort of like screaming "I'm not going to win" right after I buy a lottery ticket.

originally posted by: amazing
I just think it's again the essence of ignorance when a "debunker" or "skeptic" says emphatically...there was no advanced civilization on Mars...ET has never visited earth...there is no God...there is no life after death...

Please copy and paste the posts in this thread in which people you label debunkers have said those things because I must have missed those posts. What skeptics have said is there is no evidence proving that those things have occurred. Do you understand the difference?

a reply to: Tangerine

That is true. its been said so many times now that I'm starting to believe some cranky old man has been willed into existence who says all these whacky things in a secret part of the forums. But I like amazing because he doesn't call me silly names.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: amazing
I just think it's again the essence of ignorance when a "debunker" or "skeptic" says emphatically...there was no advanced civilization on Mars...ET has never visited earth...there is no God...there is no life after death...

Please copy and paste the posts in this thread in which people you label debunkers have said those things because I must have missed those posts. What skeptics have said is there is no evidence proving that those things have occurred. Do you understand the difference?

I don't want to detour the thread, but I'll take a risk of a slight detour. Do you think it's possible that ET could visit earth?

Well nevermind, I don't really want to derail the thread and don't have the time or analytical/research skills to site all the instances. It does happen though, you have to believe me! LOL You know it's especially true on the Anomaly threads. I think, I could be wrong, that you mentioned one of the reasons that ET it's unlikely to have visited the earth is because of the great distances they would have to travel, not taking into account that an Alien civilizaion could be Billions of years more advanced than us.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: amazing
I just think it's again the essence of ignorance when a "debunker" or "skeptic" says emphatically...there was no advanced civilization on Mars...ET has never visited earth...there is no God...there is no life after death...

Please copy and paste the posts in this thread in which people you label debunkers have said those things because I must have missed those posts. What skeptics have said is there is no evidence proving that those things have occurred. Do you understand the difference?

I don't want to detour the thread, but I'll take a risk of a slight detour. Do you think it's possible that ET could visit earth?

Does this mean you are unable to find any such quotes?

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: amazing
I just think it's again the essence of ignorance when a "debunker" or "skeptic" says emphatically...there was no advanced civilization on Mars...ET has never visited earth...there is no God...there is no life after death...

Please copy and paste the posts in this thread in which people you label debunkers have said those things because I must have missed those posts. What skeptics have said is there is no evidence proving that those things have occurred. Do you understand the difference?

Thanks for posting this point, Tangerine.

So many times when (for example) I mention in a discussion that I don't see enough evidence to say there is life on Mars, I get asked "why don't you think there is life on Mars?", to which I need to answer, "Personally, I think there may be life on Mars; however, I haven't yet seen enough evidence for me to say it is a fact".

It's as if I'm somehow betraying my belief that Mars may harbor life -- or even betray that life itself -- by not believing in it more easily, as if what I believe is important to that life. I got news for those people: If life on Mars exists, it really doesn't care whether I believe in it or not.

The same goes for alien visitation. I personally think alien visitation is possible (it is within the realm of possibility), but I don't think the available evidence is compelling enough. People don't seem to understand the difference.

It gets worse when someone says "I don't think there is enough evidence to say aliens are visiting Earth", and someone else on the thread invariably adds "how can you believe that we are alone in the universe?", as if that's what the first person even said.