Gun owners - Have you apologised for a spree killing recently?

As a responsible gun owner, I do apologize for things like in the OP.

I also carry a knife with me all the time, so any time somebody is stabbed I apologize for that, too.

As a responsible toaster owner, I apologize to anybody who's toast gets burned by an over active toaster.

I send a fruit basket to every person who gets into a traffic collision, as well.

Finally, as a responsible non-golfer, I apologize any time somebody gets struck by lightning while golfing, has a heart attack, has a business deal fall through on the links, or can't finish their round for one reason or another.

That's just part of being responsible, isn't it?

You know what....

I have done some thinking on this thread.

I think the OP is actually making a valid point, its just that its not be articulated as well as it could have been in the OP.

People demand to know "why more Muslims don't speak out" after a attack like the one in France, yet some of these same people get their panties in a twist every time there is a major shooting in a Americans School, panicking that they might lose their precious guns. Like it or not probably very similar to the guns that just killed all the kids in that very same school, they do not even entertain the idea that guns might be part of the problem and stand up and say something about fixing a perceived "gun problem" rather they rush to defend the guns. Just look at any ATS thread after a major shooting for proof of this.

Yet after a terrorist attack some of them (again not everyone) will claim that Islam is the problem and more Muslims should be standing up to say something.

Its a little hypocritical.

Like i have said though the comparison between the two, guns and Muslims, is flawed

yet I do understand, i think, the message behind the OP.

Im a gun owner and I think if you did the research lawful gun owners typically aren't the one's going around killing people. Criminals will always get guns illegally if they want them.

Gun ownership is a responsibiity that most take seriously. All the anti gun peeps fail to realize that there are going to be some situations where a gun is the best legal way to defend oneself. I have no problem with the anti gun folks not bearing arms.

I don't have one ounce of desire or need to apologize for my right to protect myself.

Laslty guns are used for more to protect the innocent then to willfully harm others in the process of being a criminal.


www.gunowners.org...

a reply to: sirlancelot

Another one lol.

I bet Nerf is pissing himself lol.

originally posted by: neformore

When was the last time a gun owner apologised to you personally for the actions of others of their ilk?

Do you own a hammer? About 400 people are killed each year by hammers, have you apologized for their actions since you own a hammer too?

I'm going to hold each person personally accountable for their actions so the 30 to 300 million Muslims that agree with extremest views I'll hold each of them accountable for their actions, we can start with 2 in France...the other 1.2 billion I'll have tea and smoke water pipes with....deal?

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: eriktheawful

To be fair Erik there is an ideal behind gun ownership...

Not every Gun owner has the same reasons as you & I actually salute your reasoning...

You could fight the PitBull & kill it easily, but it would get messy...

A point blank bullet would be my preferred option in your situation....


But I'm sure you're smart enough to understand what Nef implying & I'm sure he wasn't addressing people like yourself.

I could use my crossbow instead, but with a 220 pound pull, if I miss, I'm screwed as the dog will be on me before I can cock the bow again.

I could use a ax, or a machette or a hunting knife, putting myself in close range of the dog or the rattle snake, thus putting myself in even more danger.

Then there are bobcats....not sure I want to go hand to hand with them. My own house cats rip me up as it is.



I understood perfectly what Nef was trying to say in his OP: Why should an entire group of people be blamed or held accountable for the actions of a minority (careful.....that "minority" seems to be growing in both size and power each day), or that they should be the ones to put a leash on them?

They shouldn't, in my humble opinion.

I just felt that there are much better analogies to this situation.

Why not compare this to say racial issues? He could have easily used that. Or why not do the comparison with US LEOs?

Or, now here is a radical idea: why do a comparison at all? Why not just put the message out? Any comparison was going to derail this thread in any case. This thread will be come a Pro vs Anti gun rights thread and the real message will be lost.

If Nef wanted to show that if you antagonize a group, they'll get angry, he's more than proved his point (which should be common sense to anyone), however I doubt seriously that any gun owner or 2nd right advocate is going to show up at his door.

a reply to: boymonkey74

I did get it right from the off... so I hope you didn't include me with the 'more'.

Beautiful satire by the OP. Half the people in this thread just proved the OP right. LOL. I chalk this phenomenon up to the wonderful mathematical equation. Humans=Hypocrites.

Worst comparison ever.

Ps I get it it's just stupid.

a reply to: eriktheawful

Stop playing with Bobcats and your house cats will probably be nicer to you.

Duh

a reply to: neformore

Sorry but the only deeper thinking im doing atm is wondering wtf are you reaching for here?
i will try to keep this simple and address what you are asking i think.

you state "The problem is that people with guns kill people. And the gun community isn't doing anything about it.
" that statement is 100% false compleat lie. try using google you will find that there has been many many hoops we have to jump in to be able to own a firearm. that has been put in place thanks to the NRA. But i guess that is your nothing ?

next address "When was the last time you saw a mass rally by gun advocates such as the NRA protesting a spree killing?"
about the same time i seen Ford protest a car crash that got somebody killed. or when philip morris protest on lung cancer. or when does the big pharma say they are sorry for supplying overdoes?

Next "When was the last time a gun owner apologised to you personally for the actions of others of their ilk?" Really? you expect somebody that did not have anything to do with it apologized to you ? I have read some really bad stuff on google.com before. your a Super mod, Why have you not apologized to me? get the point?

Next "Why haven't the majority of gun advocates stood up and done something about the spree killings, weeded out these extremist spree killers before they've struck and got rid of them? " kinda funny you bring this up tbo. This big terror attack they did in Paris. one of my first thoughts when i seen the recording from the cell phone of the dude standing in the middle of the street with a ak and a mask on was. WTF u doing with a cell phone and not putting a round into his head. then i think oh yeah that's right you cant get guns in Paris. only your enemy's can just not you. you wonder why the USA is one of the most hated countrys but yet that crap dont happen here. cuz they know as the chinese commander said back in ww2 that behind every blade of grass you will find a amareican with a gun if you come to this land.
Now with that being said here is some true thought for you and the readers. how many lives would have been saved if that cell phone was a person trained to use a firearm with a firearm. If anything it makes me want to train more people to use firearms and not run away from them.

a reply to: eriktheawful

Then there are bobcats....not sure I want to go hand to hand with them. My own house cats rip me up as it is.

Lol for sure, I don't trust cats to be honest.




As for understanding the thread...
You do realise it was intended to be humerous...

Not a factual or opinion based rant...


He was clearly alluding to the "why don't muslims apologise for terror attacks" and decided to get that message across to Gun owners.



He could have used ethnicity or LEOs but I don't think there is as many of those on ATS with which to share the message.



& personally, understanding British humour, I feel 100% certain that Nef doesn't actually believe that Gun owners should apologise, rather it was a way to create an understanding that maybe people should stop telling Muslims to apologise for others short comings...

He could have just said that, but the comparison analogy sends the message out there much better than just asking why should Muslims apologise.



That's what I think a lot of people in this thread didn't understand.



Not trying to be confrontational Erik, I admire your passion for this, I just think the understanding you have got a little mixed up in the commotion of the thread.


It was of course destined to turn anti vs pro...
Although I don't think that was Nef's intention.


Merely a humerous analogy to create an understanding and a bit of empathetic reasoning.



Peace to you Erik.

originally posted by: thesaneone
Worst comparison ever.

Ps I get it it's just stupid.

Awww, you're just saying that because you're very protective of yourself as a gun owner. Now, can you imagine how the Muslim who hasn't done anything wrong feels when large groups of non-Muslims unfairly demand he fixes this situation with the extremists? Can you imagine how he feels when these non-Muslims start unfairly attacking his Muslim religion?

When we do this, all we are doing is causing further and further rifts between us and them. Is that really what we want to accomplish?

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Another UK resident who actually gets it!!!


I see a pattern emerging.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Must admit I don't know now whether to laugh and cry at the lack of reading comprehension members have shown here.

originally posted by: karmicecstasy
Beautiful satire by the OP. Half the people in this thread just proved the OP right. LOL. I chalk this phenomenon up to the wonderful mathematical equation. Humans=Hypocrites.

So lets get this out in the open and end this debate...

Is there a single person here that feels all Muslims are extremist?

Is there a single person here that feel all Muslims are evil or some other negative connotation?

Neformore has an issue with all this and in his/her mind Muslim extremism is only .0125 percent of the 1.5 billion. This person jumped in my case for even suggesting 2% were extremist, so yes if you think 2% are extremist too then you fit Nef's view that it also means ALL Muslims are extremist.

A funny part is a quick search showed that 6% are very extremist and up to 30% have extremist views. Not my numbers, but numbers from their own Muslim groups.

The bottom line is this is a large number of people even at .0125% and people did not develop their negative views because Muslims happened to be Muslim. They developed these views because of the large number of worldwide extremist acts.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I see a pattern emerging.

It doesn't make me proud

:-)

Honestly - I don't know if I'm more bothered by the fact that people completely miss the point - or the fact that so many apparently have no sense of humor

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
sorry but why should other gun owners apologise for the actions of someone else they have nothing do do with?

Do you also think all car drivers should be out protesting every time a kid gets knocked down.

But do you think all Muslims should apologise for killing some people in France by a small group of extremists?

Now I am no advocate of guns but i don't really see why a gun owner in Texas should be out apologising if a gunman in Alaska kills a couple of people.

I don't know if you are trying to draw a parallel between violent Islamic extremism and guns. I am guessing you are and at the same time trying to point out that people demand that the whole Muslim community gets on their feet every time there is a terrorist attack, yet the same is not expected when someone shoots up a school in Sandy Hook of gun owners. It is a good point. Kind of.

Because don't know if this is a fair comparison to draw or not, I can see some problems with it.

Some might say that when we talk about the Islam we are talking about a identifiable group in our society who can have a direct influence potentially on the actions of these terrorists, they all have a link through their sheared faith. Owning a gun is not like that, gun owners are not connected in any real way other than that they own a gun, which is not quite as profound as sharing a religion.

Additionally I am sure that most gun owners would say that they oppose mass shootings, its just that they do not want their "freedom to bare arms" taken away from them as a result.

This is a thought provoking subject however and I can see what your getting at, why does one group have to come out in their masses and apologise for the actions of a few in their members. Yet the same is not expected of gun owners, but like i said above that comparison does have its problems.

So suppose it could be argued from the other side but I doubt that you are going to get many American gun owners to read as far down as the disclaimer and I doubt that some will understand the deeper meaning of the thread.

Wow a real WTF moment You know its really cool that you read all the way to the bottom. but i think you forgot the topic is talking about gun control not Muslims

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

To be honest Spira I'm just messing with a bit of banter...
So be proud my friend

I have no doubt that the majority of my American cousins to get British humour...

& I meant no offence either, just thought I'd try and lighten up a quite hostile thread!

a reply to: St0mP121

Really? anyone got a facepalm image?.