Can we quit the BS? Stop defending extremist action

a reply to: Bluesma

Ahh yes, the rise of ultra nationalism. It's kinda predictable really, you push the people of a nation too far and they will vote for the 'easy' option which is usually another nutter extremist.

The question still begs to be answered why have the Muslims been allowed to get away with SO MUCH? Why would you just let them have free reign because they riot? Why are they not responding like with like?

The French government is not the only one that has been far too soft on Muslims. People are starting to wake up to this fact only now.

originally posted by: markosity1973

The question still begs to be answered why have the Muslims been allowed to get away with SO MUCH? Why would you just let them have free reign because they riot? Why are they not responding like with like?

I have tried to explain this, but either I didn't do it well, or you simply disagree (which is fine, if so).

The french (of a certain age) carry a huge amount of guilt about what they have done in the past when collaborating with the Nazi's. In the event I linked to, 13,152 people, including more than 4,000 children, were just pulled from their homes one day by force and shipped off to Aushwitz, by the french police. That was one event, and there were others.

It is something the older generation holds almost as taboo, they won't talk about it, and younger people, I have seen, don't even know about it! But that guilt runs deep and keeps them afraid of doing anything that might be conscrued as racism.

Unfortunately, as most of know, if you are very afraid of something, you usually lead yourself straight to it....

a reply to: Domo1

The problem is: Some moslems have not left the 14th century....

Name a conflict in the world. Examine the role of Islam in the conflict. Move on to the next conflict. Wash, rinse, repeat.

See a pattern?

Look back in history and Islam was forward looking when Christianity was not. Hence science, exploration for a period was more advanced in Moslem countries than the west.

Sharia Law in particular is worrying and the very high percentage of Moslems who support it (by the best "facts" that we can get- polls). As a Fundamentalist Agnostic, I would much prefer take my chance with Human Rights as opposed to Sharia Law. It may not be perfect but will come under scrutiny and debate and will change when it is found to be wrong.

a reply to: spy66

So killing people is an acceptable way of handling disputes?

They could have organized a peacefull demonstration or approached the legal system to try and get their case heard (as is the case with the RCC when the pope was insulted if i am not mistaken).

But no, they chose to kill, and no matter how they try to validate their reasons, that is wrong!

a reply to: spy66

I get what you are saying.... Your thought process is Noble and right headed and the way things SHOULD be.

The problem is, the world does not work that way.

Appeasement has never, in the history of man, ever worked. If I am wrong, then please provide an example of when appeasement worked, I will be quite surprised. I can provide example after example after example of the failure of appeasement.

Attacking simply because of a cartoon of their deity...is nothing more than an excuse. A rationalization that makes it easier, more justifiable, but in the end would not affect anything whatsoever.

Take away the cartoons and there will be other excuses: our lifestyles, our freedom, equal rights, women's rights, the consumption of alchohol etc etc etc. Bottom line is: we do not worship their God... That is what is at the root, the core of the conflict. Even if we did, but were a member of a different branch of Islam, it would not make a difference, IMO.

a reply to: Domo1

Its not just a question of free speech. We cannot look at what happened in France in isolation. We have been at war for over 15 years bombing countries in the middle east. A lot of people have died many of which are muslims.
A militrary machine cannot function in the western world without a propganda machine. It is all part of the same structure.
12 peeps dead. Yes its sad and its wrong. But why are people so shocked when war comes home. 3 million marched because 12 peeps died. What about the marches for the 1.5 million dead in Iraq many of whome where women and children..

purp..

a reply to: Dmvr34

So killing people is an acceptable way of handling disputes?

It works well enough for the western world. How many nations have we topled in the last decade? Does not make their actions right but there is extremism on both sides of the specturm...

a reply to: bbracken677

The problem is: Some moslems have not left the 14th century....

Not just Muslims.. Bush was happy to say that he went to war because God told him too...

a reply to: Domo1

could not agree more
the first thing now the coward western governments do when there is an attack is to beg us to `understand most muslims are peaceful`

whilst i am sure that is true.. isnt the priority with the people in the body bags? not `protecting the feelings` of the muslims

a reply to: skunkape23

The Muslims I know seem to be good people. I can see in their eyes that they are concerned with the defamation of their image.

The defmation of the Muslim was occuring long before 911.. Look at all the holywood films produced in the USA. You would be hard to pushed to find one in which the Arab was the good guy..
Satirical magazines are part of this same process. They are happy to vilify the Arab. Yet the man the tried to vilify the Jews lost his job..

a reply to: kayleighkitty

whilst i am sure that is true.. isnt the priority with the people in the body bags? not `protecting the feelings` of the muslim

No the prioty lies with trying to understand the mechanisms that caused these events so they dont happen again...

a reply to: TheArrow
I totally agree with you that sweeping it under the rug is absolutely wrong. Everyone deserves to have a voice and to have justice after they've been abused. I believe that 100%. But comparing that to being blamed and ultimately killed for something you had no control over is overreaching a bit, don't you think?

I understand you're trying to point out that no religion is perfect, and again, I agree. I just feel like you're comparing apples to oranges in order to achieve that.