Faith the determining factor? I don't think so! Good works and love are more important.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: WarminIndy

Here we go "blah, blah, blah" again, just because it disagrees with what you want to think it should say and not what it does say.

This is you not reading what I said, you are blocking it out and saying irrational things in order to somehow make my words less meaningful in your own mind. Maybe you got through the first paragraph but you stopped reading and posted this response without actually reading what I said. I apologize if I'm wrong, that's just the impression I got from your response.

Also, faith is for me. I have faith in love and thus God. Seems like you're the one going "blah blah blah" because someone doesn't agree with you.

What love do you have faith in?

You have faith in your own love toward others or others' love toward you? What is love, by the way?

Can you give us a clear definition of love? Then tell us the implications of love, even if it is unrequited. I hear you guys bandying around the term love all the time, but really, what is it?

Do you have faith in love or the concept of love? Do you love me so much that you would give your life for me? I don't know you and yet you sit behind a computer screen telling us that you have faith in love, but really, would you give your life for me? Can I have faith in the power of your love that I should expect you to give your life for me?

Would you give your life for windword? What about Akragon? What about the prisoners? What about those more poor than you? I hear you guys talk about it all the time but I see you doing nothing but talking about it.

What is love?

Give your life for mine if you truly have faith in love.

a reply to: WarminIndy

I have faith in God who is love. Love is to treat others as you would want to be treated, and personal suffering if it meant benefit for another.

I don't expect you to believe me but I would give my life for you. I have no fear of death, I know what lies on the other side because I am here right now. If saving someone's life meant to give mine up I most certainly would, even for a complete stranger. It's the right thing to do.

Again, I do not expect you to believe me but I'm telling the truth. I do love you because I know we are the same on the inside.

I think the question should be, why aren't you bandying around love? Jesus commanded you to.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: WarminIndy

I have faith in God who is love. Love is to treat others as you would want to be treated, and personal suffering if it meant benefit for another.

I don't expect you to believe me but I would give my life for you. I have no fear of death, I know what lies on the other side because I am here right now. If saving someone's life meant to give mine up I most certainly would, even for a complete stranger. It's the right thing to do.

Again, I do not expect you to believe me but I'm telling the truth. I do love you because I know we are the same on the inside.

I think the question should be, why aren't you bandying around love? Jesus commanded you to.

WHAT is love?

That should be simple enough to explain.

And saving someone at your own peril is not really love, that's just simple compassion. Love, as Jesus taught, means that you willingly take the punishment for someone else, so they would find grace in the eyes of a just God.

So, would you take the punishment, the stripes, the mockery, the scorn for my sins? How far are you willing to go to prove love?

a reply to: WarminIndy

There is no greater love than laying ones life down for a friend. I would lay my life down for a stranger if it came to that. It's not that I feel gratification for it, it's because I know that I am them and they are me. I don't WANT to die, but I know neither does that stranger, and I am comfortable in my knowledge of the afterlife so I am not afraid of death, it is only the beginning of something better. I do it because I know it is the right thing to do. If that other person is afraid of death then death is a suffering/punishment to them and I am bearing that suffering on myself by dying "for" him/her. This is most definitely a trait humans are capable of achieving. Mothers and fathers will do it for their children, so can people do it for strangers. Jesus did it and so have many others before him and after him. You may not always hear about it but that's for a reason, they want you focused on the one person THEY have built up.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: WarminIndy

There is no greater love than laying ones life down for a friend. I would lay my life down for a stranger if it came to that. It's not that I feel gratification for it, it's because I know that I am them and they are me. I don't WANT to die, but I know neither does that stranger, and I am comfortable in my knowledge of the afterlife so I am not afraid of death, it is only the beginning of something better. I do it because I know it is the right thing to do. If that other person is afraid of death then death is a suffering/punishment to them and I am bearing that suffering on myself by dying "for" him/her. This is most definitely a trait humans are capable of achieving. Mothers and fathers will do it for their children, so can people do it for strangers. Jesus did it and so have many others before him and after him. You may not always hear about it but that's for a reason, they want you focused on the one person THEY have built up.

But would you willingly take the punishment for rapists, murderers, embezzlers, adulterers and all the other kinds of miscreants? That is what Jesus did, took the punishment. See, you can do it for friends, but for those who are not likeable to you, can you do that?

He took the punishment for your sins, while you were still yet a sinner. That is the work of the cross, taking your punishment upon Himself.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Jesus didn't die for just rapists, murderers, adulterers, and all other miscreants. You're setting up a false dichotomy. Jesus supposedly died for ALL, not just the worst of sinners.

If there were a room of a mix of good people and bad people and the hostage taker said that I had to die in order to save them (whether good or bad) from being burned alive, I would gladly die to save them, even if those people included rapists and murderers. Know why? Because I know there are good people in there too.

Now if the room was full of nothing but rapists and murderers then it does not apply to what Jesus did because he supposedly died for the good and bad, not just the bad.

If my death meant them changing their ways and getting their lives on track then it's definitely a possibility I would do it, but that's ONLY if they were guaranteed to change their ways.