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How a Cop Should Feel After Pulling The Trigger

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posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 12:20 PM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Brotherman


If they had to pull the trigger they should feel lucky to be alive and thankful for their training IMO


Only he violated all the protocols regards felony stops (alone) and approach of the vehicle (alone), even opening the rear door and hanging there…

He was looking for Ramirez, the stop was made in the hood where Ramirez lived, Back up was within shouting distance…



You really should look in to writing manuals and seminars and such, since you seem to know the policy of every police agency in the land, and how every situation should have been handled. You clearly have a ton of knowledge that should be shared.

@puppylove: why is it brotherman should feel bad for not losing at combat? I'm confused there.


He should feel bad for being forced to take another life. He should feel bad for the person dead, their loved ones who lost them ect.

If a person does not feel empathy for the person they killed and their loved ones, it is a sign of some degree of sociopathy and should be worrisome.

Addendum Edit: That being said, many sociopaths live full productive lives. And socipathy has degrees of severity. The thing is, sociopaths tend to gravity towards military and jobs like police officers ect. Problem is easy for a sociopath to step over the line. They tend not to empathize or care about others and right or wrong like the rest of us do. Empathy is very diminished.
edit on PMSat, 10 Jan 2015 12:25:17 -060010America/Chicago1022015Saturdayf by Puppylove because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 12:24 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6


Like I said, your expertise is quite apparent. Hopefully you can put that together

Flattery will get you nowhere. Aren't they already receiving that kind of training? Especially that kind?



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 12:33 PM
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a reply to: Puppylove
I don't think people that want to survive are sociopaths, there is a difference between wanting to kill someone or something and having to kill someone or something. Those that feel that kind of way wouldn't live very long in an extreme situation unless they have extraordinary luck. I'd hazard a guess most soldiers and cops are not sociopaths, I'd stake they are survivors in a more often then not cruel reality they call their job in the environment around them. If I had to drop a threat I'm going to do it probably without thinking twice and instead of feeling remorse I'm going to assess the situation and identify and clear additional threats if presented. Then after it's over I am going to feel really scared that I was almost the guy laid out before me, I will probably puke from adrenaline and then I am going to put my pack back on and keep moving forward. I respect the enemy but I do not destroy my mind by feeling sorry for the enemy or myself. I am a survivor not a sociopath. The need to kill is a byproduct of a lethal threat, once in motion people will die or become seriously injured this is nature.



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 01:03 PM
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a reply to: Brotherman

There's a difference between self defense and fighting for survival, and doing so without giving a # afterwords. There's also a difference between choosing to kill as first option, without even attempting to assess whether other options are available. More often then they should, officers have non lethal means to subdue their target, but instead go for the gun and shoot first. The not even considering whether their are other options, the choosing lethal so simply and easily, is a sociopathic trait.

The reason many people acquire shell shock, and the reason many people do hesitate and die, good decent people, is because killing others easily is not the natural state of a healthy human mind. People who can kill others easily with no remorse, even in self defense, are not wired like most compassionate and caring people. It says much when a person does not care that a life was lost about how much consideration for the lives of others they have when making their decisions.

All you see is a threat and not a person, that is a problem. The easier killing becomes, the easier choosing a lethal solution to a problem becomes. It's called desensitization and it's dangerous. Is why cops need psyche evals. Not that these evals are very effective mind you. Point being, if you honestly don't care that you killed someone, then how can I or anyone else really trust you to decide when it's really necessary or not, as you apparently do not give a life enough worth to care that you took it. Do other's lives matter to you or not?
edit on PMSat, 10 Jan 2015 13:10:23 -060010America/Chicago1022015Saturdayf by Puppylove because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 01:13 PM
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a reply to: Puppylove

One can care about killing somebody without dwelling on it. When it's a "him or me" situation, I don't think its abnormal to be glad to have won that engagement.

Saying that if one doesn't spend time thinking about the other person's family and the impact on their lives and on and on, then they're a sociopath is a bit of an over simplification of the psychology behind combat.



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 01:13 PM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Shamrock6


Like I said, your expertise is quite apparent. Hopefully you can put that together

Flattery will get you nowhere. Aren't they already receiving that kind of training? Especially that kind?


Dunno man. Perhaps you can tell me?
edit on 10-1-2015 by Shamrock6 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 01:20 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

Sociopathy has degrees, all psychological conditions do. Is part of the problem many people have, it's an all or nothing deal with everyone, but that's not reality. Everyone has traits common with OCD, everyone occassionally hears things, everyone occassionally suffers a bit of something from every psychological disorder in their makeup, is a bit of a balance, few "normal" people are extreme in any of this, those that are get labelled, but really they don't have anything anyone else doesn't is just out of wack from the acceptable functional balance. I already said many sociopaths lead healthy productive lives, and no, not saying he's a sociopath, but that is a very strong sociopathic trait to have. Also through desensitization, is one than can become stronger in time as the mind adapts to such encounters.

The frank fact is, the more you kill the easier it becomes. That is not healthy, and is dangerous, as the easier something becomes the more likely you find it an acceptable solution to a problem.
edit on PMSat, 10 Jan 2015 13:20:53 -060010America/Chicago1022015Saturdayf by Puppylove because: (no reason given)

edit on PMSat, 10 Jan 2015 13:23:10 -060010America/Chicago1022015Saturdayf by Puppylove because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 01:27 PM
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I can just see it now, any other video of an officer involved shooting where the officer isn't crying will be seen as a lack of emotion by the cop haters. "Evidence" of sociopathic behavior if you will.

One must remember everyone reacts to trauma differently.

This officer may have cried on the spot, but the next may not.

Just because one does not cry or immediately show emotion does not mean they aren't tremendously affected by such an incident.



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: Puppylove

We can agree that it's a trait, yes. And that it does not automatically make one a sociopath.

I will say that "caring" can manifest itself in a number of different ways. Pondering the deceased's family is not the only way one can care about an event that caused a life to be taken. I would be much more likely to say somebody is a sociopath, or behaving like one, for not caring about their buddies being killed than an enemy combatant. The enemy is dehumanized, for this very reason. Again, it's the psychology of combat.



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: TorqueyThePig

Of course not. But when people admit straight out that it does not affect them and that they don't care, how else can it be looked at. There's a difference between moving on and having NO EMPATHY AT ALL. I don't see how you can't see the difference.



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 01:34 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

Right but should that same dehumanization be applied to the people they are supposed to protect and serve? The citizens should not be dehumanized by the officers that protect them. Is a very dangerous road. This is not a warzone and it damn well should not be treated as one.



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 01:35 PM
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a reply to: TorqueyThePig

Very true.



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 01:38 PM
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originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: jude11
I also wanted to say that I also don't feel as though anyone wins in these scenarios, it's just someone survived and someone did not. It is tragic and a disease humans have to face.


Correct.

No one actually wins.

But many cops/citizens will go about their lives with no remorse and that is a loss completely.

Peace



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 01:41 PM
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a reply to: Puppylove

I was speaking about military in combat. And only about that. Brotherman was speaking as a ex military member about combat.

I think it vastly more likely for a LEO to go through a range of emotions after taking a life than a military person would because civilians are not dehumanized, for the most part, like enemy combatants are.



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 01:52 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

Yes but he was saying how he thought the LEO should feel.

Personally I think it's a great disservice to the military men how they are desensitized. Is how things like the Rape of Nanking or all the rapes, ect that happen in Vietnam, or many other atrocities happen. Even when necessary, dehumanizing is never a good thing, and has major repercussions on the psyche.

Without dehumanizing the holocaust would be impossible. Think of that.

Speaking of the holocaust, and the american/african slave trade, during my school years, both these things got so much attention, was shown, discussed and crammed down my throat to the point I got desensitized to it. I'm a very empathic person, that stuff really bothered me, but over time of exposure after exposure after exposure, I stopped empathizing and started being annoyed by it, my mind adapted to all this pain by eventually shutting it out. I'm still an empathic person, but my ability to care about these two travesties is completely burned out. I intellectually know I should care, but I can't.

I recognize this is neither healthy, right, nor good. It has effected how I see and feel about a lot of things. I have developed quite a few unhealthy sociopathic traits of my own. I at least recognize them for what they are, accept the truth of them, and in doing so attempt to realize when what I'm doing is right and not conditioned responses and feelings.
edit on PMSat, 10 Jan 2015 15:04:05 -060010America/Chicago1022015Saturdayf by Puppylove because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 03:55 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6


Dunno man. Perhaps you can tell me?


Of course you are. The most on duty encounter is the simple road stop. Most of the time benign. except when there is BOLO, armed and dangerous and you are actively looking for him in his neighborhood…

Playing dumb now?



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 04:10 PM
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Anyone notice one of the several officers that come over and takes a look and shakes his head , almost like he thinks it's wrong for the man to be upset.
And why do people act like being a cop is the most dangerous jobs in the country? Sure it is dangerous but I don't think it is in the top 10 , I think it is ranked about the same as being a farmer in terms of deaths on the job.



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 04:13 PM
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originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: Puppylove

I speak from experience as a marine, after it's all over you feel scared after the fact, confused and like I said after a time I felt lucky to be alive and thankful for the rigorous training I had to endure. Mostly I felt scared right after the fact though


The mindset of a police officer should not be the mindset of a soldier.



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 04:18 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok

I agree, I did clarify though that the reason I felt as though the parrelel could be drawn is because both soldiers and police have lethal weapons training and that the way the two would feel if they HAD to draw down on someone and kill them may be very similar, nothing more nothing less, I left out regular chaps because most of them do not have this type of training. Of course it is my opinion I am not the expert in it or anything thats all.



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 04:32 PM
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originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: crazyewok

I agree, I did clarify though that the reason I felt as though the parrelel could be drawn is because both soldiers and police have lethal weapons training and that the way the two would feel if they HAD to draw down on someone and kill them may be very similar, nothing more nothing less, I left out regular chaps because most of them do not have this type of training. Of course it is my opinion I am not the expert in it or anything thats all.


Personaly

I expect a soldier in combat to kill another enemy soldier and move on quickly. Thats the job. Unpleasent but someone has to do it if our countrys are attacked (though I think both our country armed forces are being misused but thats a diffrent topic)

To me a policeman role is not to kill. To kill should be the very last resort. There job is to protect the public and bring suspects in for the courts to judge and punish. Allthough killing a suspect may be at times needed in some ways it should considered a failure. Not a failure on the policemans part, just not a desired outcome. Sad and unfortunate.
edit on 10-1-2015 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



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