I am proud to be a Christian Fundamentalist.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

I'm want of nothing, I place no value on anything, I'm devoid of passion & pleasure, I have lived a life of selfless suffering, placing the needs & wants of others before my own since I was a small child, for I have no needs & wants of my own. I accept that our reality is upside down & backwards in every way. I've preached ego destruction since I was 12, & every day of the past 27 years it has gotten harder & harder to function & participate in "normal" society due to my world views & complete disregard for societal norms/politically correctness/drive toward future goals.

Without sin, am I allowed to be Christian? I've always said when I die, I'll find out the truth (theoretically) & so why worry about it. With nothing to repent for, ive never been too worried about judgement & so never felt the need to take a stance one way or another on God.

To me, accepting we are incomparable to a God figure, should there be one, seems the pretty obvious thing to do.

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
a reply to: ProfessorChaos

I think I would have had more respect for the answer "To exist as human is to sin."

I'm sure I'll regret asking, but how exactly did I sin?
By assuming I don't sin? By truly believing my claim that I have never sinned? By sarcastically calling you a bad person? By exhibiting sarcasm in general? Or by not believing some long term conditioned ideology about what it means to sin?

Ah, you're right, all of the above.

Since you've obviously chosen to have a battle of rhetoric, and sarcasm, I'll save you that "regret". This thread was clearly meant to have members 'man-up', and openly state their stance on God, rather than arguing about it.

Having made my initial statement, I will now step back, and let the thread take its course.

A cop out.
This is a forum, not a comments section.

"Man up"? This blatant example of ego is the paradox of religion. It's the Ego that leads to sin, but you demand attaching value to a religious stance based on ego. Round & round we go. To err is human, to sin is Christian.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
I believe soon your wishes will come true. People in the western world are becoming more and more impatient with religious people and I believe soon Christianity will be banned in the public [...]

Woah... don't put words in to my mouth please.
Read my post again... I explicitly stated that I am pro religious freedom within a secular state and society.

a reply to: FlyersFan
That being said ... why doesn't the real God come in and take control of the situation? Why let His name be misused so much? Does He even care?
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Well, IMO, the problem is with most peoples concept of God. God = object of worship.

As I mentioned, I don't believe that the great creator desires or needs our worship...thus I don't have a god, per se, but a total love and awe of the great creator...which we all are a part of and the sheer awesomeness of nature, which we are a part of nature as well.

At the moment, here's my outlook:

Since we all came from the same place...both good and evil, then the concept of God and Satan just doesn't make sense any more. How could evil come into existence without being an attribute of God in the first place?

The problem lies in the 1000's of years of entrenched thought and belief in the human concept of what god is. It's hard to fathom that the creator is something different than an entity, setting on a throne of some sort, watching out over all of his creation and micromanaging everything.

Having said that, I believe that we all are the face of 'god'. In all dimensions and in every galaxy or planet that has life. You and me and everyone else IS the face of the creator, experiencing it's creation, good and evil and in an infinite loop...where it appears eternal, but in a closed loop and self energizing....like a Torus.

I had problems with the evil in the world and the 'why's of it existing. But think about it...what a perfect way for the creator to experience it's self...through the act of reincarnation, through deliberate amnesia, to live and live and live...on many plans of existence, through countless humans, ETS, spirits, demons...the whole shebang!

We are creators as well, and while the 'energy' is neutral, it's our creative thoughts, desires, actions and intentions that use that sword for good or evil.

But in the end it's all about the creator realizing it's self.

God, IMO, cannot be fathomed or explained. It's our yearning of truth that lets us know there is more. And everyone's experience of 'more' is different...as it should be. We are the creator, in this very moment and I now rest and relax knowing that this life is what I make of it, what I create and how I perceive that which is before me. I stopped trying to understand it all...now my quest is " What is my full potential in this human life'"? This life is like a sandbox the creator set us down in and said..."Play!"

On of the greatest realization that I've had is that there is no 'god' on a throne judging us. As in nature, it's the reaping and sowing that gives us our rewards or judgments...not an angry god pointing his finger in our faces. Every actions has a reaction. The intend and power of your actions determines the outcome you experience...either in this life or the next one. The Creator place this law of the universe in effect....no need for judgment at some future point. Our creative actions do that for us.

How boring would it be if everyone agreed?

One creative entity...7 billions masks it wears....and that's just here on earth. Not counting all life in this universe or in the omniverse, or in the countless dimensions or densities that we know nothing about yet.

When I came to this understanding I stopped grasping for explanations...much to my relief. This life is all about me and my choices and my beliefs, and what I can do as a creative being with such. As it is with you and everyone else. Service to others or service to self?

I could ramble more but perhaps you get my drift...even if you don't agree

Oh and OP you are not following god you are following another mans interpretation of god.
Everyone who needs a book to find god is.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: DeathSlayer

If I were to say that I hated God, what would your reaction be?

I would ask why and I would listen to what you had to say and then depending on what you said I would pray that the Holy Spirit would move me to speak the right words to touch your heart to rethink your conclusions.

That is the way I wish all Christians knew to think. For the record, I do not hate God.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: ColCurious

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

Lets make this for the record. Be clear about how you feel about God [...]

I don't feel anything about a concept I don't believe actually exists.
Why would I ?

I believe in the concept of freedom of religion though - but only within a secular state and society.

Religion has no place in politics (or even education/schools) and religious zealots, fanatics and radicals should be ostracized and banned - no matter if Christians, Muslims or whatever religion.

I believe soon your wishes will come true. People in the western world are becoming more and more impatient with religious people and I believe soon Christianity will be banned in the public. Actually I read an article the other day where a man was arrested for reading the bible in a city park..... somewhere in the U.S. and a teacher was recently fired in the U.S. for giving a student a bible...... and the student asked for one. In some countries it is already illegal to hold Christian meetings inside your home.

I would not be surprised if Christianity will be banned and illegal in many western governments which I believe will occur within the next few years.... maybe by 2020 and I look forward to it, do you know why? This will separate the "true Christian" from the false ones who parade around as one.

To my brothers and sisters - keep the faith and mature quickly - your faith will be tested.

No, he wasn't arrested for reading a Bible in a city park. He was arrested for reading it aloud and violating the rights of others on public property. Why did you misstate the situation? If the student was given a Bible by a teacher in a public school, the teacher should be in trouble. No doubt the giving of the Bible was preceded by proselytizing or otherwise the student would not have been aware of the teacher's religion and asked him for a Bible. Are you not familiar with the law?

If fundamentalists continue to proselytize in public places, pound on doors, invade the privacy of people, picket funerals, threaten people, blow up clinics, and violate the rights of others, they should expect a backlash.

a reply to: Tangerine

No, he wasn't arrested for reading a Bible in a city park. He was arrested for reading it aloud and violating the rights of others on public property. Why did you misstate the situation?

What about his First Amendment rights?

oh.........and I forgot to put one word in my sentence, the word - "outloud".

You go ahead and keep on hating and I will keep on praying.

a reply to: Eunuchorn

To be a Christian mean to follow Christ. The first part of which is to love God.

So no you could not be a Christian, because its more than just being a good person and living a decent life - although that is part of it.

I am sure you will find out though whether there is a God and whether or not there is a heaven in the end though. So you will get your wish. I know God knows your heart.

My best wishes for a long and happy life to you.

a reply to: magnison

I believe that we all are the face of 'god'. In all dimensions and in every galaxy or planet that has life. You and me and everyone else IS the face of the creator, experiencing it's creation, good and evil and in an infinite loop...where it appears eternal, but in a closed loop and self energizing....like a Torus.

Yes! THIS ^^^ !! A thousand times!

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Since I have shown you your first error and spreading lies why should I continue? Because it is my hope you will see that God loves you and hopes you will join him when the times comes.

I kinda figured you would go for hook, line, and sinker. Do you also call your evangelical/fundamentalist/"traditionalist" brothers and sister liars, and accuse them of spreading such, because many of them still believe in eternal torment in hell, and the lake of fire? Seems if they don't believe like you, they are liars. Going to hell too, I presume.

This is true. The messiah has come and fulfilled prophecy and to those who reject the Gospel message - then I shake the dust from my shoes and leave that person alone. We do not force feed anyone that rejects the message and anyone that does is wrong.

You say you don't force feed anyone, but you don't mind condemning them by shaking the dust from your feet when they reject god, and elitist doctrine. How loving.

Two very important issues in Christianity - if you want the Holy Spirit or any of the nine "gifts of the spirit" then hands from a holy person must touch you. It is called transference. It partially transfers a spiritual gift or many from one believer to another believer. It will not work on a non believer.... and not every believer receives these gifts. Miracles happen today just as in the days of Christ..... actually more today than in the days of Christ. It's one thing to see a miracle then to read about one.

This sounds more like fundamentalist doctrine than it does bible. I'd like to see chapter and verse saying the only way to receive the holy spirit or the gifts is by the laying on of hands.

And what does the bible teach about husbands? They are to be obedient to Christ. We are to love our spouses and family and we are required to supply them with everything they need not lay around the house, unemployed, drinking and shouting out orders. Women are not to be treated as slaves but to become of "one flesh" Have you forgotten what the book of Genesis says about woman and man? You have again misquoted and taken out of content what was meant by this teaching. The bible teaches both man and woman how to live a godly life.

Like most fundamentalists, you sidestepped the question. A simple yes would have sufficed. The oppression of women exists throughout scripture(including the NT), and is rampant in the early church "fathers" writings. We both know it.

If you have issues with Christian teachings OK but if you have issues with God then I think you should examine yourself and find your own faults and work on them. You have judged all Christians and there are many out there parading as a Christian and they are as far from being a Christian as you are.....

I'm glad you brought this up. I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard this from a Xtian about other Xtians. Especially between sects. To the protestant, the Catholics are anti-Christ. To the Baptists, fundies are the sect they wish didn't exist. To the fundies, the Baptists are Xtian, but a backward sect that doesn't believe the whole bible. As well, it's amazing the sects that pronounce one another as going to hell, or sinning because of their doctrine. Judgement?. You folks do plenty of that to each other. And BTW, "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."

BUT there is hope for you and everyone else who feels like you do. Why just don't you fall on your knees and pray to God to reveal himself to you or to send someone to you who will show you the way. Do this with sincerity and wait for his reply. He will reply to you.

Been there, done that. For a very long time.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Often I see many here on ATS complaining about religion but very few coming "out of the closet" and totally denying the existence of God and their hate for him (there are only a few) instead they blame God for the world's problems and that is as far as they dare to venture in blaspheming him.

Why are you so #$%#^#^#%^$%^%Y$^&&*%ing threatened with the idea that yours is not the same viewpoints that every one else has? Why do you need to come out, as you put it, and be that "I need to DECLARE" guy in the crowd ? Are you a victim? Have you been victimized? Do you truly bear emotional scars as evidence?

To be a Christian Fundamentalist must include the idea of being born with rather thin skin. I've a friend with JUST as strong of convictions as you...if not stronger than yours....however...he lives without the need to proselytize, nor condemn those who are not "saved". To him, that is God's job. His is to be a good person, and raise his children in the way he sees as a good and healthy way. He will discuss anything with you without the scathing rhetoric thinly veiled as victimization and as the rightful (because you were somehow attacked, personally) reclaiming of one's own rights. When I asked him "How do you feel about gay marriage?", he looked at me and simply said "I believe it is wrong." Nothing about "fags" rotting in hell. Nothing about the idea that anyone who doesn't follow the word of God is WRONG and will lead a life that is on the road to nowhere. When asked why he believes it is wrong, he'll tell you "Because God says it is so."

Nothing more, nothing less. Feel free to delve deeper with him, if you wish. He feels no need to "win", because, the peace he feels inside is "the win". He's perfectly secure with his own inner peace. I strive to be more like him in these and many other ways.

Oh, and he RESPECTS me, a sinner. Someone that he knows does not believe in God.. Just as I respect him with the highest regard. Although not blood, I am proud to call him family. And speaking of family, he trusts me with his own family. He has allowed me to step in and look out for their well being, knowing full well, that I would be just, kind, and protective towards them in my doing so. He did this, because life handed him a situation where he could not sufficiently attend to the violent storm of life influences AND do what needed to be done to take care of his family. Knowing how it was eating away at him, I helped. He accepted the help gracefully.

That, in my eyes, is strength.

As far as a I am concerned, he runs circles around you. There isn 't a SINGLE person that knows him who has nothing but the utmost respect for him. In my book, although I do not see eye to eye with his opinions, he is a true knight of the round table. Noble. Strong. Elegant. Eloquent in his ability to not attack others.

Surprised that a blasphemer such as myself (according to you) can be so mutually loved and trusted by a good Christian Fundamentalist? Could it be possible, that where I don't believe as you do, that I truly am in all actuality, a GOOD person?

Pretty bold statements. Making some rather broad stroke assumptions. Also, casting aspersions as to someone's character who's opinon that isn't 100% aligned with yours while you're at it.

God must be really lacking if he feels the need to declare that I am being mean to him. That I "hate" him. There is, IMHO, nothing TOO hate. I don't hate the tooth fairy. Why would I hate a god ?

And then you go onto say that I blame the world's problems on him? Now, before you get defensive and decide to redact....you did not make any effort to differentiate between US vs THEM. No backsies allowed here.

And BTW, given that I do not believe in God (there's your declaration that you were wanting to hear), why in the world would I even care enough to blaspheme? Personally, I don't bother. If I don't see the existence of an all knowing, all seeing boogey man much akin to Santa Claus, why would I waste my time doing such things?

Sorry, you're just being on the attack with your statements. Felt you should get some of my thoughts on the flipside, as well.

There just seem to be holes in your holy logic.

A Christian fundamentalist first and foremost goal is to "do our best" in trying to live the life of a Christian according to the teachings of the bible. Anything else you might have heard or seen is not Christian fundamentalism.


Perhaps, if one is trying to do their best, they shouldn't be so worried about those that don't believe? Perhaps, focusing on living a good life is in and of itself a good thing. Maybe, that shouldn't include personally damning those "blasphemers" you are so concerned about. It almost seems as if you are more concerned with the blasphemers than living your good life.

If I were hearing someone making any form of passive aggressive statements like yours in person, I'd think they really were not all that confident in their own beliefs. After all, isn't that when you need to start making loud proclamations?

Shouldn't you leave the damning to God, and not worry yourself with it? Are you not aware of the idea that truly believing something and giving yourself over to it, you trust in their wisdom, and leave it to them? He's doing such a wonderful job as it is, why is it that it was necessary to have you (of all people) anointed in the ability to "assist" him? Did he call you up and let you know that you were somehow special?


So lets do this....... Lets make this for the record. Be clear about how you feel about God, if you hate him say it and stick to your guns and be proud, it you don't believe he exist then say it.... that you reject him and if you love him then say it and praise him.


Just did.

And yet again, I cannot begin to waste the effort and energy involved in hating something I do not believe in.

Notice, at no time, I one said I hated him?

Wow, talk about defensiveness. Sure it's not you up on that cross? Sure you didn't pound the nails yourself ?

Let all those in heaven and hell see this record.

I truly see you as being so insecure in your beliefs that you need to go on the offensive. It's an indefensible position to be in and one of last resort. Maybe you should take time to contemplate, and re-evaluate?

My beliefs, and ideas, are internalized. I do not feel the need to defend them to anyone else. They show to people who experience my interactions with them and the world around us.

I am not Holy. The only truly holy thing out there, is that pair of underwear you've been holding on to because it was worn during some memorable occasion twenty or so years ago.

A religious artifact.



- NF

PS - Am I going off on you for your statements ? Damn right. You need a dose of reality, and come to grips with it.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
a reply to: Tangerine

No, he wasn't arrested for reading a Bible in a city park. He was arrested for reading it aloud and violating the rights of others on public property. Why did you misstate the situation?

What about his First Amendment rights?

oh.........and I forgot to put one word in my sentence, the word - "outloud".

You go ahead and keep on hating and I will keep on praying.

That one word made the difference from being within the law and breaking the law. The First Amendment does not allow anyone to say anything, anywhere, at any time. I refer you to the Supreme Court decisions regarding the separation of church and state. Frankly, it amazes me that someone would be unfamiliar with this. As long as you're praying, ask for the wisdom to do some research before talking about a subject and the good judgment to not twist the facts by leaving out the all-important word in an allegation.

a reply to: DeathSlayer


Except you aren't a fundameltalist Christian at all. Not unless you're prepared to murder your own daughter for premarital sex among many other things:

skepticsannotatedbible.com...

a reply to: OpinionatedB

A sin, is anything that puts self and self-will above that of HIM (God) and HIS Will.

so your glorious idol is in fact a dictator, not unlike the esteemed saddam hussein or fidel castro.

its laughable how much we criticize policies that we perceive as a threat to our freedom, and yet we give thanks at every meal to the most oppressive security system ever recorded.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Plus thought crime!!!.

a reply to: TzarChasm

so your glorious idol is in fact a dictator, not unlike the esteemed saddam hussein or fidel castro.

Well, you can't really say "who died and made you god"... to God Himself.

originally posted by: 8675309jenny
a reply to: DeathSlayer


Except you aren't a fundameltalist Christian at all. Not unless you're prepared to murder your own daughter for premarital sex among many other things:

skepticsannotatedbible.com...

Christians are under the New Covenant, not the Old. Check out Acts 15.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: TzarChasm

so your glorious idol is in fact a dictator, not unlike the esteemed saddam hussein or fidel castro.

Well, you can't really say "who died and made you god"... to God Himself.

you are missing the principle here. deliberately or not, i wont venture to guess at.

whether it be a god, a human, an alien or some other kind of being fictional or factual, i do not support dictators. i despise them, in fact. this country was founded as a democracy for a reason.

frankly, i feel that god's version of america shouldnt be a seething lake of fire. i feel that if i want to book a seat on the mayflower, i shouldnt have to be terminated at the end of the ride just because it didnt end where god begins. they should paint the word "mayflower" on the handbasket going to hell. someone will enjoy the irony, i hope.

a reply to: TzarChasm

whether it be a god, a human, an alien or some other kind of being fictional or factual, i do not support dictators. i despise them, in fact. this country was founded as a democracy for a reason.

I'm not missing anything. You are ignoring the Sovereignty of God. We are angry when other men like us tell us what to do, it's the height of arrogance to believe that the Sovereign Creator of the universe has no right to tell us what to do. It's His universe. He made it and us and therefore he gets to make the rules. Do you have children? Don't you have the right to make the rules of your own home?