"Muslims aren't doing enough to speak out...!"

Everyone I have spoken to has condemned the attacks.
Going around for a curry later to my next door neighbors and I can bet Mo is going to have a right rant about the events.
He can get very fiery and hopefully his curry will be also .

Theyre silenced because it would show just how badly western propaganda has lied about islam in order for the west to continue illegal .. immoral wars for profit.. theft of resources.. the stripping of rights of western citizens.. and that the entire "war on terror" is a charade used by western governments and arms dealers to profit from bloodshed.. misery and death..

a reply to: Expat888

I think you are hitting it on the head because if people felt mnore aligned and sympathetic with muslims there might be more pressure for the 'Allies' to keep their noses out of Libya - because Gadaffi was going to sell his oil in a different currency than the dollar, Iraq with its israel reaching skuds and of course the main one which is muslim countries without a rothschild hands on imposed central bank.

Then when as you say, you put in the wealth generated by the loans for war and the profit from arms selling - especially if you fund both sides then you have the profiteers of the world the bankers. These men should be sat upon mechanical elephants and walked right into the centre of the fighting to benefit from seeing how their money is turned into blood money - their blood! I'm sick of the bankers getting away with running the world, especialoly as they seem to come from a hardline desert religion also.

I think also the trouble is simply that there are too many muslims who have come in too fast in some countries without a settling in time and any form of adjustment, especially when you are getting no go areas in London.

The real trouble makers for me are the immans who smile at you then teach jihad and hatred. These are the men that need to be exposed and put in prison as they are the real threat to peace and security for all. I admit to blaming too many muslims for the steps our government has put in place which take away the security I had before they arrived and that is a problem.

OK we had the IRA but the sheer numbers of muslims means you simply don't know who to trust, especially when one failed atrocity here involved a doctor of medicine trying to blow up people in an airport. Its simply too illogical for many western brains to understand and the thought, he could have been treating you whilst you were ill is unsettling. How do you know if a muslim doctor is plotting to kill you, not all doctors appear to honour their hippocratic oath.
We do have bridges to build but will they be trustworthy bridges.

OP,

This is probably the single best thread i have read on ATS in months!

I was planning on a similar thread on discussing the same topic, but honestly you have done it better than i think I ever could.

If i may add one video, a video that I think everyone should watch.

This By Reza Aslan.

In general you are right OP. Everyone with a braincell knows that most muslims are appalled and just normal people who want to get on with their lives.
Yes, there are some protests and all the things that you listed, but none will actually work because it is like spitting on a large fire.
What really needs to happen is a complete unification of true muslims who had enough of their religion being dragged through the dirt and they need to become active by outing family members who seem to be too radical [is it really so difficult to see when your son/daughters keep spouting radical opinions and/or keep going to Pakistan a lot [not to visit auntie Bushra mind you]?

I would like people who go to mosques to report radical imams.
I would like all true muslims to tell these terrorists that they are being banned from being muslims [because they are not], denounce them officially!

I would like to see so much disgust against these islam-hijackers that they would feel uncomfortable calling themselves muslim and have to reveal their true colours.

Now having said that, I am perfectly aware that some of these things won't happen.
Parents will be reluctant to grass their own kids.
Imams won't be reported because they are holy men and the repercussions would be immense.
Anyone grassing on anyone else in the close knot community would be called a traitor.

There are ideals and there is reality. Muslim communities are different from ours, especially when they are in a foreign country. They have to stick together, it is their way. Anyone trying to do anything modern [such as actively outing radical uncle Ahmed] would be ostracised, sometimes probably even killed [girls and women have been 'honor' killed for much less].
Their way of life and their religion are self monitoring memes that will stop the majority from doing anything.
They are basically scared to get into s4it and lose family or life.

That is what comes down to. Fear.
Therefore what really needs to be done is not someone making a website with young educated muslims stating the obvious or one imam saying that they are disgusted etc.
What needs to happen is that muslims stop hindering themselves from rooting out the bad seeds, so those can be fought from within.

That however is an impossible task because it would mean a change to their way of family life, beliefs and security as a group.

I am not blaming them because I'd probably be exactly the same, especially as a woman. There is no way I'd out uncle Ahmed to western police. My life as I know it would be destroyed, or I would be topped off somehow.

That is the big problem here. Grand gestures won't change what happens on the level of reality and everyday life.

I think that so many are afraid of retaliation. I think that rule by terror has crept into that region even in countries that enjoyed modern era. I just can't stand that people can't be free from thugs and harsh minority groups. That after all these thousands of years, we cant' seem to find a way to not only be free, but to safeguard freedom, ie perhaps we all need to be trained and armed, and perhaps we all need to take philosophy and be involved in community groups, to ensure equality and freedom. I don't know what it takes to get people out of these molds and able to safeguard their freedom.

For anyone who does have the courage to speak out in harsh times, they're really brave. Some of those in the pictures are very brave.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Very well said.

As is this wonderful piece of radio...

How to deal with people demanding that muslims apologise for charliehebdo

And heres the President of a Muslim country not speaking out about fundamentalism...

www.frontpagemag.com...

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Very well said.

As is this wonderful piece of radio...

How to deal with people demanding that muslims apologise for charliehebdo

That. was. awesome.

It just goes to show you that people want to find a scapegoat to blame, and instead of just blaming the actual individuals who did the acts, they blame a whole community of people who HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Mind boggling.

so....people here think Islam is a tolerant religion?....show me a freedom and equality loving Islamic nation, please....I must be ignorant of where that place is on the map.

originally posted by: jimmyx
so....people here think Islam is a tolerant religion?....show me a freedom and equality loving Islamic nation, please....I must be ignorant of where that place is on the map.

emmm Indonesia comes to mind.

a reply to: jimmyx

I can show you a little one and a large nation both in Europe but i won't because i don't think Islam is a tolerant religion. It is important to think for yourself and understand those people are not potential murderers by default. Nation does not equal religion except for Jews (who else)

originally posted by: jimmyx
so....people here think Islam is a tolerant religion?....show me a freedom and equality loving Islamic nation, please....I must be ignorant of where that place is on the map.

Bahrain .. malaysia... indonesia .. just to name a few ..

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
What will be good enough?

I think they are waiting for us to join them in the fight against our own extremism. You know join it late like in WW2

a reply to: jimmyx

Countries and populations...

Indonesia 204,847,000
Turkey 74,660,000
Morocco 32,381,000
Tunisia 10,349,000
Jordan 6,397,000
Algeria 34,780,000

Theres 366 million people (more than the population of the USA) for starters.

Actually, Brigitte Gabriel does a very good job of explaining how I feel about the situation.



Look, It's 2015 and you'd have to be a really ignorant piece of work to believe the whole "Every Muslim is a Terrorist" rhetoric. Islam is full of good people and it's great that they are speaking out against this filth but something needs to be done about the 300 million people who are just dedicated to the destruction of the Western World.

I'll leave you with my favorite quote from the video I shared.

"It's High time we stick Political Correctness in the Garbage... Where it belongs"

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

S&F for a great OP

If all muslims have to condemn the actions of crazy/sick people who happens to believe in the same religion, as them?
Then shouldnt:

All Christians people condemn the actions of pedophiles, by people who "work" for god?
Or condemn the actions of people who judge or dont forgive, and still say the are chrisitans??

Or how about all money users (capitalist) condemn the actions of those who kill in the name of money?? This happens a lot more than terrorist attacks, it happens EVERY SINGLE DAY!!

Lets all condemn our fellow man for his actions or how about we just condemn ourself for all the s#¤% we do??

We believe in free speech and all have the rights to say what they want, as long as you remember to say what i want you to say...

Peace

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: jimmyx
so....people here think Islam is a tolerant religion?....show me a freedom and equality loving Islamic nation, please....I must be ignorant of where that place is on the map.

emmm Indonesia comes to mind.

so why would a tolerant nation (which you think Indonesia is), need a governmental religious court ( Pengadilan Agama) it's official name, to "codify" sharia law?...Indonesia, by the way, has had a lot of violent clashes even after Suharto left, and a new "republic" government was instituted.....is it headed in the right direction? maybe...but, I think the jury is still out on that one.

a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

As a Christian, I hear the whole "Christians are Pedophiles" bullcrap on a weekly basis. The big difference here is that I'm not going out and killing people who are speaking out or mocking my faith.

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: jimmyx

Countries and populations...

Indonesia 204,847,000
Turkey 74,660,000
Morocco 32,381,000
Tunisia 10,349,000
Jordan 6,397,000
Algeria 34,780,000

Theres 366 million people (more than the population of the USA) for starters.

all these countries have equality and freedom?....no problem with publicly criticizing Islam?, or their own leader? women get to vote, own land, start businesses, dress as they want to?