I have a question for the freemasons here

From your website, when I check out info on your books I see that your a 3 time winner for Stardoves Book of the Month Award.

I find it curious that the book of the month award insignia is the same as the insignia for the OTO.

oto-usa.org...

I'm assuming the Stardoves are not members of OTO?

hmmm....

The purpose of Freemasonry is:

What ever you make it out to be, for some it is doing charitable works. Others seem attracted to the brotherhood aspect, and still yet others see the status of the fraternity and some enjoy it for the pageantry that is the rituals.

Unfortunately there is no one answer for every member.

As fir the question of high level Masons, I feel as though this question has been answered already. You are never more of a Mason then the night that you are raised to the sublime degree of a Master Mason. There are other degrees, however they are largely ceremonial in nature and you must be a Master Mason in good standing before you can advance to either the Shrine or Consistory.

I hope that you found this to be helpful

The way I see the evil/ good concept is like this: Let it be dark grey and gloomy for a week and see how much you enjoy the first sunny day that comes out, man you almost bask in that glorious sunlight. Without negatives no one would know how to appreciate anything. Without winter we wouldn't appreciate spring. Without negatives we would soon take every good thing completely for granted and probably get lost in a pool of misery. Without bad days there'd be no good days.

Originally posted by TgSoe
Without negatives we would soon take every good thing completely for granted and probably get lost in a pool of misery. Without bad days there'd be no good days.

Don't you think that flawed though?
Why must one need a negative to recognise a positive?

To my mind, the problem is that we don't see the positive for what it is. The trick is to find the positive and you will never need the negative.

It's like love. Normally when we feel it, it's tinged with negativeness - selfishness, need, pain etc. But pure love on it's own is something entirely different. I believe that once you can learn about and feel that pure love, you don't need those negatives. And because it's pure you will never take it for granted.

Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by TgSoe
Without negatives we would soon take every good thing completely for granted and probably get lost in a pool of misery. Without bad days there'd be no good days.

Don't you think that flawed though?
Why must one need a negative to recognise a positive?

To my mind, the problem is that we don't see the positive for what it is. The trick is to find the positive and you will never need the negative.

It's like love. Normally when we feel it, it's tinged with negativeness - selfishness, need, pain etc. But pure love on it's own is something entirely different. I believe that once you can learn about and feel that pure love, you don't need those negatives. And because it's pure you will never take it for granted.

Well I think the point Pike was really getting at is that things need an opposite. Without short people no one would stand out as being tall. Without ugly no one would stand out as exceptionly good looking. Without loosers no body would win. If all were the same it woud be a dull world. I'm not condoning evil, just saying without contrast in the world it would all be similar to a painting with one color. Everything here on earth seems to have an opposite of itself.

Religion, and in particular Christianity speaks of salvation and grace from the Creator. Freemasonry, in no way, shape, or form, petitions for, or distributes grace or salvation. Were Freemasonry a religion, then it might be in conflict with religious values or feelings of brother Masons. You might feel that this is merely a definitional issue, but to others that definition is a very important one.

Originally posted by michaelsharp
For me its just a definitional issue that all.
So what if Freemasonry is a religion?
so what?
what's the big deal? its got philosophy, its got ritual, its got institutionalized beliefs, its got religious texts. Its seems obvious that its a religion.
but what's wrong with that?
IMHO, not a darn thing.

Originally posted by davidg
Religion, and in particular Christianity speaks of salvation and grace from the Creator. Freemasonry, in no way, shape, or form, petitions for, or distributes grace or salvation. Were Freemasonry a religion, then it might be in conflict with religious values or feelings of brother Masons. You might feel that this is merely a definitional issue, but to others that definition is a very important one.

David,

I agree with what you said, but Michael still makes an important point. Freemasonry is not a religion, but even if it were, my religion would still be of no one's business but my own, and we would not owe the trolls who've been popping up in here en masse over the last week any apology for it.


[edit on 3-1-2005 by Masonic Light]

freemasonry is not a religion, religion is forbidden to be discussed at meetings. There is nothing in freemasonry that will interfere in any way with your civil, moral or religious duties. For all the anti-masons out there who say we are satanists would satanits sit with an open bible?

Originally posted by Masonic Light
...the trolls who've been popping up in here en masse over the last week...

I suspect the "new trolls" are for the most part the same "old trolls" repackaged with a new ATS username, but still retain the same tired old rhetoric.
.

originally posted by AxeMan;

Once you reach The Sublime Degree of Master Mason (3rd Degree), you are all the Mason you ever will be.

Yeah, but what about the levels on masonary that we dont know about? (presuming there are higher levels, I think there are.)
For all we know there are lvl 100 masons. '3rd level mason' could just be the first step of a 100 step staircase (or pyramid )

Originally posted by Marquis
originally posted by AxeMan;

For all we know there are lvl 100 masons. '3rd level mason' could just be the first step of a 100 step staircase (or pyramid

)

There are websites claiming such high degrees but are quickly refuted here by Masons. I don't think anyone will truly know until he joins. Like the Axeman said," you can read all you want to about Masonry but until you join you know nothing-N-O-T-H-I-N-G about masonry.

There are websites claiming such high degrees but are quickly refuted here by Masons. I don't think anyone will truly know until he joins. Like the Axeman said," you can read all you want to about Masonry but until you join you know nothing-N-O-T-H-I-N-G about masonry.

I Know....................................

Masons are sworn to secretes

Shriners and Masons are seperate , but the same

Mason lodges have been active for centuries.

Masons will ALWAYS help another in their brotherhood

Masons have been the people in power...........

George Washington.......J Edger Hoover...............

I know the masons are a group dedicated to achieve Mason ends.
( to improve humanity with mason reasoning)

I know the words "The Worshipful J.Edger Hoover" turns my stomach

I know Masons found/fund/create other organizations

I know they become let these groups to opperate independently after some time passes


I know there are a lot of "coincidences" involve with Masons.

I know the CLUB opperations of the Mafia(BAD) and the Masons (good?) are remarkably similar.

I know the Masons have been involved with religions and the foundation of religions for centuries.



I know I am suspect of a group that will deny its past and take no responsibilty for actions of the collective group.

I believe that what is here so shall in be in the next


Circumstantial

Hehe.

I guess that's actually what you would call "Circumstantial, circumstancial, circumstancial evidence" gleamer. You see, half the time the author of that website doesn't even know if the people he mentions are actually Freemasons!!!!

But thanks for the link anyway. As anyone can see, the website actually refers to 95% of the Freemasons that it does mention as "heroes". I guess there is some truth to be found even in your crackpot links huh?


By the way. What are you doing surfing the net you silly boy? Didn't you read the bit halfway down where it tells you that the worldwide web is a masonic trap? Run gleamer, RUN!!!!!!!!

The reader can see that the masons have no real answers -
Though leveler is some what limited in his understanding.
The points,cicumstances,history, methods, et.al. are like dots on the paper
The careful observer can connect them and begin seeing the picture.
As I said earilier - arguing with masons is quite a waste of time.
They won't accept responsibility-only the craft

Originally posted by GLeamer

They won't accept responsibility-only the craft

Are you for real? You claim that Freemasons won't accept responsibility yet you post a link that claims that Freemasons take responsibility for whole nations? What sort of doublespeak rot is that?

Logic, Gleamer. Let it be your friend.

Gleamer i connected allyour dots guess what i got

Originally posted by Marquis
originally posted by AxeMan;

Once you reach The Sublime Degree of Master Mason (3rd Degree), you are all the Mason you ever will be.

Yeah, but what about the levels on masonary that we dont know about? (presuming there are higher levels, I think there are.)
For all we know there are lvl 100 masons. '3rd level mason' could just be the first step of a 100 step staircase (or pyramid

)

Well, there is the York Rite, Scottish Rite, The Shrine, and lots of other affiliate organizations, some of which I probably haven't even heard of yet. There is even one commonly called the Rite of Memphis and Mizraim which has 90 or 96 degrees (Although I am not certain about the recognition status with regular lodges; ML can tell you all about it I'm sure). I would say that what you say is partially true, that the Blue Degrees are like the entry point, or the "first step" as you put it. The thing is, Those additional degrees (not "higher") only elaborate on the Blue Degrees. Granted, at this point I haven't been through it, so I don't know first hand, but I think I've got pretty good sources of information and I trust them.

Just because something is unknown doesn't make it sinister. It makes the knowledge accessible only to those who would seek it, IMHO.


P.S. ROFL stalkingwolf


[edit on 1/8/05 by The Axeman]

Freemasons are ordinary people who have no more power than any one else. They are people who believe in the majesty of the Supreme Being. They believe in helping all the people of the communities in which they live in. They have a very strict moral code which they are bound to follow. Why is it that some people hate them for reasons only they can understand? Freemasons have been persecuted by many forms of absolute Government and many of their members were murdered by such Governments. Ib Countries where there is freedom we find Freemasonry and in Countries where they are despotic we see that Freemasonry is banned.

Gerard