Unicorns

Are they real? Did they exist and continue to do so today? I've heard them mentioned in the bible and dating back to Ancient China. Some say they are nothing more then a myth and some say that they were infact real and continue to live in certain areas of the world today.

I don't know if they are still alive and striving somewhere today and only seen by certain 'chosen' eyes, but I do think that at one time they did roam the earth much like the dinosaur.

There are many different myths and legands behind this mystical/magical creature. So what are your thoughts?
Magestica

They are just myths, myths are very funny in that they can seem to be so real, or have a real back ground.

But you need to seperate the "fantasy" from the fact, and unicorns have about as much fact as the nordic "light elves" do.

For one, unicorns could be what the southern peoples called the antlered animals of the northern climes.

It's much harder to image something without a picture, so today we feel that the people making these stories HAD to know exactly what the thing looked like.

In reality they were hearing about something that the person telling them probably had never even seen.

Welcome to the game of "Opperator".

Sorry, Magestica,
I know you wanted a lively discussion on this, but it's an open and shut case...

Unicorn 'horns', as sold at high prices in medieval Europe, are really the tusks of a type of whale called the 'narwhale'. For centuries, Icelandic whalers sold their tusks at very high prices, urging on the legend of the unicorn as they did so. If you look at photos of modern narwhales... you will recognize the unicorn's horn...

There are, however, extinct species of animals related to the horse that had very long canines, if you're looking for a real-world source for unicorn legends (though, again, the unicorn legends we recognize were created by Icelandic sailors, one or two generations removed from the Vikings).

... as an addon,
Some scientists believe narwahle numbers were much greater than they are today... untile widepread hunting if them began centuries ago.

...if you're looking for real unicorns, Magestica, look at the narwhale, which is an intelligent animal as 'cute' as the storied unicorn.

Jim

my spelling was atrocious above... forgive my shoddy typing...

This does make some sense to me. Especially being that the unicorn is mentioned in the bible and yet was not aboard Noahs' Ark. The thing that confuses me though is how it evolved from a 4 legged land creature to a whale...all tales and myths describe it as a land creature. This is the first I've heard of it being a sea creature.

I lived in Iceland for 2 years and never once heard this mentioned. Course that means little to nothing as I may have not been concerned or paying attention..but none the less, it is a very interesting theory. But I don't give it 100% closed case...too many other legends behind it to just close it off as this being the truth.

The story behind it though could have been that it was infact a rare and magical creation of God and and perhaps He decided to change it's form somewhat to be destined to live in the waters and thus surviving the great flood without being on the ark. Maybe this is why there is so much confusion and myth behind it?

Thanks for your imput and thoughts..
Magestica

Well, they may very well have lived. Just like some animals were here, then died off. Giant Sloth, Saber Tooth Tiger, Smilidon, Wooly Mammoth. All those existed, yet none alive today. Of course, we have found fossils and frozen bodie of those.

Ok, so what about the "living fossil" fish whatever it's called? No one thought they were alive, then hey, caught one.

Of course, people knew they had existed due to fossils. The fact that none have been found of a unicorn is something one needs to think about. Maybe they were all hunted? All hunted and killed, the way their bodies were disposed of meant none were in right situation to fossilize. And ones that weren't hunted and killed were found by people, stripped of the horn and meat and so forth, and again taken out of a way to fossilize.

Some would say well, at least one would make it to fossilization. Yes, one would. But then an earthquake happens and it is destroyed, a flood, volcano, so forth. Out of the billions of dinosaurs that lived, only a few fossils are found. So if only a couple million unicorns lived and were wiped out by over hunting, and only several thousand made it into a situation to fossilize, then actually are still together today, who knows where the fossil is? Could be in a mountain, under a building, under a road, under a jungle, so forth.

But to me, they never existed. But always fun to try and explain things. Like the Narwal. That was used to say unicorns existed. Why/how? Every land animal has a sea animal was a theory used in old days. So if the Narwal existed in the sea, what was it's land counter part?????

First off, sorry I mispelled 'narwhal' above...

I didn't mean to say that unicorns evolved into narwhals, but that the mysth of the unicorn was based on the narwhal, the tusks of which were sold as unicorn horns.

Below are some links to sites about narwhals. The second you see the narwhal pictures, Magestica, you will know exactly what I am talking about (the third link below is actually a site on unicorns, but it also talks about narwhals a little):

members.aol.com...

www.coloradonarwhal.com...

www.unicornlady.net...

Look at the tusks. They tell the story..

Also, magestica, your knew Avatar is sharper than a pair of scissors. If that's actually you, you're too hot to spend your time posting on boards like this...

Thank you for the links!! Certainly looks like the horn of a 'unicorn'..I've never seen a picture of a narwhal before now!!

But you know what?? Having seen those sites, makes me all the more believe that it was/is possible for a land creature to have a horn like that, which would make it all the more plausable that the unicorn did/does infact exist.

James the Lesser mentioned this too, that aquatic creatures all have a twin land creature and this I've heard to be fact...thanks James too, you added some great thoughts about this!

Thanks to both of you Very interesting to say the least..
~Mags

Here are some links on horse evolution.. sorry, I have no idea how reliable the first two are, but the second was written by a PhD who works for the smithsonian, so... I only took classes on human evolution in college:

www.talkorigins.org...

66.216.19.63...

www.equinestudies.org...


I'm beginning to see what you're saying, Magestica-- if other large animals can grow large horns/antlers/tusks for mating or combat reasons, why not something in the horse family? After all, the narwhal is the only cetacean with a horn, and deers, moose, and elk all have antlers, yet are similar to horses..

My guess, though, is that if unicorns did exist, that they wouldn't be as 'pretty' as the unicorns you see in art... they'd be more likely to look like a prehistoric horse with a single antler-like horn... in time, the animal would be beautified in mythology and the narwhal tusk substituted for the real unicorn antler. Maybe?

Jim

is similar to that of dragons...

Like dragons, unicorns were depicted by almost every culture on earth...with many similarities. Too many, in my eyes, to be purely fantasy. I've always believed that some giant reptiles as well as horned horses, survived into medieval times, but were then wiped out. The Narwhal issue is correct. Which actually supports, rather than refutes unicorns existing. As they became rarer, other sources were found, much like the modern ivory trade... I've seen some medieval art, that depicts unicorns extremely realistically, in posed portraits. As a student of art, and art techniques, it does seem that these artists were working from living specimens, and not exercising artistic license...

Thanks for the compliment Mag.

An the websites OIMD.

Well, if anyone has theories on others, go to my crypto theory posts. If you want, but hose sites were interesting.

And Gaz, with the artistry, seen some very good paintings myself of things that may never have existed. Like sea serpents, unicorns, dragons, chukulaka(old ugly looking thing, looks like an early chupacabra, except uglier). All old paintings in muesems(sp?) from great artists, yet no proof of the things they painted.

Of course, today you can make things look real, even if fake. Like the dinosaurs in the Jurrassic Park series.(the movies were ok, the books were great!) Can't wait for the new one, again Robert T. Bakker, the paleo who found the first Utah Raptor, wrote several books on his digs, one fiction, is helping with the designs and actions and movement and so forth of the dinosaurs. Except this time they will be making changes. We all know the Brachiosaurus, and how it looks. But one thing is, the nose, it is said to be on the forehead. yet looking at their skulls and elephant skulls, they noticed it was very much like the nose of an elephant. So maybe had a trunk there, on their forhead.

Anyways, this is a great topic, lots of good posts! Bye.

Speaking as an artist, we can come up with weird stuff that never existed and make it look pretty good. Unicorns with two horns-- no problem. Horse-sized wolves with heads like crocodiles and the feet of lions? Just toss the money at me. Manticores (human faces with triple rows of teeth and lionlike bodies and scales and scorpion tails)? How many would you like, milord?

Woman's head on a mule's body with the feet of a camel and a peacock's tail? How many Buraqs do you need (tiny plug for a wonderful comic book)? www.grovestreet.com...

Charcoal colored creatures with tubular heads and skeletal bodies and double jaws? Just chat up H.R. Giger www.hrgiger.com...

Artists don't need to see something to make up the fantastic. They don't need models. They don't even need you standing around and feeding concepts to them. We do all right on our own.

Hmmm, sorry but I dont think horses have ever competed with eachother over females by ramming or head butting, which horns and antlers are pretty much exclusively for. I could be wrong.

I have, however, seen a type of goat from the middle east. Its owner/shepherd or whatever would take it's 2 horns at an early age and tie them together so that they grew into what resembled a Unicorn horn over time.

"And Gaz, with the artistry, seen some very good paintings myself of things that may never have existed."

I realize this, and do it often. No, what I meant was, there are some paintings, such as a woman posing with a small unicorn colt, that are obviously done with live models. However, they could have used a small colt and then added the horn of course. But what I was pointing out, was that the attention paid to the horn seemed more like it was rendering rather than imagining. And, there are other such works. It was one point of many.

The most valid point seems to be how prolific they are with almost every culture. Like sea monsters and dragons, I believe there were real inspirations for these, which now are extinct. Or some, such as the gigantic octopuses recently discovered, are just being found again....

It's widely accepted today that 'Unicorns' were simply early descriptions of the Rhino, brought back to Europe by early travellers...

J.