It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Debunking Abduction Debunkers

page: 35
28
<< 32  33  34    36 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 04:15 AM
link   
a reply to: DJW001

It isn't exactly made-up although it still falls somewhat short of being a 'statistic.' The figure came about through ufologists travelling the circuit. I think J. Allen Hynek started it but it wouldn't surprise me if earlier personalities in the field had also used it. Stan Friedman has used it at all of his appearances.

It came about through asking for a show of hands at appearances.

First, the audience would be asked to put their hands up if they'd 'seen a UFO.' Hands would go up and people would feel that confirmation and community buzz. Then they'd be asked to put their hands up if they'd reported the sighting. Hardly anyone would put their hand up and the rough, anecdotal survey of overall numbers came to be described in the figure of ~10%.

You don't have to point out validity of sample-sizes or sample bias here - it's already noted! All that aside, it's a figure that might be somewhere nearby to accurate? Intuitively, I tend to the suspicion that fewer than 1 in 100 people go on to report seeing something they couldn't explain.




posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 04:19 AM
link   
I think the best explanation about abduction by alien is the one of Martin Cannon!!!



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 05:16 AM
link   

originally posted by: PeterMcFly
I think the best explanation about abduction by alien is the one of Martin Cannon!!!



It's certainly one of the scariest.



posted on Feb, 20 2015 @ 07:22 AM
link   

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE


It is thought that only 5%-10% of all UFO sightings/encounters are reported, and even fewer abductions are reported, due to the fact that most people have no memory of them, if there are memories they are very disjointed, and info learned in hypno-therapy can be shocking and embarrassing.


Of course, this statistic is entirely made up. There is absolutely no data to support it. It is like saying "23% of all unicorns have mottled fur." This is one of the reasons no serious psychologist takes this "research" seriously.


As for abductions, researchers used similar potentially humiliating crimes such as rape and molestation and how often they are reported.

As for just UFO sightings, all you have to do is go to this thread on members who have seen at least one UFO and see how many indicated that they reported it or didn't report it, the number is very few. If you like I will start another thread and ask people; of those of you who have seen a UFO, how many have reported it? I'm sure the number will be less than 10%, probably less than 5%.

I don't why you have to mention unicorns. That sounds like the official government ridicule as mentioned by an ex-CIA director in this thread


edit on 20-2-2015 by PlanetXisHERE because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-2-2015 by PlanetXisHERE because: epiphany

edit on 20-2-2015 by PlanetXisHERE because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2015 @ 10:39 AM
link   
Couple decades ago I took the lead of an arch-skeptic acquaintance who was doing a sort of social experiment as part of his studying UFOlogy (he was a REAL skeptic - he was genuinely studying it but didn't yet believe anything, but was open minded enough to be critical yet considering). He was wearing this cap that said UFO on it and when people said something, he would respond with some utterly, totally-serious comment that implied acceptance of the topic and then move on to something else in conversation -- like it was no big deal at all -- and given he was a no-nonsense brainiac, this was often disconcerting for people.

I didn't wear the hat, but I would just drop things into ordinary conversations, at work or out and about, that had the same effect -- some totally-taking-it-seriously or isn't-it-obvious-of-course comment that implied acceptance and then move on. At the time in particular, I was also a very left-brain (sic) sort and it totally astonished people.

And we had the same experience, which was funny. People would laugh, often in a mocking way, briefly. And then later, people would start following you around. Trying to get you alone, around a corner, in a room, in the restroom. And then they'd be pouring out these stories to you like how they were driving to thanksgiving with a whole family in the car and they showed up hours late with no explanation of why. Or how they and their wife woke up startled one night at like 2am and his mom from across the country was standing at the foot of the bed and told him, "I love you." They both saw and heard her. And 20 minutes later the police call and say she was killed in a car accident. He even had people show him major wound scars that they said appeared literally overnight like they were old and they have no idea how, and one guy who actually had to have his doc testify he'd never had eye surgery because he had evidence of LASIK which was messing up his Air Force app, and he and his sister abruptly quit wearing glasses when they were much younger years prior. And often the people who were the most scoffing/invalidating in front of others, were those with the wildest stories privately.

The thing was, these people weren't your ordinary wingnuts (if there is such a thing), they often said they'd never told anybody else this, it was like they had this splinter festering in them and nowhere to go with it and suddenly, someone they respected as intelligent actually gave them validation for the topic or something like it, and they had this desperate need to share. They were serious and they wanted it kept private, they just needed to tell someone. It was so astonishing how common this was, that "ordinary people" none of who ever said stuff publicly including those who actually MOCKED such topics publicly, turned out to have a surprising number of their own up-close experiences, from UFOs to missing time to well, just about everything you can imagine.

I think expecting that even 5% of such experiences are even said publicly -- never mind 'reported', to who?! -- is probably a huge inflation. Asking people at UFO conferences or threads how many report it is getting the group of subjects most likely to have reported it! The REAL stats are likely vastly lower.
edit on 20-2-2015 by RedCairo because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2015 @ 10:59 AM
link   
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE


As for abductions, researchers used similar potentially humiliating crimes such as rape and molestation and how often they are reported.

Right. So do you think Jacobs was playing the odds when he was psychologically abusive to his subjects?
edit on 20-2-2015 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2015 @ 11:56 PM
link   
ZR I think you may be a tad obsessed with that. It's worth obsessing on for its own sake, I agree, but you just used it in a context where it doesn't really even make sense.

Maybe we should open a thread just for kicking DJ's voodoo doll effigy around.

RC



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 01:15 AM
link   
a reply to: RedCairo
Yeah, I know. It made sense at the time.

Hey, join us at the Non-Extraterrestrial UFO Hypotheses. Getting into some interesting stuff there.



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 07:38 AM
link   
a reply to: RedCairo

Funny but interesting story, and really confirms the point I was trying to make, even if anecdotally.

There is a far-out theory that some of the biggest debunkers may have had experiences that they forget, and they may want to check themselves for unexplained scars and/or implants.




posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 09:18 AM
link   
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE


As for just UFO sightings, all you have to do is go to this thread on members who have seen at least one UFO and see how many indicated that they reported it or didn't report it, the number is very few. If you like I will start another thread and ask people; of those of you who have seen a UFO, how many have reported it? I'm sure the number will be less than 10%, probably less than 5%.


In other words, 95% of all "UFO sightings" do not seem important enough for the witnesses to report. How does that relate to your contention that extra-terrestrials exist and abduct human beings in far greater numbers than are reported?



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 09:20 AM
link   
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE


There is a far-out theory that some of the biggest debunkers may have had experiences that they forget, and they may want to check themselves for unexplained scars and/or implants.


In other words, the existence of people who expect evidence for something is itself evidence that it exists....



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 02:21 PM
link   

originally posted by: DJW001
In other words, 95% of all "UFO sightings" do not seem important enough for the witnesses to report.

Hmmn. But wait, I think you have some assumptions and strawmen all mixed up in there. I (for example) have never officially 'reported' any of my own anomalous and potentially 'alien' (whatever that can be) experiences, which are extensive -- despite writing and publishing a case study about them, despite talking about it on the internet a good deal. To whom would I report it? Why?? I mean if for example, the government actually openly acknowledged such things and genuinely wanted to collect info on it, I'd report to that, sure. But no such thing exists. I'm not interested in the abduction groups, and frankly nearly everybody I've ever seen in media seems like a lunatic to me (excepting Dr. Jacques Vallee for whom I have a great deal of respect). What are my 'reporting' options? MUFON of the rectal-probing or Greer of the flightlight-signalling? Seriously, THESE are my options?? I think I'll just keep my own counsel in that case.

Your assumption that a person has an experience and "it doesn't seem important enough to the person to report" is a huge ball of assumptions and most of them wrong. I would need to believe it was important to someone ELSE and that the someone else had some useful or at least interesting thing to do with my data. It's not that it's not important to ME, it's that there's at least two elements in that equation and the other side, the whomever-I'm-reporting-to, is a problem.


How does that relate to your contention that extra-terrestrials exist and abduct human beings in far greater numbers than are reported?

I would say it relates to his contention that something 'which is often interpreted as that' happens in far greater numbers than 'reported' in whatever fashion someone's using for counting. That debate point is mixing three separate things here -- an anomalous experience, and the frequency of an anomalous experience, and an interpretation of that anomalous experience. That the third thing may be missing or incorrect doesn't really invalidate the first two, does it?

RC



posted on Feb, 22 2015 @ 08:22 AM
link   
a reply to: RedCairo

Excellent points. You have a good grasp on logic that eludes others.

Many eyewitness reports go something like this:

"I never believed in UFO's until........." and they describe their experience.

Many describe it as a life altering, life changing experience; it changed the way they viewed the universe. When one is undergoing such an experience, the last thing on their mind is "I wonder where I'll report this" if no one is being attacked or harmed.

Later, upon reflection, one might ponder "Should I report this?" and the next logical question would be "to whom should I report this?" People play out scenarios of calling their local cop shop, and imagine the law enforcement there has the same kind of view of UFO's the witness had prior to their sighting - and they can extrapolate to the reaction and think "why waste my time and tarnish my credibility?" - can anyone disagree with that? So, if you're not going to call the local cop shop, who are you going to call? The CIA, NSA, FBI, Air Force? Most would probably want to stay off the radar of the first two, and the latter two would probably give you the standard response - "Oh, we stopped looking into those when Project Bluebook showed there was nothing to them and shut down in 1969".

So people are left with NUFORC and MUFON and other smaller UFO reporting agencies.

And the witness is left with these thoughts; "I know what I just saw, and it probably wasn't from Earth, it just changed my view of reality, yet the government doesn't want to deal with it, and I'm left with these tiny civilian reporting groups?" Talk about cognitive dissonance.



posted on Mar, 2 2015 @ 03:16 PM
link   
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

Awesome post!


I'm especially interested in the generational abduction theory.

I remember my father telling me before that he didn't believe in God, but what he did believe was that aliens genetically engineered us.

I've always wondered since then if something occurred when he was younger that makes him believe that.

Also my father is the biggest skeptic I know when it comes to the paranormal etc..so that definitely took me by surprise.

It has always also been an uncomfortable subject that has never been talked about between us since unfortunately.



posted on Mar, 3 2015 @ 06:22 PM
link   
a reply to: threeeyesopen

Hey threeeyesopen, thanks for joining in the thread!

Here is a link to your thread on your abduction experiences for those who missed it:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So there's no way to call your Dad up and just ask him about this? How about your Mom?

Do you have any kids, and if so have they talked about anything strange? If you don't have kids, would this situation cause you to consider maybe not having any?

Had you heard about Dr. Jacobs before? What do you think about what he is saying, overall, does it sync up with your experiences?




edit on 3-3-2015 by PlanetXisHERE because: addition



posted on Mar, 3 2015 @ 07:56 PM
link   
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

I have tried asking both of them on different occasions but they either change the subject or will say something like I don't want to talk about it.

No kids for me at the moment, and no it would not discourage me..if anything I'll be more open with my own children's experiences than my parents have been with me.

No I had not heard of DR. Jacobs before until recently, and as for what he says, well it does measure up quite a bit with my own experiences.

I think what's important to keep in mind though is that everyone will have somewhat of a different experience..so although someone may not have all the "symptoms", it's not right to dismiss their claim without first hearing them out. That's just a general message from me to everyone.

Furthermore I was talking with my friend who witnessed the close encounter with me and he still remembers it vividly. I'd asked him if we had any missing time between when we first saw the UFO up close and when it warped out of our reality (yea I said warped because we saw it open a type of wormhole and disappear into it). He cannot recall nor can I if we had any missing time or not but none the less the experience will stay with us forever.



posted on Mar, 12 2015 @ 07:59 PM
link   
I just have one question..

Why does an abduction necessarily have to be a UFO doing it? What if it's someone (or group) here on the planet doing it to people and then making them THINK it's UFO's so as to make them seem crazy..

Just some cannon fodder for the fire..



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 04:50 AM
link   

originally posted by: vkey08
I just have one question..

Why does an abduction necessarily have to be a UFO doing it? What if it's someone (or group) here on the planet doing it to people and then making them THINK it's UFO's so as to make them seem crazy..

Just some cannon fodder for the fire..


Yes, that is a good and legitimate question and a hypothesis I wouldn't rule out.

Some of those who have been abducted say they remember seeing military personnel on the craft they were taken to - such memories usually elicited during regression hypnosis. That is about all we have of reports of other humans being involved.

Other memories often include "the grays", as in aliens. Some of the technology described seems otherworldly, such as moving abductees usually through walls, doors, ceilings - would seem to involve changing the quantum state of the material of the human body, I don't think any group on Earth has this technology, but they could.

We have to think about the motivation and risk/reward factor of some human group conducting these abductions. They seem to return most people, couldn't they just hire people if they wanted to do experiments? What about the risks of getting caught? How do they erase people's memories? From where did they get the enormous resources to conduct these abductions all over the world? Where do they actually hold these people when they are abducted? People actually disappear, other people are searching all over for them, there isn't just some RV parked up the street with the abductees in them.

So, is some other human group conducting the abductions? Possible, but I don't think it likely, paradoxically, given the mind control and technology involved, ET's make more sense? Does that sound crazy?



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 04:13 PM
link   
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

surely the experimenter's would have enough meatstock in the mental wards to carry out any depraved psychological/physical testing , same goes for the cows , why not rear your own special cows for the job, plus you could eat them afterwards , 'steak a la exsanguination' or 'well done'

I think the government would get quickly caught , if they where responsible.

funbox



posted on Mar, 14 2015 @ 12:07 PM
link   

originally posted by: funbox
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

surely the experimenter's would have enough meatstock in the mental wards to carry out any depraved psychological/physical testing , same goes for the cows , why not rear your own special cows for the job, plus you could eat them afterwards , 'steak a la exsanguination' or 'well done'

I think the government would get quickly caught , if they where responsible.

funbox






I would agree funbox, people wanting to do experimentation on humans have never had a short supply, be it in institutions, the homeless, the 3rd world as sad and as tragic as that may be.

I also agree that the government may be good at black bags ops that are small, limited in scope and out of the way, but going into hundreds of neighborhoods at home and abroad, kidnapping and returning people on a huge scale over decades? No way that could be kept secret or done repeatedly with perfection.



new topics

top topics



 
28
<< 32  33  34    36 >>

log in

join