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Debunking Abduction Debunkers

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posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 09:24 AM
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For me it was Carlos Castenada. I think I read the whole series. They had a profound effect on me and I drew a lot of meaning from them. I was really disappointed but not surprised to learn he was a fraud. But you know what, bits and pieces of those books are still with me. Every time I see a bird fly by or some such thing, there is meaning there or a synchronicity of some sort. I owe that feeling to a fraud whose behavior was probably worse than Jacobs.

I understand. I think. But I am not on the same page with that either, for a couple reasons.

First, after a couple years of the most bizarre experiences of my life, in late 1995 I read CC's "The Art of Dreaming." Now, I had read all his stuff in high school. Eh, it was interesting, but I really wasn't into it so much as some friends. This was basically 12 years later. TAD absolutely knocked my socks off. It had a whole bunch of stuff that was exactly what I had been experiencing, and I mean chronically close to daily for a long time we're not just talking one experience, and I could not find anybody else anywhere else that was talking about that, that had given me any clues. I'm talking about things like the inorganics, but there was more. Been eons since then so I don't recall now. I wouldn't have even read it -- as his stuff was not my thing as I vaguely recalled from a dozen years prior -- except I was staying with a friend, bored, and they had it sitting on the dresser.

Now, maybe he was a poser and he was merely talking about stuff he heard from someone else. In that case, who, because I haven't seen much besides his stuff on it although I'm not remotely well read on it I admit. Or, perhaps everybody already knew about those things but me. But it was spot on, and I was so hugely relieved to find someone else who in writing about it, basically validated it (the if you're crazy at least you're apparently not alone feeling) for me. These were spontaneous but chronic experiences for me, although they did follow on a good deal of chakra/energy work, and I felt incredibly grateful for the book.

Second, In my life I have been around quite a number of people who are -- or rather, were, at least -- intensely spiritual, often in rather metaphysical ways. Their intuition was off the charts, their focus and charisma was amazing, they were utterly sincere, and as mystics go at least, they were the real deal. Some of them I spent serious time with, I had reason to know. But then over time, they started to degrade. Literally, like a psychological devolution. I often watched this happen with actual grief, and confusion over why, and helplessness.

There is a famous saying in metaphysics, that 'When the divine light shines through you, it amplifies ALL your patterns. Not just the good ones."

Many of them eventually ended up almost the worst sorts of people in so many ways, it was simply mind boggling that the person they began as, could have fallen so far. They began nearly or fullly celibate or at least monogamous and ended up in orgies. They began quiet wise counselors and ended up loud insulting jerks. They began with empowering people and ended up nearly enslaving people, dysfunctional and jealous and power hungry. They began with incredible integrity and ended up nearly pathological liars and cheats. It's damn near a testament that the path is just not a safe one for many people.

But the point I'm making is that I knew these people through it. They were legitimately good, serious, well studied and insightful people when they began. They were basically like psycho frauds at the other side. If this can happen to quite a few people I have known and observed over time (I'm 49, I've had time for quite a few of these so far), and I might add that I have only seen this happen to people deeply involved in what amounts to the paranormal or some fringe of it, then I have no reason to assume that Casteneda, or Jacobs for that matter, because they were obviously a mess at point-C, necessarily were at point-A.

I think if they had been, they never would have accomplished (in terms of following) what they did. I think it was a devolution of personality that is one of the very serious dangers of certain energy work and in the end, they "served as a warning to others." My being willing to observe the mess they ended up doesn't make me think they never knew much and were just miserable frauds all along or something. At least in the case of the people I've known with the same profile, that just wasn't so.

RC




posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 11:02 AM
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a reply to: RedCairo

Wow. Thanks. Just so you know, I am at work and after reading your posts, I have been staring blankly at my computer monitor for an hour at least because my head won't stop resonating.



posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 11:09 PM
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originally posted by: RedCairo
(continued)

...

We don't know what it is or what it means yet. We don't need to know. The first thing is basically looking for patterns in the noise. There are concomitants to these experiences, and things happening before and after them, which you can also find patterns in. When you have a giant field of noise and you find repeating patterns, that's where your data is.

So then you can focus in on the things that loosely model the repeating patterns, leaving 50+% of the rest of it to be white noise until it isn't, and finally 'we have something to study' -- because while the details might be distinct to the individual, suddenly we are at least probably talking about something similar enough to be approximately the same thing.

At that point we aren't obsessing on whether someone is crazy. vs. lying, we're obsessing on "let's go ask those 400 people who reported 'blue gel' to tell us everything they can recall about it." And doing that might lead us to a vastly greater understanding about that element and what is immediately around it -- in terms of environment and experience.

And that might lead to more solid 'patterns' found in the concomitants for example.

We would skip the "oooh it's an alien is he lying?" and just move on to "Ok, enough people talk about blue gel -ish that there's likely something to this, let's see how the human-experience of it varies, and see what more we can learn in the process."

Of course that might be useful and productive for greater understanding so as a public-domain layman-research strategy it's unlikely to be employed.

So: patterns in the noise. Synchronicity of human experience suggests a pattern, and the more people, the more coincidence, the moreso.

RC

PS too many words. I'm sleepy that always makes it worse.


I think this is a good approach. The problem is getting to the "experiencer" before their perception of the experience is tainted by other people's claims.

I recall reading Christopher O'Brien's Mysterious Valley and it resonated with me. His presentation of experiences was very disjointed and I remember thinking, "Yes, that's the way it is."



posted on Jan, 30 2015 @ 12:27 AM
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originally posted by: Tangerine
I think this is a good approach. The problem is getting to the "experiencer" before their perception of the experience is tainted by other people's claims.

Well, I think this is less an issue for the pattern-in-the-noise focus, because the majority of 'skew' in memory recall is not wholesale experience -- this idea of false memories I think is in part a strategic deception tactic pushed into public assumption, to make it very easy to invalidate anything.

Entirely or even majority utterly-false memories, vs. simply somewhat-distorted-in-detail memories, are NOT common at all in my experience, with or without hypnosis.

This is what I meant about not getting hung up on the details. Details are going to vary by the person and details are where most of the "fluctuation and distortion of recall" are likely to happen. However the overall *pattern* of events and things is likely to still be recognizable. Like the bird/sun/car/buffalo example I gave previously.

First you find the pattern. (In that example: red/bright object moving horizontally near the ground.) Then when you see the pattern, you start looking more at the specifics. (How many reports have reddish in them, what is the overall variance in things like size, speed, location where this was witnessed, who or what was nearby, the experience the person had just before/after that, etc.)

Then, whether you have highly-personalized elements or group-think-conformance, it's all just another mass-data point, and this is the important thing: in this model we're not looking to trust ANY individual report so much as we're looking for a 'meta-analysis overview' that gives us rough ideas.

We could focus on choosing a very limited subset of our meta-group of info, once we had it, individual accounts that seemed (for whatever reason) possibly more trustworthy than others -- that is 'focusing in' later. Perhaps the sense of more-trustworthy, IF those also had sync with others in that group, might seem like a good subset of data to take more seriously.

But in order to get a big compilation of such things and be able to find those accounts, those people, there needs to be what amounts to an acceptance of data as just being data -- not having to prove anything, not having to fit in any paradigm, just "isn't human experience interesting?"

As long as we get our data from UFO discussions they are likely to have a UFO theme. That doesn't mean that the experience is invalid or the pattern is wrong. It means that it looks more like a car than a buffalo to us, you see? And over in the channeled-light-beings fringe field, it looks like a fiery angel flying by. Fine, because when we gather things by pattern, and look at source and other related info, we can actually SEE a lot better how these distortions are affecting the data.

Of course, it might lead to realizing that sometimes it's not a matter of 1 objectively real thing distorted but rather, one set of energy that maybe has no objective reality if it did not protrude 100% into the frequency bandwidth we call home, only subjective experience, which makes all of the experiences "valid for the individual."

Individual reports are individual and subject to variance for many different reasons. There's always going to be some and it's verging on freak-occurrence to actually find someone who not only has such experiences and consciously remembers them and can articulate them but ON TOP OF THAT has no real exposure to the field, and to having at least talked with someone about it before you/me/internet/world finally heard it, and so on.

Speaking of one of the few examples of that, I published my case study on the internet in early 1996 (I'm putting it on amazon kindle soon as I finish the formatting). I can't even tell you the number of people who have contacted me over the years about it. They have had nearly EVERY imaginable paradigm as a background. Literally from preachers to scientologists, from occultists to ordinary housewives to psychiatrists, and aside from the first and last categories, nearly everybody raved on about *finding so many points of commonality with some of my experiences.* Not the same experiences. Not even the same with some detail variance. Just "points of commonality" that blew them away because they were private experiences, and it seemed like it must mean something that such distinctive, offbeat elements in their private life, I had recorded about mine.

Some of these people went to psychologists who labeled and drugged them and here I was going, "Ooh weird. Damn it, that was upsetting. Ok, moving on." They were shocked and angry that it had ruined their life while for me "It's just another day," as I say.

Human experience is a lot more than "abduction" and IMO probably most things we put in the UFOlogy category don't belong there at all. Also putting it in that genre makes you sound insane which is a good reason for not actually using that paradigm LOL.

I was friends with the late Rhea White (she worked with Rhine and other parapsych but got a lot more into the personalized/jungian element on her own) and she called my study "An Exceptional Human Experience Autobiography," which she encouraged people to write. The point of that is to record as best you can a period of life that really interested/changed you as honestly as you can without regard for any assumptions about what it means or what it was -- simply as you experienced it.

It was she who pointed out to me all the amazing pattern syncs of experiences that happen along the same time, or before/after, each other. So for example if you had experience X and Y, and you were looking at a database of such accounts, you might be astonished to discover that a whole lot of people having experience Y had X first and then Z, and so if by chance you start experiencing Z, maybe don't freak out because apparently that's not too unusual. And by the way there's no point in invalidating your sanity for having had these experiences because look at how many other people have had similar stuff.

I had noticed this before in that by accident, I have repeatedly found that my spontaneous experiences mirror cabala stuff -- in the specific sequences of development, no less. Most I didn't know or understand until much later. I am still finding that.

This probably gets into what Jung might have called "individuation" -- I think it is possible that human psychospiritual development has a fairly 'similar pattern of growth' to other forms of human development, due to the things our species has in common together. And that we often interpret similar symbols or patterns, due to the similarities in us.

And maybe for some or even all people this growth happens somewhat naturally, but the timing varies. E.g. experiences I had, some people study for years in occult to try and get to, but they seemed to just fall on me, and I had no idea WTH was going on. To me they were just inexplicable and traumatic, in many cases.

(continued)

edit on 30-1-2015 by RedCairo because: I think better than I type.



posted on Jan, 30 2015 @ 12:28 AM
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(continued)

On a lighter note:

One day on the phone back in oh, I think maybe '98 or so, I told her about this thing I'd had for so many years of synchronicity where the numbers 11/11, 11:11, 11 and 11, just kept cropping up. For a long time I thought, "Well I'm just noticing it for no apparent reason I guess or because eventually I just started thinking it mattered," but eventually over time it seemed clear that it was one of the "synchronicity" elements (because it increased rampantly when I was in high-sync cycles). This was a casual mention in passing and she said it was interesting and she wondered how common this was. So out of curiosity, after we talked (as my phone was my dial-up then) I did a web search, and was AGOG to discover it was ridiculously common and in fact there were whole new age websites waxing on about it (which promptly made me never want to tell anybody about it ever again, to spare my reputation). But I started that in like '93 or so, and it went on for years before I just on the fly happened to discover it wasn't novel. It's so trivial; really who cares!; but it's an example of "offbeat experience" that you can't even put a probability % on, and yet that enough totally unrelated people have to make clear there is some archetype (perhaps) involved in the energy-patterns-of-our-people.


I recall reading Christopher O'Brien's Mysterious Valley and it resonated with me. His presentation of experiences was very disjointed and I remember thinking, "Yes, that's the way it is."

One of the "key criteria" me and some friends have often used for evaluating the reports of other people's anomalous experience is, "Does it make sense? Does it seem odd but reasonable?" If it does, question it, LOL. Because the real thing is often bizarre, contradictory, sometimes seems like it's missing pieces, or has pieces unrelated in the middle, and often makes you sound like a lunatic or a moron trying to describe it.

RC



posted on Jan, 30 2015 @ 07:51 AM
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originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: RedCairo

Wow. Thanks. Just so you know, I am at work and after reading your posts, I have been staring blankly at my computer monitor for an hour at least because my head won't stop resonating.


come on Bro don't be this guy




funbox



posted on Jan, 30 2015 @ 08:22 AM
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a reply to: funbox
There is not a day that goes by where I am not fully aware of the cracks between the worlds. I can just walk outside and my whole world collapses. This is why I need to keep running from it. When I experience highly synchronous events, I run from it and deny it. It has plagued me most of my life.



posted on Jan, 30 2015 @ 06:03 PM
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a reply to: ZetaRediculian

I cant resist !


"so that must have quite a impact on your Brother, did this put a strain on the relationship at all ? I can imagine the synergy is strong within you two
"

*heavy breathing*

he's not looking now is he ?


*wrestles the keyboard back from the impious microfunbox , who , promptly vanishes with a giggle*

funbox



posted on Jan, 30 2015 @ 06:15 PM
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originally posted by: funbox
a reply to: ZetaRediculian

I cant resist !


"so that must have quite a impact on your Brother, did this put a strain on the relationship at all ? I can imagine the synergy is strong within you two
"

*heavy breathing*

he's not looking now is he ?


*wrestles the keyboard back from the impious microfunbox , who , promptly vanishes with a giggle*

funbox



I'm beginning to wonder whether reading your posts isn't causing some sort of synaptic damage that will unexpectedly manifest at some future date. You know, like watching Videodrome.
edit on 30-1-2015 by draknoir2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 30 2015 @ 06:20 PM
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a reply to: draknoir2

Zeta , if its your turn on the keyboard , put it down and poke him in the eye
, obviously not on your half of the head
but don't pull no punches.. you know its been building in you for years .


funbox



posted on Jan, 30 2015 @ 06:30 PM
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a reply to: funbox

There is nothing wrong with homosexuality.
edit on 30-1-2015 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 30 2015 @ 06:35 PM
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a reply to: ZetaRediculian

what ? between Siamese twins ?
I would have thought it a tad incestuous , but nothing that's been done before ..

or are you insinuating im homosexual ?
I wish , women can be a pain in the ass , pardon the pun


intotheclosetwithyoubox



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 04:10 AM
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originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
When I experience highly synchronous events, I run from it and deny it. It has plagued me most of my life.

I associate awareness of synchronicity with lucid dreaming, to some degree. In LD's (and sometimes similar visions, if I'm not actually asleep technically) I've often been totally aware of 'this' life and reality, but also aware that it's just one of many going on, and I often have spent time comparing things between whatever world I'm in then and the world I have now, out of curiosity. One time during my weird phase 20 years ago, I got lucid in THIS dream (reality) and it nearly broke my brain. Forget enlightenment, I don't ever want to do that again. Anyway, there is something about the state of mind between high-sync and LD that feels related/similar to me, I just don't have a word for whatever it is.

I was lucid in dreams nightly pretty much my whole life until 18, and I could drop myself into an LD intentionally through much of that even when young. Like OBEs which were also chronic and common for me, I actually thought this was normal for everybody. Not until I was 18 did I realize they weren't at all, and that (plus my I'm-too-smart-for-weird stupidity I got then, took me a long time to work through that ego idiocy) drastically and suddenly diminished the quantity and often degree of both. They are both pretty rare for me now. Then again I'm going on 20 years of chronic sleep deprivation and stress and (probably related) health issues so there's probably more going on than metaphysics, you might say. Still I think our 'awareness' is a 'continuum' and 'awareness of synchronicity' is over toward the part that is aware of dreaming, too.

RC



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 04:44 PM
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a reply to: RedCairo



I associate awareness of synchronicity with lucid dreaming


That is an interesting connection. Have you ever had sleep paralysis?



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 07:37 PM
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originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
That is an interesting connection. Have you ever had sleep paralysis?

No, I haven't. I've heard of it, people sometimes say they have run into legendary metaphysical Beings or even so-called 'aliens' in that state (I reserve judgement on how much of one of those constitutes the other).

Then there's the critics who seem to think that anything experienced in that state is a hallucination, I'm not clear on why.

I theorize that this happens at the liminal state that OBEs often do -- that place where the body is technically asleep but the mind is still technically awake -- however, much like the consideration of drugs and electrodes, I think it's entirely possible that such a state simply reflects a distinct combination brainwave state that attunes people's awareness to a certain frequency-set that can perceive things (or in a way) that we normally can't. That does not make them any less valid. That me and snakes see "a tree" or "a rabbit" in completely different way does not make either of us wrong. It's merely the biological filter.

One of my theories 20 years ago on WTH might have been happening to me was that my long term of effort in self hypnosis combined with a couple years of an active-meditation group (Jungian/Steinbrecher imaginal sort, not Zazen/OM/no-mind), which seemed to have amp'd up my ability to be holding a lot of theta and delta at the same time as a decent amount of alpha and even beta, that maybe this had accidentally caused me to become 'aware' of a lot of junk that normally we would only be aware of during 'deep sleep' cycles, except I was often walking around wide awake during it. It remains one of several theories but it could only explain some small percentage of stuff (little to none of which falls under 'ufology').

Best,
RC



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 09:27 PM
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a reply to: RedCairo

No, I haven't. I've heard of it, people sometimes say they have run into legendary metaphysical Beings or even so-called 'aliens' in that state (I reserve judgement on how much of one of those constitutes the other).

Then there's the critics who seem to think that anything experienced in that state is a hallucination, I'm not clear on why.

I am hesitating to share a lot of my personal experiences since every time I do now, there seems to be some weird impulse for people to jump all over me as if I am not allowed to have them.

I have had bouts of sleep paralysis pretty consistently for around 30 years. last one was about 3 years ago. I never really have seen alien beings but I do see people that are in context or that are supposed to be there. They always start with a loud buzzing sound and then realization that I am paralyzed. There is definitely a blend between being aware while you are sleeping and dreaming but its more like your body is frozen and you are trapped. Then what I experience is a lot of confusion between what is dream imagery and what is real. But it IS all dream imagery. So in that sense, everything is a hallucination. Its like you get the full sensory experience. So I might hear voices in the next room or someone might be talking to me. My first reaction is to try to get out of it or get "unstuck" and then I feel like I do and can walk around and then only to realize I am still frozen.

The "official" explanation for alien abduction experience seems to be sleep paralysis along with some false memory and I do see how that could happen if someone is not aware that they might be having SP. That initial loud electrifying buzzing that feels like its vibrates my whole body does seem like it could be from some alien tech paralyzing me and a good chunk of abduction stories do seem to start that way. But then I have been coming across more people like yourself who have a wide array of experiences that seem very unlike the SP scenario. And then you had some waking experiences?

And I am not kidding about my experiences of reality. Its like I trained myself to be aware of this other thing? Mystical state? The Unspoken Thing

Do you have migraines?



edit on 1-2-2015 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-2-2015 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 10:04 PM
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Actually the buzzing/shaking is very common to OBE experiences. I don't have any problem with considering that a perceptual 'effect' of a certain brainwave combination and what one might call an "area of shift" from perception being 'body-centered' to 'not-body-centered.' Just because one doesn't "continue" the process and actually fully-shift the perceptual-sense-of-where-you-are (go OB) doesn't mean that the shift-zone perceptual experience can't happen anyway, and a whole list of "elements of awareness" (particularly reality-overlaps, as I suspect the frequency-layers that divide these are very thin) are likely to occur and in my experience we are present in endless others.

I don't have any argument with considering everything that isn't in 'our' 'objective' reality to be dream-experience but it's important for context that I consider this-reality to be dream experience too. It's simply that whatever dream 'frequency layer' you happen to be perceptually-standing-in, the locals call it reality, and generally think nothing else is real. Usually because they have not got the ability to be lucidly-aware anywhere but in the tightly locked-down bandwidth that is their local reality. That's not bad or good, but I consider it a limitation; it is not that other people are crazy so much as that the oblivious ones are a little incompetent with it.

I think what we perceive whether awake or asleep is a result of energetic input, limited and focused and translated by our nervous system's biological filters, further limited and filtered by our brain's ability to translate right-brain experience to left-brain (sic) verbal understanding, and then creatively communicated (however well or badly that happens) by an individual. There are many areas for this to vary but the important point there is the energetic input: if it had not occurred, there would be no reason for all that followed.

So maybe there are "amorpheous geometries" of energetic input that some people translate to reality overlaps, including some of what is considered part of sleep paralysis (I consider the paralysis to be a predictable 'symptom' of what the brain is doing -- not an explanation for it!), but I would argue that might be the case for everything in existence -- that we simply translate them 'similarly' in our 'reality' due to the similarity of our biology. If one person is perceiving something and others aren't, yes it's possible they are 'dreaming' but it's possible they are dreaming because their brainwave combination + attention-focus just happens to be moving into the frequencies where their 'dream' is taking place.

I have had 'reality overlaps' as I call them several times but I was not remotely asleep, I was however "alpha state" at the start of a meditation in many (not all, in some I was just going about my day). I was simply getting "bleedthrough" as I call it from another-layer.

In one, for example, I was a man and I was getting on a bus. It seemed pretty much like our world (maybe it was, who knows). I got on, and I put in change, and I walked toward the back and sat down. I heard with ABSOLUTE CLARITY everything -- the bus stopping for me, the air brakes, the change, the conversation of the various people around me. My visuals were barely-there, fuzzy. At the time, this might make you laugh, but it only pissed me off because I wanted to meditate and I couldn't because it was totally distracting. Worse, it was boring! I was thinking, "OMG, I'm a proletarian in yet ANOTHER life!" heh. I got up and walked around, tried to shake it off, sat back down to meditate -- it wouldn't go away. I did dishes... it was still there. If I let myself even think about it, it was 'available to my attention,' though it wasn't strong enough to 'impinge upon' this-reality if I was paying attention to this-reality. Eventually I just had to give up on meditation for the entire day, which was really irritating because I was trying to keep a certain schedule with a series of planned things with it.

My throat chakra has always been fairly active I think. During some cycles when I've been carefully attentive to "awareness," I've found a whole series of anomalies that kind of blew me away. Mainly that my body 'reacts' to a ton of noise that I am not consciously aware of . I have even often been able to "catch my mind" in the process of its functioning, as if getting a glimpse behind the scenes.

Once for example, I was sitting in a chair with a book, and my entire body basically leaped in "hugely startled" -- and my brain said, "NOT THIS REALITY" and my brain instantly closed down the attention and memory and I went on reading my book. But just then I "caught" what had occurred, and was close enough to 'replay' the previous second, and understand all of that. The sound was, the back roll-door of a big rig truck had just been pulled down and slammed, and it was as if it were literally three feet from me, and it was so LOUD it was incredible. It scared the crap out of me! My body responded. But my brain seems to have a really robust "reality filter" so that even when my body might be spanning/including frequency layers that have energy that can translate to events, sounds, people, whatever, my brain very kindly does me the favor of filtering out everything it doesn't consider pertinent to "this" reality.

Which is probably the only reason I am not a raving lunatic. (Well I suppose nobody on the internet knows whether I am a lunatic. But my writing should make clear that I am probably not raving, at least.)

No, I don't have headaches. Actually, like ever. I get headaches so seldom -- like once every couple or few years -- that when I do get one, I think something horrible is wrong. The only time I've had headaches is during the rare cycles when I was drinking a lot of caffeine and then would suddenly stop drinking it -- because I didn't want to be addicted to anything -- I would get headaches for a day or two when I stopped, but it would pass.

RC



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 11:09 PM
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a reply to: RedCairo


It's simply that whatever dream 'frequency layer' you happen to be perceptually-standing-in, the locals call it reality, and generally think nothing else is real.


To me, everything is kind of a hallucination. There is the stable state where the distortions are normal and you just adapt to that state. When everything is as expected, that's interpreted as reality. You can alter that state and that becomes the unreality, dreams, hallucinations or just distortions in perceptions. I found that when you are constantly in an altered state, you just adapt and that becomes normal reality.

I have migraines sometimes but they are mild and I don't get much of a headache. The weird stuff is the aura en.wikipedia.org...(symptom)

Interesting was the large number of people that had them from the project core survey www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 06:15 AM
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I often find myself repeating myself when it comes to this topic in particular but that is OK.

After heavily reading any material I could find from Bud Hopkins to Jacobs to Mack to countless other researchers I came to one conclusion.

These beings are not evil per say as we understand evil is a human trait but that these beings are simply indifferent to us. Just as we are with animals. Do we slaughter chickens because we are evil ? Do we experiment on rats seeking cures and medical breakthrough 's ? Of course not. From an Alien perspective they see us as thier lessers and who can blame them if the shoe is on the other foot and if they were at our mercy we would dissect them and want to know what makes them tick. And apparently we allready have according to reputable sources.

It appears they operate on a metaphysical level almost supernatural to us but really to them it is superscience. Given they are light years ahead of us we cant grasp the magnificence of their tech. Missing time and high strangeness for example.

They do seem to return us after being taken well that we know of but not always. Missing planes , people mysteriously vanish in thin air by the thousands and no trace after no remains nada. This is where ufology takes a dark turn. There seems to be a sort of brain washing and indoctrination of abductees to accept these beings and have some bond with them. Apparently screened memories and memory blocks are planted to hide layers of memories of a negative terrifying experience. And these are the people who remember. Thery is most abductees have no idea they have been abducted. This could range in the billions for all we know.


So you see where and why the cover up comes in. Knowing our governments are powerless to stop it. Even our governments could be under mind control and we would never know. If you look at the nefarious actions of the ptb that could be why. I know this sounds like ramblings if a mad man and I wish it was the case but everything points to this.

A few president's hinted around and warned us. But it went over our heads. The Military industrial complex the black budget is not spending trillions on mundayne stuff folks. Clandestine agencies that do not exist that do exist without congressional oversight working in tandem with ET's. The abduction phenomenon is far too consistent to be night terrors and old hag syndrome. You cant argue with the numbers.


Blue Shift see alien implantation and Roger Lier. Metallic isotopes only found in meteorites dont just show up in human bodies. Not to mention giving off a frequency. There is ton as of physphysical evidence-based data accumulated over the decades. Ive seen people sent to death row with less evidence. It's not fringe science it is an inconvenient truth.
edit on 2-2-2015 by DarthFazer because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 06:24 AM
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originally posted by: DarthFazer
I often find myself repeating myself when it comes to this topic in particular but that is OK.

After heavily reading any material I could find from Bud Hopkins to Jacobs to Mack to countless other researchers I came to one conclusion.

These beings are not evil per say as we understand evil is a human trait but that these beings are simply indifferent to us. Just as we are with animals. Do we slaughter chickens because we are evil ? Do we experiment on rats seeking cures and medical breakthrough 's ? Of course not. From an Alien perspective they see us as thier lessers and who can blame them if the shoe is on the other foot and if they were at our mercy we would dissect them and want to know what makes them tick. And apparently we allready have according to reputable sources.

It appears they operate on a metaphysical level almost supernatural to us but really to them it is superscience. Given they are light years ahead of us we cant grasp the magnificence of their tech. Missing time and high strangeness for example.

They do seem to return us after being taken well that we know of but not always. Missing planes , people mysteriously vanish in thin air by the thousands and no trace after no remains nada. This is where ufology takes a dark turn. There seems to be a sort of brain washing and indoctrination of abductees to accept these beings and have some bond with them. Apparently screened memories and memory blocks are planted to hide layers of memories of a negative terrifying experience. And these are the people who remember. Thery is most abductees have no idea they have been abducted. This could range in the billions for all we know.


So you see where and why the cover up comes in. Knowing our governments are powerless to stop it. Even our governments could be under mind control and we would never know. If you look at the nefarious actions of the ptb that could be why. I know this sounds like ramblings if a mad man and I wish it was the case but everything points to this.

A few president's hinted around and warned us. But it went over our heads. The Military industrial complex the black budget is not spending trillions on mundayne stuff folks. Clandestine agencies that do not exist that do exist without congressional oversight working in tandem with ET's. The abduction phenomenon is far too consistent to be night terrors and old hag syndrome. You cant argue with the numbers.


Blue Shift see alien implantation and Roger Lier. Metallic isotopes only found in meteorites dont just show up in human bodies. Not to mention giving off a frequency. There is ton as of physphysical evidence-based data accumulated over the decades. Ive seen people sent to death row with less evidence. It's not fringe science it is an inconvenient truth.


Thanks for that. Yes, of course I agree with what you are saying, I especially like the sentence "metallic isotopes only found in meteorites don't just show up in human bodies".

Have you read this, one of the best summaries/overviews of the alien interaction with Earth:

ALL YOU EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT THE ALIEN INTERACTION WITH EARTH BUT WERE AFRAID TO ASK



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