It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Debunking Abduction Debunkers

page: 23
28
<< 20  21  22    24  25  26 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 16 2015 @ 03:26 AM
link   
a reply to: Scdfa
Impressive, very detailed descriptions proving conclusively that you saw them in person at your secret job. Obviously the government was suppressing this information since you saw it.

As for the other 7 questions?




posted on Jan, 16 2015 @ 03:38 AM
link   

originally posted by: PlanetXisHERE
- hypnosis is NOT always a key factor in abduction events, some people remember events without the aid of hypnosis

- memory degradation is not always a factor, Dr Jacobs has examined some abduction events that took place only hours before

- abductees are physically missing from their environments during abductions, police can be called, neighbors/friends enlisted in searches, etc

- after reported abduction events, people have marks, cuts, scars on their bodies, the origin of which are a mystery to them – he told the story of one of his patients, one he had seen the day before, who was fine, but talked to him the next day and had brand new scars on both her hands

- the abduction phenomenon is global, it is not only just happening in the US, Dr Jacobs and his colleagues have investigated reports from every continent

- people are sometimes abducted in groups and can confirm one another’s abductions

- bystanders see others abducted and are not abducted themselves

- people return from abductions with clothes on backwards or inside out, without clothes, without jewelry, wearing someone else’s clothes

- abductees, unknown to each other, describe the same “mistakes” when they are returned such as – driving on the wrong side of the road, miles away from where the incident began, returned to locked houses without keys

- abductions seem to be intergenerational

- according to a 1991 poll by the Roper organization, 2% or more of the people in the US may have had abduction-like experiences – you can do the math for the total number

- MMPI data and psychiatric interviews indicate abductees are not, on the whole, mentally unstable, they mirror the population, and most want strict confidentiality and are not looking for fame, money, notoriety etc – and they often put their careers at risk by speaking about it at all

- people describe events that make their stories sound fallacious, if they were making it up they would not do that

Abductees from around the world from different age groups and different social strata describe the same events in the precise detail:
Same procedures
Same aliens
Same surroundings – halls, rooms, walls, ceilings, tables, doorways etc
Same demeanor of the abductors
Same sounds of lack thereof
Same neural engagement and manipulation

Dr. Jacobs says we are left with one of two alternatives:

1. If the abductions are not happening, then this is the most interesting psychological phenomenon ever encountered – yet no one in psychological academia is willing to study it.

2. Abductions are happening, and the governments of the world cannot stop them, thus would like to cover up the whole phenomenon.






Okay, we're kind of drifting off topic. This is natural is most threads that go over a page or two, but let's try to get back on course.

I would really like to discuss the other points in the OP that I have quoted above, except hypnosis. That has been done to death, and Dr. Jacobs has stated that not all recollections were done using hypnosis.

Can anyone find any holes in the rest of the points? Again, NOT using any argument involving hypnosis?

For me, one of the things that sealed it were the scars, scars that people have no memory of getting. One person even showed Dr. Jacobs scars on both hands that were not there the day before. Is there any current human technology that could heal a wound in less than 24hrs?

I'm also curious about what people think about Dr. Jacobs ultimate conclusions after conducting this research for decades. Troubling?

I'm also interested in hearing from people who have had abduction experiences, feel free to share, or if Dr. Jacobs has found, wish to keep your identity private, you can confide in me through the ATS private messaging, and I can relay your story, or keep it private if you wish.





edit on 16-1-2015 by PlanetXisHERE because: addition



posted on Jan, 16 2015 @ 05:25 AM
link   
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE
Doesnt require technology, but rather science. Normally my blisters from hiking take a week or so to disappear, but I applied vitamin E to one immediately, and it disappeared in a day.

Electromagnetic pulses are also used to heal both physical and psychological wounds. You should read up on electromagnetism because it is the glue of the universe. It has profound effects on the human mind, including disruption/alteration of the senses.



posted on Jan, 16 2015 @ 09:09 AM
link   
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

Can anyone find any holes in the rest of the points? Again, NOT using any argument involving hypnosis?

Sure.
1. You don't need to be under hypnosis to lead someone into a false memory.
2. Some people are more suggestible than others.
3. He is bull#ting us. We don't get to see his work. I don't take his word on any of it. Why on earth would you trust this guy after listening to the Emma Woods audio tapes and watching the Carol Rainey Videos and reading the Carol Rainy articles and reading the all the other information that destroys his credibility?

Can we see his work? Any of it? For instance where are the results for the "samples" he sent out?



For me, one of the things that sealed it were the scars, scars that people have no memory of getting. One person even showed Dr. Jacobs scars on both hands that were not there the day before. Is there any current human technology that could heal a wound in less than 24hrs

Is there high resolution images of the "scars"? So this information came from someone who told him something and then it was retold by Jacobs. We have to take his word for it I guess. There are loads of skin conditions that could be interpreted as scars that don't have an external source. Is he also a self taught dermatologist?


edit on 16-1-2015 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2015 @ 09:19 AM
link   

originally posted by: PlanetXisHERE

For me, one of the things that sealed it were the scars, scars that people have no memory of getting. One person even showed Dr. Jacobs scars on both hands that were not there the day before. Is there any current human technology that could heal a wound in less than 24hrs?



begthequestion.info...



posted on Jan, 16 2015 @ 09:52 AM
link   
a reply to: draknoir2

In New Jersey we just say "he's full of #".

I know I shouldn't have done it but I started watching the video of his presentation. Holy cow is that guy full of bull turds. Yeah I am biased. His evidence consists entirely of bullet points on a power point presentation! What gets me is that I am asked to back up what I am saying, you know, with actual documentation. But oh no, Professor Panties gets to spout off whatever he wants and if I question it or flat out don't trust it, I must be head of the denialist elite.

don't get me started.
edit on 16-1-2015 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2015 @ 03:10 AM
link   
 


off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 17 2015 @ 09:11 AM
link   

originally posted by: Ridhya
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE
Doesnt require technology, but rather science. Normally my blisters from hiking take a week or so to disappear, but I applied vitamin E to one immediately, and it disappeared in a day.

Electromagnetic pulses are also used to heal both physical and psychological wounds. You should read up on electromagnetism because it is the glue of the universe. It has profound effects on the human mind, including disruption/alteration of the senses.


Sure, I believe blisters could heal in 24hrs, it is known that under the right conditions any damage to the epidermis layer of the skin, the outer first layer, can heal that quickly.

However, from what Dr. Jacobs described, the patient had scars that came from sizeable cuts, and nowhere on earth can damage to the dermis layer be healed in 24hrs or less, if you are going to argue that please provide backup and not theories.

Yes, electromagnetism is fascinating, thanks for bringing that up. However, kind of beyond the scope of this thread beyond its theoretical applications in wound healing (its use isn't widespread in hospitals, right?).

You should start a thread on electromagnetism, I'm sure many would like to participate and you could share your knowledge on the subject.



posted on Jan, 17 2015 @ 10:14 AM
link   
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

I know a guy who says he knows an army guy who says he got his leg blown off by an IED in Afghanistan, only to have it grow back a week later.

I challenge all you paid debunkers to explain just how that is possible without Alien technology!



posted on Jan, 17 2015 @ 10:40 AM
link   
a reply to: draknoir2

I usually don't believe these kinds of stories unless its included in a Power Point presentation.



posted on Jan, 17 2015 @ 12:25 PM
link   
Im still waiting for my other answers


(post by Scdfa removed for a manners violation)

posted on Jan, 17 2015 @ 01:13 PM
link   

originally posted by: Ridhya
Im still waiting for my other answers


No you're not, or you would have asked a serious question



posted on Jan, 17 2015 @ 02:00 PM
link   

originally posted by: draknoir2
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

I know a guy who says he knows an army guy who says he got his leg blown off by an IED in Afghanistan, only to have it grow back a week later.

I challenge all you paid debunkers to explain just how that is possible without Alien technology!



I challenge you to prove how it's possible with alien technology!



posted on Jan, 17 2015 @ 10:32 PM
link   
a reply to: Scdfa

I asked 8 serious questions, just in humourous ways


if you dont know the answers just say so, but dont tell me you're sorry for stopping in the middle with no intention of continuing
edit on 17-1-2015 by Ridhya because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2015 @ 11:27 PM
link   
So, 23 pages.

Abduction debunkers still not debunked?

Debunking abductions is a lot easier. Should have gone for that, eh?



posted on Jan, 18 2015 @ 10:00 AM
link   
a reply to: Ridhya
It is disappointing that any member who so vociferously asserts aliens as fact in this thread appears unable to offer anything of substance to support the claims.
As Astyanax indicates, debunkers have clearly not been debunked here yet. All we really seem to have learned is that some believers prefer to sidetrack showing faux offence in response to how questions are asked rather than actually sharing their 'evidence' with ATS.
The "I know aliens exist" statement is not at all dissimilar to "I know God exists" in my opinion, certainly when one considers the unyielding faith in 'Prophet' Jacob.
The indignant pomposity is of equal amusement value though. Lol.



posted on Jan, 19 2015 @ 06:16 PM
link   
Here is info on the Roper Organization Poll that indicated 2% of the population had had abductee experiences:


Based in New York City, The Roper Organization spends more time deciding from whom they will solicit opinions than they do asking the questions on their nation wide Limobus(TM) survey. Their demographics go far beyond the random selections based on age and gender. Roper's sample populations contain the precise percentages of each ethnic group, political affiliation and education level as is reflected in the most recent census data. From a relatively small sample, The Roper Organization can determine the preferences of hundreds of millions of American individuals. Also, their data base can often reveal subtle psychological factors that not only tell a marketer not if his product has appeal, but why.


Okay, so they are expert pollsters.


The Limobus survey can contain hundreds of questions from a variety of companies. Subjects in their special populations are asked about their laundry, their musical tastes, their food preferences-- all mixed together with no clue as to the purpose or intent of the inquiries.


Okay, so the intent of most polls is masked, eliminating self-selection bias, eliciting more truthful responses, one of the only objections some on here have been able to come up with about this poll.


Beginning in 1992, Robert Bigelow, and an anonymous financial partner, formed The Bigelow Holding Company and inserted their own special questions in three separate Limobus surveys to learn both the number and character of alien abductees in America.



Since most successful abductions involve amnesia, Bigelow realized that he couldn't just ask subjects if they had been abducted by aliens. Also, since the questions would be asked in person, by an examiner, he doubted that anyone would want to admit to such an inquiry for fear of being labeled "crazy." But Bigelow knew that abductees, even before their memories were released, had certain events that they remembered and were likely to admit. These events were not shared by non-abductees.



Pre-testing the indicators had assured Bigelow and his team that they could discriminate between true victims of alien abduction and non-abductees with over-active imaginations. Positive responses to specific questions would definitely indicate an abduction had occurred. The test also had built-in questions to detect fraud. For example, a positive response to "Do you remember seeing or hearing the word TRONDANT (a word Bigelow had made up) and knowing it has a special significance to you?" would automatically eliminate the subject from consideration, regardless of other indicators.



Roper's representative American sample of about 6000 adults (with a sampling error of 1.4 percent!) showed that one out of every 50 people met the profile of an abductee. This figure suggests that about 33,000,000 individuals had been abducted in America. A closer look at these specific profiles showed that these people were not "average" at all.


Link



posted on Jan, 19 2015 @ 06:27 PM
link   

originally posted by: jritzmann

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: jritzmann

You guys took a kicking for those paratopia episodes and yet they turned the tide.



And I'd do it again...wait, I did, on Paranormal Waypoint (KGRARadio.com). Over 3 programs I laid out the Dr. Scott Lilienfeld information, the Carol Rainey story, and finally the Emma Woods recordings. If anyone needs any more than that to show that abduction research is in the toilet, I don't know what to tell them.

The real story here is that yes, something is indeed happening in "alien" experiences, something truly anomalous. But, your UFOlogical researchers have twisted the accounts, and edited them for mass appeal, capital gains and ego gratification. I'd venture to say any of you not having the experience don't know what I'm talking about (and that's not your fault either) - and those who are, know *instantly* what I mean.

Jacobs, Hopkins, etc - all painted a highly inaccurate picture of this due to their ridiculous use of a hypnotic tool that is utterly useless for recovering accurate memory. What is it good for? Hardening false memories. In other words, Jacobs and his ilk co-created the "typical abduction scenario". There is no "typical" scenario.

From people who recall directly, there are similar aspects. What you hear out of hypnosis recall is cultural contamination, along with a host of other contributing factors.

You want a conspiracy? There it is. The abduction "researchers" sold you on their own preconceived notions and poisoned the study from the get-go. The conspiracy is they know the real experience is FAR more strange and self negating - and they bury it because they think it's too bizarre, or too much to be believed.

The outlier data is disposed of and you never heard it. They didn't want you too. They want to sell you alien doctors, or enlightened beings, or evil hybrids.

That's the disservice of it all, and it's to the detriment of the study.

I believe people are recognizing the more complex picture, and they're ready for it. They are turning away from the Hopkins, Jacobs, Lamb and Smith's and getting serious.


www.abovetopsecret.com...


As I write this, two whistle blowers are being stalked and harassed over the internet by zealous fans of David Jacobs and Budd Hopkins. They are both women, so naturally they are called hysterical and crazy by sexist pigs who would rather not see their heroes’ reputations tarnished by some anonymous bitch and a vengeful ex wife.

I guess we just need to forget all of the clear, well-presented and damning evidence that the anonymous woman was ever mentally abused and used for a book project and as a pawn in a delusional fantasy by David Jacobs and the fact that his entire –ENTIRE–defense is that she’s crazy because she used to believe the evil alien-hybrid fiction he was prepping her with under hypnosis and now she doesn’t? Overlook all that, do we? And continue to heap abuse after abuse on this woman who has kept her rational calm for years against the raving lunatics who would sooner see her die than help her?

Because why? Because they read his books and liked them? Saw him speak and thought he was a charming professor? You choose liking books about aliens over helping a fellow human being bring the author to some kind of justice? She can’t afford to seek justice through a court. How about excising Jacobs from the “community”? That would do. Never give him another speaking engagement or media platform to speak. That would do. But no. No, he’s the victim because you like his books.

Meanwhile, the other woman hears this woman’s story and actually does want to do the human thing. She wants to make sure this never happens again. So she speaks her truth–backed up with similarly well-presented facts–that her ex husband, the late Budd Hopkins, willingly allowed himself to be taken for a ride by hoaxers and did some pretty awful research, more-so than he ever admitted. And what does she get for her efforts? What does she get for doing the right thing in ufology and exposing the terrible science that effectively came to define abduction research and changed the lives of the subjects involved in his work? She gets censored and harassed and has sexist insults slung at her. For years. By adults.

Oh, she’s the angry ex. Oh, she’s crazy. Oh, this is a woman scorned getting revenge for… we don’t know because we aren’t in their lives, we just like his books and assume she’s out to get him because that’s what we’re told to think by his friends. So let’s try to get her videos banned from youtube and her web presence shut down. Let’s ignore all of the factual evidence presented and make this about personalities. Let’s erase reality
jayvay.wordpress.com...
edit on 19-1-2015 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2015 @ 06:36 PM
link   

originally posted by: PlanetXisHERE
Here is info on the Roper Organization Poll that indicated 2% of the population had had abductee experiences:

...

Pre-testing the indicators had assured Bigelow and his team that they could discriminate between true victims of alien abduction and non-abductees with over-active imaginations. Positive responses to specific questions would definitely indicate an abduction had occurred. The test also had built-in questions to detect fraud. For example, a positive response to "Do you remember seeing or hearing the word TRONDANT (a word Bigelow had made up) and knowing it has a special significance to you?" would automatically eliminate the subject from consideration, regardless of other indicators.



Roper's representative American sample of about 6000 adults (with a sampling error of 1.4 percent!) showed that one out of every 50 people met the profile of an abductee. This figure suggests that about 33,000,000 individuals had been abducted in America. A closer look at these specific profiles showed that these people were not "average" at all.


Link


The study in no way proved that 2% of the population were abducted. It is ludicrous for Bigelow and his team to claim that they could distinguish between those actually abducted and non-abductees because there is zero evidence that ETs exist or have abducted anyone.



new topics

top topics



 
28
<< 20  21  22    24  25  26 >>

log in

join