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Debunking Abduction Debunkers

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posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 01:16 AM
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originally posted by: Scdfa

Sorry, but I stand by my opinion. And I am entitled to it. Furthermore, your insistence on labeling me a "believer" is scurrilous.

E.T. has, for many, become a religion. Wouldn't you agree?

Jacques Vallee has been very prescient in his predictions along those lines. Have you read Messengers of Deception or Revelations: Alien Contact and Human Deception?

The E.T. Religion has it's High Priests: Your Friedmans and Jacobs and such preaching from--and worshipping at--the altar of Ancient Aliens.

It has it's Holy Men: Lazar and Corso and Schneider, et. al

It's Holy Books.

And…it's true believers, the disciples: Fill in the blank.


edit on 14-1-2015 by The GUT because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 02:01 AM
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originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: Scdfa

Science explains the natural world, the scientific method is the best means we have at coming to a good description of nature. I would argue that science should still win and it doesn't have to be orwellian, unless of course you are suggesting using logic and testable means to verify data isn't good enough. If that is the case which I am not saying is (or you are trying to say in any way shape or form) what method is best used, psychics?


I think he's suggesting that we skip science and go directly to unquestioned belief.


Of course he is. He lashed out at me when I asked him to just consider he might have been mislead into his beliefs which are without good, valid, evidence. I worry about people so willing to believe something with such flimsy stuff on offer. They're ripe for rip off.


This post is extremely offensive to me, and it tarnishes her reputation as intellectual.

I've told her repeatedly, and clearly, and I will say it again right here and emphatically:

I'm not a believer. My positions do not involve belief.

Twice in this post jade tries to tar me with the words; "belief", "believe".

And although I pointed this out to her again and again, she persists.

Save "belief" for matters of faith, like Jesus, and Santa. You don't need faith when it comes to UFOs.

You see, good people, the UFO issue is NOT divided into two camps, as some would have it;

1.People who believe that aliens are here.

2. People who believe aliens are not here.

End of story. But, no.

Of course, most of us fall into one of these two positions, or somewhere in between. But there is a third group of people, that fall into neither camp, not belief, not disbelief, and not in between. The third group of people:

3. People who KNOW that aliens are here. KNOW it to be a fact.

I can hear your boos and hisses, but that's just the way it is.

I'm in the third group. You can figure out for yourself what type of people would fall into that category. What circumstances, or profession, or location might put a person in the third category, I'm sure you can think of a few.

This is not a pissing contest, pardon the language. It just means I'm not guessing, and I'm not a believer. To me, and all the other people in the third category, the debate is long over.

We should move the issue forward, and start asking the important questions that come next. And they are important questions indeed.


edit on 14-1-2015 by Scdfa because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 02:07 AM
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originally posted by: Scdfa
You see, good people, the UFO issue is NOT divided into two camps, as some would have it;

1.People who believe that aliens are here.

2. People who believe aliens are not here.

End of story. But, no.

Of course, most of us fall into one of these two positions, or somewhere in between. But there is a third group of people, that fall into neither camp, not belief, not disbelief, and not in between. The third group of people:

3. People who KNOW that aliens are here. KNOW it to be a fact.

I can hear your boos and hisses, but that's just the way it is.

I'm in the third group. You can figure out for yourself what type of people would fall into that category. What circumstances, or profession, or location might put a person in the third category, I'm sure you can think of a few.


Well, do tell! Have you done a thread on it? Offered to come forward for the The Discloure Project?



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 02:10 AM
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a reply to: greatfriendbadfoe




And to keep this on topic. I still would like to see the alien ashtray or cigarette lighter. The more I look into this sort of stuff the more the probability blows out. You know 1/ this multiplied by 1/ that multiplied by 1/ the next thing. And it seems that there is a smaller and smaller chance of there being intelligent life.


Alien ashtrays? Alien cigarette lighters? And you expect to be taken seriously on this?



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 02:18 AM
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originally posted by: The GUT

originally posted by: Scdfa

Sorry, but I stand by my opinion. And I am entitled to it. Furthermore, your insistence on labeling me a "believer" is scurrilous.

E.T. has, for many, become a religion. Wouldn't you agree?

Jacques Vallee has been very prescient in his predictions along those lines. Have you read Messengers of Deception or Revelations: Alien Contact and Human Deception?

The E.T. Religion has it's High Priests: Your Friedmans and Jacobs and such preaching from--and worshipping at--the altar of Ancient Aliens.

It has it's Holy Men: Lazar and Corso and Schneider, et. al

It's Holy Books.

And…it's true believers, the disciples: Fill in the blank.



Quite the opposite, Denial is the religion.

Your High Priest: Carl Sagan.

Your holy men: Seth Shostak. Michael Shermer. The Amazing Randi.

Your holy books: Any tripe on Sleep Paralysis.

And don't call me a believer.



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 02:25 AM
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originally posted by: Scdfa
Quite the opposite, Denial is the religion.

Your High Priest: Carl Sagan.

Your holy men: Seth Shostak. Michael Shermer. The Amazing Randi.

Your holy books: Any tripe on Sleep Paralysis.

And don't call me a believer.


Quite the opposite. Although Sagan had his good points. Are you accusing me, too, of calling you a believer? Thus far I have only thought it to myself.

But since you let the cat out of the bag yourself by claiming to be some person connected to the inside and have literal proof because you say so, I feel comfortable calling you a true believer.

Up to this point, I have only been recalcitrant, but I somehow suspect I have slipped over into the scurrilous!

I ask again, have you offered your testimony to The Disclosure Project. Anything?


edit on 14-1-2015 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 02:36 AM
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a reply to: The GUT




I ask again, have you offered your testimony to The Disclosure Project. Anything?


I have not been involved with the disclosure project.

Have I worked with major, well-known researchers? Yes, I have.



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 02:42 AM
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originally posted by: Scdfa
I have not been involved with the disclosure project.

Have I worked with major, well-known researchers? Yes, I have.


Have you shared that here?



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 03:00 AM
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a reply to: Scdfa OK Instead of ashtray or cigarette lighter, let's put it in simpler terms. Where is one SOLID piece of evidence? Just one piece. You don't have any do you. No gear stick, no cigarette lighter, no ashtray no anything. By the way you attacked my spelling shows you are passionate about your beliefs. Fair enough. Who am I to destroy the primitive belief system of a UFOlogist. cheers : ) You mentioned that one could figure out what type of person would fall into the category of KNOWING not believing, maybe some profession? no, me thinks it more likely that it would be someone who is looked after by a profession .................... say ......... psych nurse.



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 05:33 AM
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originally posted by: greatfriendbadfoe
a reply to: Scdfa OK Instead of ashtray or cigarette lighter, let's put it in simpler terms. Where is one SOLID piece of evidence? Just one piece. You don't have any do you. No gear stick, no cigarette lighter, no ashtray no anything. By the way you attacked my spelling shows you are passionate about your beliefs. Fair enough. Who am I to destroy the primitive belief system of a UFOlogist. cheers : ) You mentioned that one could figure out what type of person would fall into the category of KNOWING not believing, maybe some profession? no, me thinks it more likely that it would be someone who is looked after by a profession .................... say ......... psych nurse.



So you added "gear stick" to your request for an alien ashtray or cigarette lighter? Well, now we can take you seriously.


edit on 14-1-2015 by Scdfa because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 05:49 AM
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a reply to: Scdfa I was going to put proper items like parts but decided you weren't worth my time, Sorry Scdfa. That's just how it is. If you are critical of spelling, critical of a glib remark, then I don't want to waste any more time on you



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 06:17 AM
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a reply to: game over man

I checked out all your links. Doesn't explain the phenomenon to me. Sure some cases, but it would catch on by now. Manifesting an Alien Abduction of Grey Aliens teleporting you through your wall, ceiling, or window onto a craft to have experiments done on you to be returned back, people would be doing this all the time for fun. Don't underestimate how crazy people are, especially drug users. Sorry if that sounds funny, but you know people would.

The SP/false memory explanation is only part of the puzzle. People do "do this for fun". There is a whole drug culture and whole other phenomenon based entirely on a drug that lets people see beings. And they think they are real. Which is another part of the puzzle.


My experience happened when I was awake by the way. If Grey Aliens are ever proven to exist, then I would believe my encounter to be real. Until then or if they ever make a return visit, then I say I imagined everything. However it seems too random to have imagined, as I've never imagined anything like that before, or since.
There are ways to account for that. I linked you something earlier that would be my best guess at that type of explanation. But that is entirely up to you. Who is to say exactly what you experienced except for you? I have seen God so like, yeah whatever, right?


Just to throw this out there, why would you question the "evidence" of Grey Aliens, why is it a surprise to you that an advanced lifeform's evidence comes across as make believe or mythology? Neil Degrasse Tyson and Michio Kaku have both mentioned that Alien Technology would seem like magic. So how is that any different than the phenomenon we are studying?
Good point. If Grey aliens are here, they are mimicking hallucinations or putting us into altered states. Not a bad tactic. Or maybe when we are in this state, the beings we see are real.



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 06:25 AM
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a reply to: greatfriendbadfoe


OK Instead of ashtray or cigarette lighter, let's put it in simpler terms. Where is one SOLID piece of evidence?

Dr Jacobs has painstakingly collected panties filled with alien-hybrid DNA and has sent them off for analysis but unfortunately forgot where he sent them. Now that is the hallmark of a serious researcher!
edit on 14-1-2015 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 06:26 AM
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a reply to: game over man
Mhmm, if we could somehow discount psychological phenomena (which we unfortunately cant), it still leaves an interesting mystery. You said that they were covered by black shadows, yet sending mental images of their appearance, and oddly describing their skin. Sounds more deceptive than anything, as they were right there yet not showing themselves? Just from that, sounds more demonic than physical... but again, if true.



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 06:33 AM
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a reply to: Scdfa
Not that im accusing you, but you're acting like a believer in a cult. Promising information that never comes to ensure cliffhanger interest, calling people who dont accept your belief "deniers", attacking third parties (religion) to make your own group seem better...

Seriously, religion has the same amount of evidence as ufology, except a much longer history and billions of witnesses.

You say that you "know" aliens exist, allude to some secret job, but dont elaborate. Dont expect people to believe you.



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 06:49 AM
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a reply to: Scdfa


Sorry, but I stand by my opinion. And I am entitled to it. Furthermore, your insistence on labeling me a "believer" is scurrilous.

A "believer" is the last thing I would call you....and probably the least "scurrilous" thing on my list.




posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 06:56 AM
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originally posted by: funbox

does sleep paralysis come before or after R>E>M sleep,? cant have the hallucinations without being in rem,and if your in rem you wouldn't be awake to realise you was paralysed, could the fear generated by this realisation bring on powerful hallucinations of alien beings?



Just why or how it happens isn't clear. Researchers believe sleep paralysis is caused by a disturbed rapid eye movement cycle because it mostly happens as people are falling into or coming out of REM sleep. During that stage, their brains normally paralyze their muscles anyway -- so they don't act out their dreams. But during sleep paralysis, the sleeper is awake, or half awake, and so is aware she cannot move.


www.webmd.com...


This happened to me, as quoted from another thread:

One night about 15 years ago I was sleeping on the sofabed in the basement when I was suddenly shocked awake. I felt like I was being pressed face down into the bed with a tremendous weight, unable to move or cry out.


The paralysis itself is frequently accompanied by additional phenomena. Typical examples include a feeling of being crushed or suffocated,


I had a sense of presence, as if there were small beings in the darkness around my bed.


the imagined presence of a visible or invisible entity,


There was a deafening buzz... like a billion cicadas,


Humming, roaring, hissing, rushing, zapping, and buzzing noises are frequent in conjunction with sleep paralysis.


and just over the sound I heard "you will not have this technology for another 2000 years".


imagined speech and other noises,


Then suddenly everything was normal.

This only happened once in my lifetime [so far]. I'm not saying definitively that it was an HSP episode, but it does seem to fit that explanation.


Sleep paralysis has been proposed as an explanation for at least some alien abduction experiences, the Oight Hag and shadow people hauntings


en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: draknoir2
Thats my (limited) understanding of it, like a disconnect in the brain, consciousness booting up before paralysis wears off.

Sleep paralysis does have that purpose, prevents you front hurting yourself. I learned that from one dream in high school where I was in a competition, and could only run faster by (physically) bobbing my head forward. Suddenly woke up by smacking my head into the wall. People often forget that every psychological concept evolved that way to serve a practical purpose. Just like with dissociation.



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 12:18 PM
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originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: greatfriendbadfoe


OK Instead of ashtray or cigarette lighter, let's put it in simpler terms. Where is one SOLID piece of evidence?

Dr Jacobs has painstakingly collected panties filled with alien-hybrid DNA and has sent them off for analysis but unfortunately forgot where he sent them. Now that is the hallmark of a serious researcher!


1. Denier rule number one: Don't like the message? Attack the messenger.

How about discussing the issue?

Discuss what these abductees have told not only Dr. Jacobs but others looking in alien abductions. Are you capable of that? Or would that bring you too close to saying something relevant?



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 12:29 PM
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originally posted by: Ridhya
a reply to: Scdfa
Not that im accusing you, but you're acting like a believer in a cult. Promising information that never comes to ensure cliffhanger interest, calling people who dont accept your belief "deniers", attacking third parties (religion) to make your own group seem better...

Seriously, religion has the same amount of evidence as ufology, except a much longer history and billions of witnesses.

You say that you "know" aliens exist, allude to some secret job, but dont elaborate. Dont expect people to believe you.


So ask me a specific question about aliens, their ships, abductions, I will answer as far as I am able. I certainly do not have all the answers, but I can add a tiny piece to the puzzle. I thought ATS might be he place to do that, I was woefully wrong.

NONE OF YOU are really interested in learning from me. You show no intellectual curiosity whatsoever. You're only interested in supporting your status as True Disbelievers. You are far more interested in convincing yourselves that I know as little as you do.
edit on 14-1-2015 by Scdfa because: (no reason given)



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