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Debunking Abduction Debunkers

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posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 09:25 AM
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originally posted by: Ridhya
Scientific method is IMPERATIVE and they have thrown that out the door. This is not a valid study as it is not a controlled experiment.

By the way, all this effort is for myself, because I assume most of you will still ignore it.


No matter what information is presented the Sceptic always boils it down to 'scientiic method' and 'controlled experiment'. Of course in a lab that approach works great. However in the real world it is an impossible standard to meet. Thank God that our Legal system isn't run by 'scientists' demanding controlled experiments to determine guilt...jails would be completely empty!!! Amazingly enough, the legal system performs quite well in the REAL WORLD and doesn't demand what the Skeptic demands.

So, no, your efforts are not ignored but in the REAL WORLD people have to deal with problems and find solutions. It's imperfect, but it works quite well. Join us one day!




posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 09:33 AM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky


So, no, your efforts are not ignored but in the REAL WORLD people have to deal with problems and find solutions. It's imperfect, but it works quite well. Join us one day!

If you are relying on dreams and memories from hypnosis, you are not in the real world.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 09:35 AM
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originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: Ridhya
Scientific method is IMPERATIVE and they have thrown that out the door. This is not a valid study as it is not a controlled experiment.

By the way, all this effort is for myself, because I assume most of you will still ignore it.


No matter what information is presented the Sceptic always boils it down to 'scientiic method' and 'controlled experiment'. Of course in a lab that approach works great. However in the real world it is an impossible standard to meet. Thank God that our Legal system isn't run by 'scientists' demanding controlled experiments to determine guilt...jails would be completely empty!!! Amazingly enough, the legal system performs quite well in the REAL WORLD and doesn't demand what the Skeptic demands.

So, no, your efforts are not ignored but in the REAL WORLD people have to deal with problems and find solutions. It's imperfect, but it works quite well. Join us one day!


In the REAL WORLD people are presumed innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.

Should you ever be accused of a crime you didn't commit I think you will appreciate the higher standard of evidence.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 09:47 AM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky
Well I guess I must be psychic, because I predicted reading that test and writing a long thought out response for an hour would be a waste of time!

There is no need for me to reiterate everything I already said in that post and the follow-up about the questionnaire. So I will say, reread them, because everything I said is relevant to accuracy in testing.

The fact alone that this was of 50 people and 20-something controls, makes it incredibly invalid pertaining to a whole population, as its not even an appropriate sample. Yet they still extrapolate generalities and skew numbers in their favour! Once again, they ignored the "no response" group so that they could skew their affirmative answer to 91%.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 09:56 AM
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originally posted by: Ridhya
a reply to: draknoir2
My point of singling out that question was to show that the questions are skewed. This one has a conditional aspect, what if the person only has one of these events? I cant believe they didnt separate it.


I got that. My point was that it wasn't a valid conclusion based on the test question.
edit on 12-1-2015 by draknoir2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 10:40 AM
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originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: noeltrotsky


So, no, your efforts are not ignored but in the REAL WORLD people have to deal with problems and find solutions. It's imperfect, but it works quite well. Join us one day!

If you are relying on dreams and memories from hypnosis, you are not in the real world.

Nothing about the points I raised, just an insult. Oh well!



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 10:41 AM
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originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: Ridhya
Scientific method is IMPERATIVE and they have thrown that out the door. This is not a valid study as it is not a controlled experiment.

By the way, all this effort is for myself, because I assume most of you will still ignore it.


No matter what information is presented the Sceptic always boils it down to 'scientiic method' and 'controlled experiment'. Of course in a lab that approach works great. However in the real world it is an impossible standard to meet. Thank God that our Legal system isn't run by 'scientists' demanding controlled experiments to determine guilt...jails would be completely empty!!! Amazingly enough, the legal system performs quite well in the REAL WORLD and doesn't demand what the Skeptic demands.

So, no, your efforts are not ignored but in the REAL WORLD people have to deal with problems and find solutions. It's imperfect, but it works quite well. Join us one day!


In the REAL WORLD people are presumed innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.

Should you ever be accused of a crime you didn't commit I think you will appreciate the higher standard of evidence.

Presumed innocence or guilt has nothing to do with my argument in my post.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 10:47 AM
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originally posted by: Ridhya
a reply to: noeltrotsky
Well I guess I must be psychic, because I predicted reading that test and writing a long thought out response for an hour would be a waste of time!

No, as I said in my post it wasn't.



The fact alone that this was of 50 people and 20-something controls, makes it incredibly invalid pertaining to a whole population, as its not even an appropriate sample.

The limited sample size sure does limit the RELIABILITY of the conclusion. It doesn't invalidate the test or the questions. However, as I discussed, in the REAL WORLD there simply aren't 50,000 people stepping forward with claims of alien abduction to get examined by one group, Mufon. YET AGAIN, you apply a method of examination that isn't possible in the REAL WORLD.

Possibly you should actually consider what other people say.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 10:54 AM
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originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: noeltrotsky


So, no, your efforts are not ignored but in the REAL WORLD people have to deal with problems and find solutions. It's imperfect, but it works quite well. Join us one day!

If you are relying on dreams and memories from hypnosis, you are not in the real world.

Nothing about the points I raised, just an insult. Oh well!


So what exactly were you implying with the all caps REAL WORLD? Sorry but I took offense to that and then used the same words you used and points that you did in fact raise. You have made the point that recovered memories are legitimate from dreams and hypnosis but then go on about how things work in the REAL WORLD? So implying that people don't understand the REAL WORLD is insulting but only when its used by someone that disagrees with you?
edit on 12-1-2015 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 10:55 AM
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originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: noeltrotsky


So, no, your efforts are not ignored but in the REAL WORLD people have to deal with problems and find solutions. It's imperfect, but it works quite well. Join us one day!

If you are relying on dreams and memories from hypnosis, you are not in the real world.

Nothing about the points I raised, just an insult. Oh well!


So what exactly were you implying with the all caps REAL WORLD? Sorry but I took offense to that and then used the same words you used and points that you did in fact raise. You have made the point that recovered memories are legitimate from dreams and hypnosis but then go on about how things work in the REAL WORLD? So implying that people don't understand the REAL WORLD is insulting but only when its used by someone that disagrees with



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 10:58 AM
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originally posted by: Ridhya
Another one asks if women have had gynecological issues they believe are related to abduction, how do they know the source? Their own study showed that a third of their 9 "control group" (which it really isnt) women reported gynecological problems.


Nothing wrong with this question or the control to it. The actual source of the gynecological problem isn't under question and the test subject often doesn't even know the source of the problem let alone is qualified to determine the source. The question is to answer if the abductee has any reason to believe a link between the problem and the abduction. This would be a memory of something around that part of the body during the abduction.

It's a question about experiences that include reproduction involvement and is perfectly valid. The control is to establish how many simply have gynological problems.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 11:09 AM
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originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
So what exactly were you implying with the all caps REAL WORLD? Sorry but I took offense to that and then used the same words you used and points that you did in fact raise.

As I said, you can't conduct controlled experiments in the REAL WORLD. Yet that is the demand being made for evidence.

To be honest this thread has been completely ruined...as I predicted at the very beginning. Cause it always happens. I appreciate the effort some posters made to add to the argument, on both sides. To the posters who simply try to rip and shred others while adding nothing I suggest you look in the mirror and ask what you are adding to the world with your actions.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 11:13 AM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky

You don't see the circular reasoning there? It would be one thing if abduction accounts were proven to be real physical events first. then it would make sense. It already implies abductions are related to gynecological issues. you cant then say "see" there is a correlation there. The question itself is leading.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 11:24 AM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky


As I said, you can't conduct controlled experiments in the REAL WORLD. Yet that is the demand being made for evidence.

I have pointed out twice now that there is testable evidence. I even concede your point that Jacobs was merely investigating alien DNA with his requests for panties. Apparently he had a number of samples that came back negative but we can't even see the results and he doesn't remember where he sent them? OK, no problem. Apparently the "breeder" should have enough DNA samples to do a thorough study. Smells fishy



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 11:25 AM
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originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: Ridhya
Scientific method is IMPERATIVE and they have thrown that out the door. This is not a valid study as it is not a controlled experiment.

By the way, all this effort is for myself, because I assume most of you will still ignore it.


No matter what information is presented the Sceptic always boils it down to 'scientiic method' and 'controlled experiment'. Of course in a lab that approach works great. However in the real world it is an impossible standard to meet. Thank God that our Legal system isn't run by 'scientists' demanding controlled experiments to determine guilt...jails would be completely empty!!! Amazingly enough, the legal system performs quite well in the REAL WORLD and doesn't demand what the Skeptic demands.

So, no, your efforts are not ignored but in the REAL WORLD people have to deal with problems and find solutions. It's imperfect, but it works quite well. Join us one day!


In the REAL WORLD people are presumed innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.

Should you ever be accused of a crime you didn't commit I think you will appreciate the higher standard of evidence.

Presumed innocence or guilt has nothing to do with my argument in my post.


I testify that I had a dream in which you committed a crime, and hypnotic regression confirms your guilt.

Thank God our legal system doesn't work this way.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 11:35 AM
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originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: Ridhya
Scientific method is IMPERATIVE and they have thrown that out the door. This is not a valid study as it is not a controlled experiment.

By the way, all this effort is for myself, because I assume most of you will still ignore it.


No matter what information is presented the Sceptic always boils it down to 'scientiic method' and 'controlled experiment'. Of course in a lab that approach works great. However in the real world it is an impossible standard to meet. Thank God that our Legal system isn't run by 'scientists' demanding controlled experiments to determine guilt...jails would be completely empty!!! Amazingly enough, the legal system performs quite well in the REAL WORLD and doesn't demand what the Skeptic demands.

So, no, your efforts are not ignored but in the REAL WORLD people have to deal with problems and find solutions. It's imperfect, but it works quite well. Join us one day!


In the REAL WORLD people are presumed innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.

Should you ever be accused of a crime you didn't commit I think you will appreciate the higher standard of evidence.

Presumed innocence or guilt has nothing to do with my argument in my post.


I testify that I had a dream in which you committed a crime, and hypnotic regression confirms your guilt.

Thank God our legal system doesn't work this way.


unfortunately there was a string of court cases in the 90s based on "recovered" memories of child abuse. There were lots parents and teachers wrongfully accused because of this. This type of testimony is rarely allowed now and in some states its not allowed at all. Testimony based on memories recovered from dreams is only heard whe



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 11:48 AM
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originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: Ridhya
Scientific method is IMPERATIVE and they have thrown that out the door. This is not a valid study as it is not a controlled experiment.

By the way, all this effort is for myself, because I assume most of you will still ignore it.


No matter what information is presented the Sceptic always boils it down to 'scientiic method' and 'controlled experiment'. Of course in a lab that approach works great. However in the real world it is an impossible standard to meet. Thank God that our Legal system isn't run by 'scientists' demanding controlled experiments to determine guilt...jails would be completely empty!!! Amazingly enough, the legal system performs quite well in the REAL WORLD and doesn't demand what the Skeptic demands.

So, no, your efforts are not ignored but in the REAL WORLD people have to deal with problems and find solutions. It's imperfect, but it works quite well. Join us one day!


In the REAL WORLD people are presumed innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.

Should you ever be accused of a crime you didn't commit I think you will appreciate the higher standard of evidence.

Presumed innocence or guilt has nothing to do with my argument in my post.


I testify that I had a dream in which you committed a crime, and hypnotic regression confirms your guilt.

Thank God our legal system doesn't work this way.


unfortunately there was a string of court cases in the 90s based on "recovered" memories of child abuse. There were lots parents and teachers wrongfully accused because of this. This type of testimony is rarely allowed now and in some states its not allowed at all. Testimony based on memories recovered from dreams is only heard whe


Are you okay, Zeta? Did you get abducted?



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 11:58 AM
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a reply to: draknoir2


Are you okay, Zeta? Did you get abducted?
no but I'm going to throw this phone out the wind



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 04:05 PM
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originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: amazing
Great thread...and brings up the most important point, if you firmly don't believe in Abductions. Why are millions of people reporting them and what are the psychological implications of that?



Millions of people in America also believe in Angels and Zombies.



But that misses the point. I believe in God, but have never reported a sighting of him. He's never spoken to me.

It's one thing to believe in something and state that you believe it. It's quite another to say that you've had a personal encounter...a physical encounter of some sort. Especially with the climate of ridicule about this subject. If I openly say I believe in abductions or I believe in God, no big deal. But if I openly say, God just spoke to me or I was abducted, then I'm ridiculed and more. It's a weird phenomenon that requires more study, if we're being honest with ourselves and not trying to be funny with Zombie comments.


Actually, saying you believe in something and saying you have had a physical encounter with it are exactly the same in that they're both claims. When you can produce testable evidence, then you'll have something.


But public perception of those two statements by most people is not the same. That's why there is something to the abduction claims. Maybe not that they were really abducted but a new or evolving psychological condition. You may also believe that awareness ceases at death, but again , that' is just a belief and not something that can produce testable evidence.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 04:33 PM
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a reply to: amazing

But public perception of those two statements by most people is not the same. That's why there is something to the abduction claims. Maybe not that they were really abducted but a new or evolving psychological condition. You may also believe that awareness ceases at death, but again , that' is just a belief and not something that can produce testable evidence.

Except the claim is of a "physical encounter" where they leave "stuff" in peoples underwear and apparently "collections" have been made. The claim is that 10% of the population is physically encountering beings. Now if you are talking about something beyond physical, that is different and requires a whole new way to look at this. I am definitely open to the possibility that there is more here.




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