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Debunking Abduction Debunkers

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posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 02:24 PM
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originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: game over man




I was minding my own business in my backyard late at night when I felt the presence of something, like an animal crossing through the yard. So I get up to look around the yard and thats when a sudden change happened. I started receiving telepathic communications from Grey Aliens whom I could see were in my backyard, but they were covered by black shadows. There were some against the fence and some by the tree, and they were sending me mental images of what they looked like and they were just saying, "Hi we're here, there is 12 of us. We are 3 foot tall Grey Aliens with smooth skin." I would describe their skin color to look like moon-light, and that above message is all they said. I just stood there shocked. Having had ghostly encounters in my past, I knew for a fact this was not ghostly.


Do you not find it odd that a bunch of aliens would say this to you telepathically? Now of course we cannot predict the behaviour of an alien species. But if they really exist and travelled to our own planet from somewhere else. Why do you think they would be in your backyard saying that?

If we had the technology to visit other planets and materialize in someone's backyard then it's sort of the equivalent of saying "Hi we're here. We are 6 foot (choose colour of skin) aliens with neatly styled hair on our heads".



I'd imagine it rather foolish to assume you know how an alien race thinks, wouldn't you agree?


Not as foolish as insinuating you can tell whether people are lying or not on the internet, and claiming aliens not only exist, but abduct people without being able to offer hard proof of it.




posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 02:27 PM
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a reply to: funbox
I'm not the one claiming that alien abductions are a factual reality. Those who do can reasonably expect questions asking for details of the evidence they considered before drawing their conclusions.
We can evaluate the method of gathering evidence, or the tools used, after the details are provided by those who make the claims. So far in this thread the people making assertions have refrained from providing any supportive evidence or any details of their method used to reach their conclusions.
I on the other hand have made no assertions in this thread, so there is no requirement for me to provide any verification or supporting evidence.



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 02:29 PM
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a reply to: mirageman

are you insane ?, why would you even ask? how could any measurable proof be given over the internet ?, only story's can be relayed here , not phials of alien rectum juice


funbox



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 02:31 PM
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Unlike the trolls following this thread and contributing nothing of value, some of us like to contribute information and help people consider the topic of abduction.

www.kathleen-marden.com...

An interesting read from probably one of the best organizations in gathering information in this type of field. Lots of interesting points made in the report.



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 02:31 PM
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originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: game over man


If they don't travel from somewhere else they can't be aliens by definition.

I was wondering why you are convinced they are aliens, for some reason would be in your backyard and would mention the complexion of their skin and describe themselves as "grey aliens" to you?

The fact that you don't consider that situation odd says a lot. Not many people have seen little grey aliens, telepathically conveying themselves exactly as we would describe them (ie. Grey aliens) and discussing the quality of their skin.

Have you not considered any other possibility than you saw aliens?


I said in a specific paragraph how the event did not feel ghostly at all. I hope that makes sense to you. If you have ever been in a house you thought was haunted and you felt scared like there was a ghost or poltergeist, my event did not feel like that! It felt completely different. It felt like Grey Aliens were in my backyard. You also didn't read how I did not see a "ship". You also missed the part where I consider the whole event to be described as what debunkers claim are medical conditions instead of ET abduction or close encounters. So your post right here is putting words in my mouth.



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 02:32 PM
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originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Ridhya

...
He's biased because he believes it to have one underlying cause and as Ive already shown, if a patient specifically seeks out an 'abduction specialist' that indicates that they have already made up their mind. They have the choice to go a standard psychologist. They will not ridicule the belief, because what matters in psychology, is that the patient believes it. Note - a psychiatrist may ridicule them, but that is apples and oranges.


Jacobs actually points out many things he's heard over and over from hypnosis that are NOT well versed in popular culture

This is a fallacious argument, because you are assuming that it's on the patient to know these things. They have to have a general understanding of it, but that's it. The imposition comes from the hypnotist. Jacobs clearly demonstrates a bias, considering that this is his only practice. Anything in his mind or imagination can be transferred onto the patient.

Bottom line, he is not acting professionally.


You're right, a patient who seeks out an abduction specialist has already decided that she/he has been abducted and is looking for confirmation. The so-called abduction specialist is looking for a patient to confirm his theories. That's a bad mix.


Yet that happens all the time with psychologists, psychiatrists, doctors and even lawyers with regard to other topics and seems to be acceptable, why the double standard?



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 02:34 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand




We can evaluate the method of gathering evidence, or the tools used, after the details are provided by those who make the claims.


yep almost answered my question ,you mentioned them but I don't know what they are see , what kind of datasets could I look at to quantify the phenomena , from these overtly mentioned tools ?

I don't need to see anything in a phial or on a petri dish , just a link to a picture(if poss) and a description of what they measure


funbox



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: funbox
Well, certainly wild claims from folk who refuse to provide details of the overwhelming evidence they allegedly have are bound to be dismissed by anyone who does not subscribe to blind faith in witness testimony, and/or solely on the work of Dr Jacob.



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 02:38 PM
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originally posted by: mirageman

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: game over man




I was minding my own business in my backyard late at night when I felt the presence of something, like an animal crossing through the yard. So I get up to look around the yard and thats when a sudden change happened. I started receiving telepathic communications from Grey Aliens whom I could see were in my backyard, but they were covered by black shadows. There were some against the fence and some by the tree, and they were sending me mental images of what they looked like and they were just saying, "Hi we're here, there is 12 of us. We are 3 foot tall Grey Aliens with smooth skin." I would describe their skin color to look like moon-light, and that above message is all they said. I just stood there shocked. Having had ghostly encounters in my past, I knew for a fact this was not ghostly.


Do you not find it odd that a bunch of aliens would say this to you telepathically? Now of course we cannot predict the behaviour of an alien species. But if they really exist and travelled to our own planet from somewhere else. Why do you think they would be in your backyard saying that?

If we had the technology to visit other planets and materialize in someone's backyard then it's sort of the equivalent of saying "Hi we're here. We are 6 foot (choose colour of skin) aliens with neatly styled hair on our heads".



I'd imagine it rather foolish to assume you know how an alien race thinks, wouldn't you agree?


Not as foolish as insinuating you can tell whether people are lying or not on the internet, and claiming aliens not only exist, but abduct people without being able to offer hard proof of it.


My friend, we're just talking about the phenomenon, talking about investigating it, discussing it. You make a rather surprising statement coming from one who investigates UFO phenomenon. You make it sound like it should be a taboo subject. Do you think it should be taboo? Do we have a right to discuss it?

Is it alright with you if we discuss it?

I don't feel I should have to continually clarify my intentions on such a site like ATS, a bastion of free speech; however I will - I am just stating, for the record, I think alien abductions are possible, not certain, given all the information that exists; and compared with many trivial topics that get researched, this one is worth researching.

HAS IT BEEN RESEARCHED AT ALL BY MAINSTREAM SCIENCE?

No, why not? As I have said, this topic would be of utmost important to mankind if true, thousands of more trivial topics have been researched, if there is an even 0.01% chance this is true, it should be investigated.

Unless of course people are too afraid to discuss it, which I DO understand, or they have an agenda to suppress it, which I DO NOT understand.


edit on 11-1-2015 by PlanetXisHERE because: addition

edit on 11-1-2015 by PlanetXisHERE because: addition

edit on 11-1-2015 by PlanetXisHERE because: correction



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 02:42 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: funbox
Well, certainly wild claims from folk who refuse to provide details of the overwhelming evidence they allegedly have are bound to be dismissed by anyone who does not subscribe to blind faith in witness testimony, and/or solely on the work of Dr Jacob.


There are many details in the OP and the video, if you choose not to discuss them we cannot force you.



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 02:46 PM
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a reply to: game over man

I was actually trying to suggest that something may have projected this into your mind that may not be alien at all. but I am perhaps not going about this in the right way today.



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 02:47 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

I don't know what you are referring too ,ive not ever not heard of any physical traces left about afterwards, that is if you mean physical evidence , ie alien juice , a broken part of a surgical implement, an alien sock , etc

are there cases where this or something similar is claimed ? asides from the implant claims, that is

funbox



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 02:48 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Ridhya
Believer: "Alien abductions are a factual reality
Skeptic: "So may I ask what evidence you have?"
Believer: "The acclaimed work of Dr Jacobs"
Skeptic: "But a simple Google search will produce Psychology academics who discredit his methods and conclusions"
Believer: "They are wrong"
Skeptic: "How did you reach that conclusion?"
Believer: "Because Dr Jacobs said so"
Me: "Ah, that's nice, but I remain unconvinced"



When does your play open? Is there still time for you to work on the script?



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 02:51 PM
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originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: game over man

I was actually trying to suggest that something may have projected this into your mind that may not be alien at all. but I am perhaps not going about this in the right way today.


Why don't you be a little more vague....

2nd



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 02:51 PM
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a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

Oh I know and you're right.

I am probably not in the right frame of mind to be discussing things of this nature today. I thought it might be a getaway from a very trying week for a few hours. But I think it might be better to take a chill pill and do something else.

Let me clarify that I actually think there is something at the bottom of all this. Although I am yet to find out what the hell it's all about. AndI am not expressing myself very well in this thread.

So if I have offended anyone I do apologise.



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 02:52 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Scdfa
So you have nothing to offer other than unsubstantiated personal assertion. That's cool, I shall bother you no more and dismiss your claims as being without substance as you choose not to present it to the membership of ATS.


Okay, great. Bye now!



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 02:54 PM
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a reply to: PlanetXisHERE Thank you, I am interested in your various sources of course, but at the moment the only claims being passionately made are "alien abduction is real because I have research which I won't share with ATS", or "alien abduction is real because I trust the work of Dr Jacobs".



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 02:56 PM
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originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Scdfa


originally posted by: mirageman

No I asked if it was not odd that someone thought they heard aliens in their mind. Aliens who described themselves with smooth skin as "grey aliens" standing in someone's backyard. Intergalactic speed dating hey?

Now that might seem quite normal to someone who is convinced aliens exist, who abduct people and is desperately trying to prove it.

But there could well be another explanation for all of this couldn't there?







Nope. The only explanation that makes sense is that people are telling the truth.




How does one sense when a person is telling the truth on the internet?

How do we know that the whole phenomenon is not something entirely terrestrial and the 'experiencer' is not part of a strange experiment? Or perhaps they were being subjected to stimuli by nefarious means? Or of course it could be the experience is not real at all? Are you saying that any one who claims they are victims of 'alien abduction' you automatically take it as a fact?

If that's the case then I think we'll have to respectfully disagree and leave it there.



On that we agree.



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 03:01 PM
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a reply to: funbox I'm not sure what you are referring to either.
There has been no evidence presented in this thread aside from unsubstantiated witness testimony, with a strong focus on statements retrieved under hypnosis. You may choose to accept that as confirmation of alien abduction but it relies solely on faith in the testimony. That is perhaps useful scientifically as far as recording the numbers/demographics of people who claim to have been abducted, but it does not confirm that the abductions were real.
Perhaps you disagree?



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: Scdfa
Do you wish to share your overwhelming evidence of alien abduction with the good members of ATS now?
It's strange that one who can so easily make wild assertions is so unwilling to share the details of the evidence they used to reach such a strong conclusion. Curious, peculiar, and quite amusing to be honest.




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