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Debunking Abduction Debunkers

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posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 05:55 PM
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Yes, if you had brought up this topic to me a few years ago I might have smirked at you or have been sarcastic, and I might have even gotten upset with you if you had pursued the topic.

However, I now know we have been socially conditioned to have such reactions, social conditioning exists, that cannot be disputed.
Dr. David Jacobs gives a very interesting presentation here, I bet more than some of you who are sitting on the fence about this may change your minds after watching this. [snipped]

(Note: Dr David Jacobs has been discussed before on ATS, but I believe not this video and especially not the main points of his assertions)

Intelligent discussion devoid of emotional/ego triggers is requested, disinfo tactics will not garner a response.

Okay, first he talks about comfortable facts and ideas that potentially debunk abductions, I won’t go over that because most of it is self-evident.

In his next section he talks about the reality of abductions, uncomfortable facts and ideas:

- hypnosis is NOT always a key factor in abduction events, some people remember events without the aid of hypnosis

- memory degradation is not always a factor, Dr Jacobs has examined some abduction events that took place only hours before

- abductees are physically missing from their environments during abductions, police can be called, neighbors/friends enlisted in searches, etc

- after reported abduction events, people have marks, cuts, scars on their bodies, the origin of which are a mystery to them – he told the story of one of his patients, one he had seen the day before, who was fine, but talked to him the next day and had brand new scars on both her hands

- the abduction phenomenon is global, it is not only just happening in the US, Dr Jacobs and his colleagues have investigated reports from every continent

- people are sometimes abducted in groups and can confirm one another’s abductions

- bystanders see others abducted and are not abducted themselves

- people return from abductions with clothes on backwards or inside out, without clothes, without jewelry, wearing someone else’s clothes

- abductees, unknown to each other, describe the same “mistakes” when they are returned such as – driving on the wrong side of the road, miles away from where the incident began, returned to locked houses without keys

- abductions seem to be intergenerational

- according to a 1991 poll by the Roper organization, 2% or more of the people in the US may have had abduction-like experiences – you can do the math for the total number

- MMPI data and psychiatric interviews indicate abductees are not, on the whole, mentally unstable, they mirror the population, and most want strict confidentiality and are not looking for fame, money, notoriety etc – and they often put their careers at risk by speaking about it at all

- people describe events that make their stories sound fallacious, if they were making it up they would not do that

Abductees from around the world from different age groups and different social strata describe the same events in the precise detail:
Same procedures
Same aliens
Same surroundings – halls, rooms, walls, ceilings, tables, doorways etc
Same demeanor of the abductors
Same sounds of lack thereof
Same neural engagement and manipulation

Dr. Jacobs says we are left with one of two alternatives:

1. If the abductions are not happening, then this is the most interesting psychological phenomenon ever encountered – yet no one in psychological academia is willing to study it.

2. Abductions are happening, and the governments of the world cannot stop them, thus would like to cover up the whole phenomenon.





edit on 9-1-2015 by PlanetXisHERE because: punctuation

edit on Fri Jan 9 2015 by DontTreadOnMe because: off topic comment removed.




posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 06:30 PM
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a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

Interesting post
, to believe in alien abduction you must believe in UFOs, and I believe. A few years back I was working in late July at a solar PV plant in Gila Bend AZ. Our crew that was doing HV stress cones was moved to night shift as the temperature during the day was exceeding safe levels. Many days we were sent home early.
On one particular night I was gazing up, and not having worked in the desert before, found the figure eight oscillating movement if the stars due to the rising heat fascinating. I pointed this out to the other two members of the crew at the time. We all took notice of one star, which we thought was a satellite as it was moving in a linear orbit across the sky.
As we observed it moving across the sky it stopped the orbit for a while and restarted. I think it was 2009, I was the first of us to say UFO, and then the foil hat routine started. Not the best evidence.
There are so many folks making these claims there must be something to it. So many UFO related topics, crop circles, Linda Moulton Howe's " A Strange Harvest". Yes I believe.....


+7 more 
posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 06:41 PM
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The lack of consistent, verifiable and unimpeachable hard evidence is a tough nut. (Implants? Really?)

If you want the field of UFOs to be a lot of stories, then fine. Stories galore. But if you want something that I can look at myself and prove that something actually happened, then what do you have to show me?

It's not really even about debunking, because there's nothing to debunk. I can't debunk a dream or a delusion or a made-up story. So what's the point?



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 06:44 PM
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a reply to: anarchychaos56

Thanks for sharing, very interesting!

Yes, UFO's and abductions go hand-in-hand.

However, and this is nothing against you, I dislike the term "believer/s".

Many on here use it as a pejorative, and it seems to me that is just another example of social conditioning.

Some here have written recently threads on just "believers", in relation to the UFO phenomenon, though whether the social conditioning is intentional or not is hard to say.

Strange phenomenon gets examined and researched, and labeling people who look at the UFO phenomenon as "believers" is about as logical as labeling people who study anything that is not mainstream as "believers"; would we label people who examine the "Higgs Boson" or "Dark energy" as believers? Of course not.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 06:45 PM
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before I invest an hour and a half of time watching this presentation I would like to ask you the OP what makes you believe it is aliens? I understand that in the beginning paragraph you had said once upon a time you would have been in the category of being highly speculative more or less (thats how I understood what you wrote at least) to now you are on the fence leaning the other way, is this mans lecture and presentation a catalyst in radically changing your view point? An hour and a half is a long time, I am sure that he covers lots of material I am going to watch/ listen but I am curious as to why you presented it the way you did.

I am not here trying to troll you but I really am quite intrigued by your presentation is all, you will get the youtube video camp here, maybe. I'm not one of those guys.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 06:51 PM
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originally posted by: Blue Shift
The lack of consistent, verifiable and unimpeachable hard evidence is a tough nut. (Implants? Really?)

If you want the field of UFOs to be a lot of stories, then fine. Stories galore. But if you want something that I can look at myself and prove that something actually happened, then what do you have to show me?

It's not really even about debunking, because there's nothing to debunk. I can't debunk a dream or a delusion or a made-up story. So what's the point?



I think the point is, is that there is more to the abduction thing then meets the eye something is going on with it whether psychological, aliens, government, etc. I couldn't tell you. I think its worth the look if your interested in this kind of thing at the least. I can't speak for the OP but I have a fleeting interest in abduction theory from time to time, I will look at the info at the least, if its garbage stand by for some point by point shooting of the $h1t



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 06:51 PM
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originally posted by: Blue Shift
The lack of consistent, verifiable and unimpeachable hard evidence is a tough nut. (Implants? Really?)


I don't think implants were mentioned in the OP




If you want the field of UFOs to be a lot of stories, then fine. Stories galore. But if you want something that I can look at myself and prove that something actually happened, then what do you have to show me?


There are hundreds of cases, many right here on ATS. If you want to ignore those, or just see what the MSM wants you to see, or if you are frightened of the truth, there is not much more I can do or say. Here is one right here, recently discussed, that has never been debunked, and the government explanation debunked (thermal layers/inversion):

www.abovetopsecret.com...






It's not really even about debunking, because there's nothing to debunk. I can't debunk a dream or a delusion or a made-up story. So what's the point?



A good portion of ATS is comprised of topics like this. This is the reason many people come to ATS, the truth is hard to find. Why are you on ATS if you think topics like this are a delusion? And BTW, if you had actually read the OP, you would see psychological abnormalities have been completely ruled out in most cases.



edit on 9-1-2015 by PlanetXisHERE because: grammar, syntax and context



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 07:02 PM
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originally posted by: Brotherman
before I invest an hour and a half of time watching this presentation I would like to ask you the OP what makes you believe it is aliens? I understand that in the beginning paragraph you had said once upon a time you would have been in the category of being highly speculative more or less (thats how I understood what you wrote at least) to now you are on the fence leaning the other way, is this mans lecture and presentation a catalyst in radically changing your view point? An hour and a half is a long time, I am sure that he covers lots of material I am going to watch/ listen but I am curious as to why you presented it the way you did.

I am not here trying to troll you but I really am quite intrigued by your presentation is all, you will get the youtube video camp here, maybe. I'm not one of those guys.


About 4-5 years ago I was completely convinced that SETI was real, life existed somewhere in the Universe but we hadn't made contact with it yet, and people who talked about alien abductions were probably mentally unstable and/or doing drugs.

But of course, this is what the government and/or PTB would like us to think, as I mentioned we are heavily socially conditioned on this topic.

But then I stumbled onto Paul Hellyer's video at a banquet, and he was talking about visitor's from another planet. This guy was Canada's Defense Minister at one time, Deputy Prime Minister at one time, he had MAJOR credibility. And was he locked up or something? No, he was living his life. He didn't seal it for me, but he sent me searching, I already knew the MSM was lying to us about many things - what was one more thing? I started searching, found this site and others, and starting putting it all together.

Sure, you have to wade through many hoaxes, disinformation, half-truths - but the evidence is overwhelming, we are being visited, and have been for a long time.

So, what about this guy and this video? Well, again, in cases like these, it is hard to ignore credibility and evidence. Dr. David Jacobs is a university professor and PhD (I'm sure some trolls will trot out PhD's/professor's who were crazy), which doesn't guarantee credibility but aids it tremendously, say over some anonymous person on the internet, like myself or almost everyone else on ATS; and as well all the points he brings up, most of the ones I mentioned in my OP, are very logical.

As I said in the OP, if you are sitting on the fence about this, and this subject interests you, after watching this video you may never view the world the same way again, and if that is not enough to tempt you to watch it, I don't know what is!


edit on 9-1-2015 by PlanetXisHERE because: addition



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 07:05 PM
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a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

Jacobs is 'THE MAN' when discussing abduction...no doubt about it. The problem he brings with his research are pretty serious in my view. I'm well past the 'believer' issue, the research and people coming forward are highly convincing. There are enough hard cases to accept it. I understand you're not wanting the thread to devolve into 'is abduction real or not' which is what they almost always do. It would be nice if people that don't accept it debated it in a separate thread and let one focus on his work.

Anyway, the issues Jacobs research raise for me are:
1. Abductions are happening in the millions yearly. It is a massive conclusion that requires significant 'manpower' to even conduct such an operation. Of course it leads down a path most people don't want to hear about....experimenting and grooming human genetics on a vast scale.

2. Enough abductions have evil intentions to expose them as not for human benefit ultimately. Most people want the benevolent, human loving aliens that want us to join the league of creatures in the galaxy in the future. Jacobs research doesn't find that...he finds evil intent.

People dismiss Jacobs without really diving into his work and getting an understanding of how much work he has done on this issue. The guy has spent years and years at it. It's a deep and dark rabbit hole he shows us...most refuse to go very far in.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 07:14 PM
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a reply to: Blue Shift

Hey Blue Shift, the late John E Mack ( Harvard Phys chiatrist) also explored the abduction experience. He seemed to find it credible.

Nova, John Mack Interview



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 07:27 PM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky

Yes, his conclusions about a massive hybridization program are not exactly uplifting. Because this is kind of stark, it almost makes one wonder about the "channellers" with all their cheerful and promising messages for mankind from purported aliens, if they are just another level of the disinformation campaign of the PTB, diverting people again and again at different levels away from the truth. The only argument in my mind against Dr. David Jacobs is that he hasn't "died" an early death from "natural causes" yet.


edit on 9-1-2015 by PlanetXisHERE because: grammar, syntax and context



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 07:28 PM
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a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

I hope this doesn't devolve your post. It is somewhat related to abduction, but not humans. It is the topic of cattle mutilation, as related by Linda Moulton How's. She was awarded an emmy for her documentary, " A Strange Harvest" which aired on msm, back in the 80's

Wikipedia Linda Moulton Howe

A very intelligent, well spoken lady. I encourage folks to watch her video on YouTube.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 07:28 PM
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a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

I had a question/thought.....is it possible for us (someone like Dr.Jacobs) to equally implant a abductee with a small GPS tracker?

Everyone gets terribly hung up on the whole UFO's aren't real to begin with, the Abductee is lying ect....
BUT!!!

Something clearly is happening to these people. Why FFS aren't we doing something to narrow down exactly what?



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 07:33 PM
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originally posted by: Caver78
I had a question/thought.....is it possible for us (someone like Dr.Jacobs) to equally implant a abductee with a small GPS tracker?

I think eventually the government is going to do just that to everyone. Mind as well just let them pay for it and then pirate the signals later!

edit on 9-1-2015 by noeltrotsky because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 07:37 PM
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originally posted by: anarchychaos56
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

I hope this doesn't devolve your post. It is somewhat related to abduction, but not humans. It is the topic of cattle mutilation, as related by Linda Moulton How's. She was awarded an emmy for her documentary, " A Strange Harvest" which aired on msm, back in the 80's

Wikipedia Linda Moulton Howe

A very intelligent, well spoken lady. I encourage folks to watch her video on YouTube.


Yes, if you study cattle mutilations you quickly come to the conclusion that it is not being done by animal predators, unless predators carry around surgical quality instruments. And similar reports of mutilations come from across the country and around the world, so it is not just a bunch of frat guys/hillbillies out doing pranks.

Please feel free to add in info that gives the overall phenomenon of UFO's/abductions additional credibility in yours or anyone else's eyes, and if the thread devolves drastically onto one particular topic at that point we can see if it can be brought back to the OP.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 07:46 PM
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originally posted by: Caver78
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

I had a question/thought.....is it possible for us (someone like Dr.Jacobs) to equally implant a abductee with a small GPS tracker?

Everyone gets terribly hung up on the whole UFO's aren't real to begin with, the Abductee is lying ect....
BUT!!!

Something clearly is happening to these people. Why FFS aren't we doing something to narrow down exactly what?



Good and legitimate question.

In one part of the video, Dr. Jacobs talks about how he has tried to get some abductees to record themselves being abducted. However, all he gets in terms of a recording is them waking up, walking over to the camera and turning it off. Then the camera turns on and shows them getting back into bed - the abductees don't turn the camera back on.

Of course there is an element of mind control at work here, again I agree hard to fathom, but there is so much we don't know about the universe I would not rule it out or say it was impossible, and if the diagrams of the "grays" are accurate, they do have massive craniums, maybe the extra gray matter is for telepathic ability.

Dr. Jacob says his plan to thwart this mind-control shutting down of cameras is to get someone the abductee doesn't know to put another camera in a secret location and film the first camera the abductee puts in place.

So, I'm sure the same things would happen with a GPS the abductee knew about, it would be taken out, damaged or blocked. You would have to put a GPS into the abductee that they did not know about, that might be tough, I guess you could put it stealthily into a watch or piece of jewelry.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 07:57 PM
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originally posted by: Caver78
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

I had a question/thought.....is it possible for us (someone like Dr.Jacobs) to equally implant a abductee with a small GPS tracker?

Everyone gets terribly hung up on the whole UFO's aren't real to begin with, the Abductee is lying ect....
BUT!!!

Something clearly is happening to these people. Why FFS aren't we doing something to narrow down exactly what?




Yes it is possible for us to do that and has been for some time, which means it might not even be necessary anymore, at least for tracking anyway.

For your second question what should we do? Go on a phantom goose chase? Until people can approach this from a "new" angle all together it is all pointless. I spent a good portion of my life on the wrong path with this stuff and now it is coming together for me. Doesn't really change anything but brings some semblance of understanding.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 08:49 PM
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Actually as far as a tracker goes, the para military already do things like that and alot of the more disturbing types of abductions are military ones, and serious harm can happen. ETs, often will remove anything in you, not because that could track them, but to help people be protected from dangerous emf fields and harmful mishaps in military style abductions. They disable anything they want however. It would be like an ant trying to track an eagle or an advanced holographic jet. Not going to happen.

And abductions can be both physical and material, along with astral and being pulled. More than one way of doing this.

And the part about beliefs, being a believer. That doesnt mean anything in abduction scenario's. I think you're free to be the world's biggest skeptic, but if you're on their list that night, you're going for the ride. Just won't remember a thing.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 10:47 PM
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I would assume if an abductee had a GPS implant the alleged ET's would probably disable it, however this is overlooking one important fact. They DO screw up occasionally. At least a device possibly may tell you enough to know the person
went up/left/walked a mile from their bedroom ect...

@ Arpad
I get that.....thats why as soon as I could jump in the thread with "something" more than the same old tired talking points I did. I'll admit to not being a genius, what sort of out of the box ideas would you suggest?

Of course the govt has cutie little tech toys they can deploy/ or already have, but everyday people aren't darpa. We have to go with what is available. It's sad that our digital tech can be messed with so easy by the alleged ET's so why are we still trying the camera watching a camera technique?

Maybe we should go lower tech?



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 10:48 PM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky

LOLOLOL
That's a discussion I'm not going to even get into!!



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