Let's Cut To The Chase, Cut The Crap, And Talk About Radical Terrorism On A Real Level

a reply to: Hefficide

I posted in another thread earlier today wondering why.... of all the countries we have bombed in the Middle East.... why have we not bombed the Saudis?

a reply to: khnum

The problem is that we are too politically correct as a society. They might get offended, and they are savvy enough to have figured out exactly how to use this against us.

Add to that the fact that the progressive elements in society believe very much that the enemy of my enemy is my friend and that any means to an end is acceptable, and they are perfectly willing to allow Muslims free reign to act so long as what the Muslims want helps them further their own agenda of weakening Western society and Western societal values.

I think many on the left make the mistake of not realizing that Muslims believe every bit as strongly as they say they do and when the time comes for the left to turn on them, they will be every bit as vicious against them as they're being against Christians and Jews in the Middle East now.

I find it very sad that so many cannot or, worse yet, will not see the 'other's point of view.

Coming to understand another point of view doesn't mean condoning the actions taken in the name of said point of view.

Islamists are fighting for freedom. They don't want to live in a society or economic system imposed on them from outside any more then the West wants to live under their preferred way of life. Their way - our way, both with good and bad aspects.

Is physical terrorism truly worse then economic terrorism as practiced by the Western powers? I could argue the second kills and harms more innocent people but is less dramatic.

If Syria was physically and economically trying to impose their way of life on us, the US, I'm sure you'd call terrorists bombing Syrian facilities 'freedom fighters'.

We can deal with one another but only if we respect each others right to self-determination - I believe that was a key motivator for the American Colonies revolution against Imperial England. Was the sinking of the ships in Boston harbor an act of terrorism or heroism?

a reply to: Willtell

thank you,

a reply to: FyreByrd

They are not fighting for freedom.

They are fighting to impose their theocratic religious system on all the rest of the world.

If you think they are fighting for freedom, you are deluded. Or do you want to be liberated into becoming a good little Muslim?

Detective 101.

Who benefits most from X?


In ANY of there "terrorism" scenarios, its always the people being attacked... rarely do we see mass terror attacks against ANY Government or Military facility.
How does it benefit the currently portrayed ISIL(ISIS, IS???, Insert Government Covert Group here) to attack civilians?
Granted it may cause a little rippling of fear among the people of the affected community. But in the long run, they attract more hate than fear. So it doesn't really benefit them at all.

However, if they were to strike at any Government or Military target and were successful, that would cause massive ripples.
Not only for the Government they are trying to oppose, but that symbol of power being taken out would cause more fear through the general population.

I find it hard to believe that any of the "terror" attacks that have occurred in the past 20 years were actually organized and initiated by groups living in caves in some desert half way around the world.
I'm not saying it isn't possible... Just highly unlikely.

Edit;

So coming back to my original thought... To attack people and communities only drums up hate vs the portrayed "terrorists".
Therefor building support to attack said "terrorist" organisation.
Seems like it might be something a Government may want to go to War... like in the past....

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Hefficide

I posted in another thread earlier today wondering why.... of all the countries we have bombed in the Middle East.... why have we not bombed the Saudis?

We will, once the Saudi King and the crown prince both die.

a reply to: ketsuko

Europe within 15 years will probably be one giant Kosovo,and just like Kosovo the Islamic militants will try to eliminate church's,shrines and graveyards and remove all evidence of non Islamic faiths,15 years out in the present the only European entities I see other than UKIP in the UK making any sense about this threat are extreme right wingers,these Islamic fools are polarising themselves and creating fear a perfect recipe to resurrect a few Nazi ghosts...your progressive elements will be roadkill in that environment.

a reply to: ketsuko

How do you just get to someone?
Seriously?

This was on my mind all afternoon, how does someone raised in westernized society become radicalized so easily?

I believe at this point we are pretty much screwed.

originally posted by: Boeing777

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Hefficide

I posted in another thread earlier today wondering why.... of all the countries we have bombed in the Middle East.... why have we not bombed the Saudis?

We will, once the Saudi King and the crown prince both die.

Tough nut to crack.

The House of Saud

They have a rich history.

And how do we know for sure their roots are entirely Muslim?

a reply to: khnum

That's been something my husband has been saying. Europe has an ugly history for how its people treat foreigners. They've only been relatively civilized about it for a few decades. The terrorists are really poking a very nasty sleeping boar with that stick, and if the Europeans remember their less civilized spines, things are going to get very ugly over there.

humanity is at war with only one enemy. itself. it will lose this war.

originally posted by: RoScoLaz4
humanity is at war with only one enemy. itself. it will lose this war.

no doubt

a reply to: ketsuko

The end result is that even though we are talking about one sect. It is metastasized like cancer world-wide.

I am not going to waste my time reposting what happens in every western country based on the percentage of Muslim population.. Just facts and figures that bore the mathematically challenged. France with it's percentage of Muslims is right on schedule .

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind is a nice pacifist statement. Where in reality the only way to get rid of a cancer is to cut it out or poison it.. It will metastasize and destroy the host.

After the first mosquito bite one finally figures it is better to not get bit or to swat the bugger before it or it's brethren sucks your life's blood. It is the mosquito's nature, no reasoning with it and pretty soon when you see one flying minding it's own business you go out of your way to swat it.. Europe and any other country that through their immigration policies has allowed a few cancer cells into their mist IMO will have a growing problem with so called radicalism.

Even in pacifist Thailand over 10,000 reported killings way down south (Muslim population has grown) of people going to market, nurses, teachers, and other just everyday people, who thought they would live to see another day until an IED or bullet ended their life.

Apologists can proclaim all they want for these acts... and the will... until someone they know or loved is killed by a 14th century ideology that seems incapable of getting along with anyone outside their sect or belief system..

I really want to post more but we are off to an orphanage to feed and give presents to kids who have nothing because their parents are dead or they were abandoned ...



Heff as usual your Post is well thought out and something all should consider. Saudi (having lived there and still have acquaintances working there) is a hell hole on earth unless you are male and very rich. At least that is the general consensus from most if not everyone I have known.

my point
From bikini babe to burka-clad jihadi fighter with a crossbow: 'Wife' of Kosher supermarket killer becomes France's most wanted woman after going on the run

www.dailymail.co.uk...

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Hefficide

The opening post in this thread, is the most important, the most required reading of any post over the course of the last seventy two hours, and probably an awful lot longer than that.

Hefficide, I could not possibly agree with you more in everything you just outlined. I think the major difficulty is that people just do not accept the fact that although it is right and proper to apportion blame toward perpatrators of such callous acts as we have seen over the last few days, it is not right and proper to blame an entire faith. People find it easier to continue to avoid imagining their fellow human beings with the appropriate level of complexity, in order to recognise that every human being, regardless of their demographics, is an individual, and should be dealt with as such.

Acts such as those which came to pass in France over the last few days, and the inevitable but futile reaction from right wing activists in the region, will only fan the flames, and I fear for the ability of everyone in the area to be able to keep their cool and recognise the levers being applied to them, for what they are. The truth is, that terror and xenophobia cannot be defeated with terror and xenophobia. Like the mutually assured destruction paradigm of the cold war, these things are self annihilating, and the only result, assuming a failure of all parties to work together to come to peaceful terms, will be devastation everywhere.

Its not the faith it is the words of their profit and religious text. Islam as it is inspires evil.

a reply to: Hefficide

I agree with what you said. The catalyst being us carpet bombing in the name of corporations is going to create more of this type of martyr. We won't stop either one. What do you want the good people to do? March on Washington DC with pitchforks? Blow up Mosques? I'm not planning on doing either. I'm creating a different way for myself. If the fight of either come my way, I'll have to deal with it. I'm all open to a better way. I'm all open to peace of mind.

When it's all said and done, we still have the problem. We know the bad guys. We know the propaganda. We know the hate breeding on all sides. I can sit it out by not doing anything and hope some crazy bastard doesn't shoot up the place my family is in. I choose not to live in fear. That's just not going to happen. I am to the point where I'm selfish about my little world. I will defend it to the death. The cold war propaganda didn't have shootings every week. This one does. I'm open for answers to a better way of dealing with it. Until then, I'm arming up for self defense purposes. The radicals are only part of the reason why. The people that were born here are crazy also.

Have you seen this?.

www.bbc.co.uk...


A Saudi Arabian blogger has been publicly flogged after being convicted of cybercrime and insulting Islam, reports say.

Raif Badawi, who was sentenced to 1,000 lashes and 10 years in jail, was flogged 50 times. The flogging will be carried out weekly, campaigners say.

I can't wait til the day when we don't need their oil and we can cut off links to them.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Backwards people do need to be told what to think. Call me whatever you want.

originally posted by: Hefficide
And our bogeyman... Radical Islam. Our younger members will think back and count September 02, 2001 as the day this specter first cast it's shadow upon us. Others, a bit older, will recall the year 1990 and Saddam Hussein invading Kuwait. Others, still, will harken back to the Munich massacre of 1972. Others, even before that.

Not Radical Islamist motivated:

1990 and Saddam was not motivated by radical Islamic activity.
1972 and Munich wasn't either---in the 1970's, the Palestinian terrorist movements were nationalistic and Communist, and were supported by the USSR.


Radical Islamist motivated:
1979, Iranian revolution
1979, Grand Mosque seizure in Mecca. (And of course America was falsely blamed).
1983 Beirut barracks bombing
1996, Khobar Towers bombing

then why are we still allied to Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of radicalized Islam? Why are our reporters not covering the fact that Saudi Arabia is the home of Wahhabism, also called Salafi. This is the heart of Islam and the home of Shariah law.

Dig deeper - and maybe some of our older members will also remember a time when we called Afghanistan ally in it's war against our prior bogeyman, Communist Russia.

When I was a child, the propaganda on television and in school had me totally convinced that my life would end in a flaming ball as nuclear missiles crossed the planet as the US and Russia mutually annihilated one another in a fit of stupidity. We were told that this almost happened on several different occassions and the fear was deeply impressed into our beings.

In hindsight we understand that it was all propaganda designed to make us hate Russia because capitalism just had to overcome communism. It was political chess and our fear was a necessary ingredient in perpetuating the cold war.

No, there actually was a real cold war with USSR.

So I ask you again. If we are at war with extreme Islam, then why do Mecca and Medina still stand? Why do we still ally ourselves and sell arms to Saudi Arabia? The answer is quite clear to me. We are not at war with radical Islam at all.

Because the nation and government of Saudi Arabia is not exactly the same as ISIS, and they have lots of oil, and the alternative is worse.

Nor is it at war with us.

Radical Islamists think they are at war with us, and act upon it.