Let's Cut To The Chase, Cut The Crap, And Talk About Radical Terrorism On A Real Level

Lets not forget where most of the "terrorists" on 9/11 came from...

I agree 200% with Heff here on this.

We ought to be out producing Saudi here soon domestically, so I for one say let's ditch OPEC and refine our own oil and have cheap gasoline here in America and sell it for profit abroad.

Hell, we went into Iraq over "suspected" WMD that in all reality hardly posed any real threat. Saudi Arabia poses a much greater threat to America...

I think you can read between the lines ATS on where I stand and what we ought to be doing with Saudi Arabia...

a reply to: Hefficide

Bombing for peace my ass. We are bombing for Wal Marts and the public acceptance of a surveillance state. 

Damn straight. But, if that is pointed out anywhere besides a conspiracy board it's met with blind patriotism. And if you use unchecked immigration and endless war as proof or rebuttal, you are accused of nationalism or isolationism.

I'm sick to death of "isms".

a reply to: Hefficide

How many here can discern the truth, see through the smoke and mirrors, and find the ugly truth lurking behind it all? When will we all wake up enough to understand that we are falling for the oldest trick in the book and that we are doing so salivating and foaming at the mouth with glee? Hate is the most base of our emotions and the easiest to manipulate. So I ask you again. If we are at war with extreme Islam, then why do Mecca and Medina still stand? Why do we still ally ourselves and sell arms to Saudi Arabia? The answer is quite clear to me. We are not at war with radical Islam at all. Nor is it at war with us. We're just seeing the pawns moving in a much bigger game and ignoring the real power pieces on the chessboard.

So it makes perfect sense that an islamic terror plot like in France could be a false flag event. For the knee jerk simpletons, not saying that the shooting didn't happen.

originally posted by: 8675309jenny
a reply to: Hefficide

I'm sorry Heff, but you are mistaken. Just as all the politicians are mistaken.

Islam is a snake that enters a rabbit's den to keep warm in the winter. The snake takes advantage of the friendly rabbit's warm home until spring when it's warm outside. Then it eats the rabbit.


You say you want to cut through the crap??
Well here you go; the truth about Islam:

You want to know about Islam? Read the Quran, don't just cherry pick some verses or post a random youtube video.

a reply to: Hefficide

So let's follow this through...

If your premise is correct, and you make a thread on a "fringe" conspiracy site espousing your claim that we're being brainwashed, doesn't that play into the hands of TPTB?

Answer honestly.

Any possible validity of your point is going to be washed over by pointing at the source -an anonymous poster on a fringe conspiracy site preaching to the choir.

a reply to: 8675309jenny

One mans opinion does not a religion nor a peoples make. He's an example of exactly what was discussed in the OP.

a reply to: Hefficide

Killing as a means of strengthening/honoring religious memes was nearly ubiquitous as recently as 1500 years ago. Let's just say life was very cheap back then.

Memes that have rigid rules for every facet of existence are dying off. As a humanist, I see that as progress. Memes that require human operatives to defend "Gods" honor are fading away. Again, more progress.

There is only one religion left that retains these features in it's core. This meme is still very dangerous to human life. I don't believe that the meme allows moderates. Moderates are simply straying from the core program. I know that and I believe they know that. That's why they never seem to act to reign in the highly convicted.

The danger of Islam is a troubling situation. Do we have humans here or automatons running a program? I don't know.
It's worth noting that I would be killed for writing these words if they could do it.

I absolutely reject their meme and any attempt to make me live by it's rules.

a reply to: kosmicjack

I'm sick to death of "isms".

I find you organisms pretty annoying too.

How do we know for sure if these "radicals" are actually Muslims?

a reply to: Hefficide

Interesting take, not unique, but standard conspiracy stuff that has merit but may be too dogmatic in itself, as dogmatic as religious fundamentalism in a sense.

The overt reason why the US doesn’t bother or blame the Saudis for Terrorism is that the fact of the matter is that ALL WAHHABI-Salafi AREN'T VIOLENT JIHADISTS.

Coming from an Islamic culture I know this personally…this is not any theory.
I knew these men when they weren’t violent. They were just stupid fundamentalists who thought Islam was having your woman wearing curtains and to eat with your hands and other crazy literalist medieval stuff.

Things that had you despising their narrow minded literalist dogma but you didn’t hate these almost child like people.

Until they were made into murdering cowards by their older, low life Imams and sheiks.

I grew up with Islamic Salafi, though ALWAYS debating and arguing with their narrow literalist interpretation of Islam.

It wasn’t until after the Afghan war were a good chunk of Salafi were taken to violent “Jihad”

The CIA and the Pakistani ISI went and radicalized Pakistani, Saudi and Afghanistan Salafi to fight the Russians.

I personally don’t lay all the blame on those that radicalized these morons. At the time it made sense in order to fight the Russians. The CIA and the other groups probably didn’t consciously make this jihad monster, or in other words that wasn’t their intent.

Though they did get the steam roller started and aimed it at Russia. They didn’t realize the same insanity they fostered would, because of the nature of religious fundamentalism, come after them next.

To understand this one has to understand the nature and history of Islam AND fundamentalism…

originally posted by: xuenchen
How do we know for sure if these "radicals" are actually Muslims?

Good question, but lets just assume they were Muslims.

originally posted by: Hefficide

Hello again ATS!

Obviously it has been a very active and emotional period of time for all of us here on ATS. Tempers are flaring, and rightfully so, as shootings and acts of depravity that shock the very core of the human heart play out on an increasingly global and frequent basis. Those of us with maturity and souls silently weep over the lost lives, others come along to play the new game of trololololol - further exasperating the frustration that we, as a collective feel.

As a community we are comprised of individuals which means we all have our personal takes and opinions about what to think and how to piece it all together. This is natural and healthy. Even when those posts cross the T&C, ending up removed, with few exceptions the natural and healthy aspect still applies... it is only site decorum that seeks to keep the anger toned down to a civil and non traumatizing level.

Sadly, in some of our more desperate and emotional of moments, we become that which we hate. We seek to respond to heinous and barbaric acts with equal or greater heinous and barbaric acts. This, too, is natural. I know that most of us here try to walk the higher path and understanad that an eye for an eye creates a world of the blind where nobody wins.

And our bogeyman... Radical Islam. Our younger members will think back and count September 02, 2001 as the day this specter first cast it's shadow upon us. Others, a bit older, will recall the year 1990 and Saddam Hussein invading Kuwait. Others, still, will harken back to the Munich massacre of 1972. Others, even before that.

In our "war" to defeat "terror" ( how one wages war upon an emotion is beyond me, but what the Hell, Orwell nailed the future and he understood the concept ) we've bombed quite a few sovereign nations. We've run off the books operations in several others. We've threatened a few more. We, as a western people, brought back the war that Richard the Lionheart fought in, taking away the one goal he had - to conquer Jerusalem.

But here is the gigantic white elephant in the room. The question few seem to ask and most don't even understand. If we are at war with "terror" - assuming "terror" to be a code for radicalized Islam, then why are we still allied to Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of radicalized Islam? Why are our reporters not covering the fact that Saudi Arabia is the home of Wahhabism, also called Salafi. This is the heart of Islam and the home of Shariah law.

Dig deeper - and maybe some of our older members will also remember a time when we called Afghanistan ally in it's war against our prior bogeyman, Communist Russia.

When I was a child, the propaganda on television and in school had me totally convinced that my life would end in a flaming ball as nuclear missiles crossed the planet as the US and Russia mutually annihilated one another in a fit of stupidity. We were told that this almost happened on several different occassions and the fear was deeply impressed into our beings.

In hindsight we understand that it was all propaganda designed to make us hate Russia because capitalism just had to overcome communism. It was political chess and our fear was a necessary ingredient in perpetuating the cold war.

Now we stand, again, in a landscape of terror and fear. Only this time around the stakes have been upped a bit. Rhetoric and indoctrination leads a very small minority of Muslims into buying into the extremist view of martyrdom and they act. The war that Islamic groups have had going on with Isreal for roughly seventy years has taught their leaders, well, how to coerse the young into these irrational and extreme acts.

An effective tool, to be sure. A few dozen men, over the past fourteen years have become high profile examples. And those few men have managed to generate, in the west, such a frenzy that the media has had zero difficulty in turning that frenzy into a lynch mob mentality of blind, ignorant, ill-informed hatred.

Nearly twenty-five straight years of attacks upon the middle east from the US and it's allies have not done wonders to win us any friends in the Islamic world either.

It all serves to feed the fear machine. But who does it benefit? Certainly not the citizens of the west. We've lost freedoms, our sense of purpose, our moral compass, our compassion, and our ability to see beyond the hatred. Neither does it benefit the citizens of all of those Islamic nations that have seen their countries bombed to rubble and puppet regimes put in place of their former governments.

Some claim that there is an element in the US that is trying, very hard, to fulfill the Book of Revelations and speed the second coming of Christ. There are those who claim that some Muslims are doing the same to bring about the Mahdi. While I believe both of these theories are real and part of the process - they still do not address who is gaining from all of this.

But I can tell you who is. Governments and Corporations. Governments that are gaining more and more control over once free peoples and Corporations who are making record profits from the endless war and ability to exploit formerly off-limits resources and markets.

Bombing for peace my ass. We are bombing for Wal Marts and the public acceptance of a surveillance state.

We have been divided by rhetoric, manipulation, and lies - on both sides - and our house is falling.

How many here can discern the truth, see through the smoke and mirrors, and find the ugly truth lurking behind it all? When will we all wake up enough to understand that we are falling for the oldest trick in the book and that we are doing so salivating and foaming at the mouth with glee?

Hate is the most base of our emotions and the easiest to manipulate.

So I ask you again. If we are at war with extreme Islam, then why do Mecca and Medina still stand? Why do we still ally ourselves and sell arms to Saudi Arabia? The answer is quite clear to me. We are not at war with radical Islam at all. Nor is it at war with us. We're just seeing the pawns moving in a much bigger game and ignoring the real power pieces on the chessboard.

Thanks for reading ATS and I hope I've given you something to ponder.

That's just too much for me to take in and think about in one sitting, especially after a couple glasses of wine and a can of beer, but I really want to thank you for one of the best posts of the day. Good going. I'll revisit..tomorrow.

Oh, the entire Middle East is a problem. Most of the place is a nest of vipers. And none of them should be trusted. If they didn't have oil, they would have been let well enough alone to stew in their own juices long ago.

However, we shouldn't forget that they started this with the U.S. just as soon as we have merchantmen sailing the sea. Why do you think the line about the shores of Tripoli is in our Marine Hymn? It's because they started capturing and enslaving our sailors as soon as the British stopped protecting our ships after the Revolution. When their ambassador was asked why. Guess what? They through out religious reasons very much the same as today's and demanded an annual ransom or they'd continue (jizya?). It was a ransom our government paid until Jefferson become president and went to fight the Barbary pirates.

They have always been this way.

Something needs to happen to stop this. Maybe we ought to wall off the entire Middle East and fill it with Jell-O and someone yell, "Wrassle!"

a reply to: Jamie1

Actually, with sincere modesty, some of what I write tends to filter up and hits more mainstream audiences. Of course my name is far removed and the words get shifted around. But it has happened a few times.

Hopefully this message will be one of the ones that some reporter reads and feels inspired by.

a reply to: Hefficide

Terrorism is a control mechanism used by individuals or groups to ensure collective compliance with an intended philosophy - the intended philosophy of radical terrorism is the creation of a one-world government.

If you see-out radical terrorism to its inevitable conclusion, then religion (all religion) will be wiped out (because it is seen as a generator of terrorism) and all citizens of the earth will be afforded the same protections as the next person - as long as you consent to the one world government - if not then you will be deemed a terrorist and eliminated so you do not share in the wonderful NWO.

The house of Saud, among other global elite schools of thought, don't give a fat ship about religion - they have their god in gold, fine jewels, money and all those things the average citizen can only dream of having - they have used the "God of the masses" to bring about division, weakening the unity of nation populations in favour of a global citizenry mentality.

We will have a world government whether you like it or not. The only question is whether that government will be achieved by conquest or consent Paul Warburg

by the end of this decade we will live under the first one world government that has ever existed in the society of nations....a government with absolute authority to decide the basic issues of survival. One world government is inevitable Pope John Paul II

We are at present working discreetly with all our might to wrest this mysterious force call Sovereignty out of the clutches of the local nation states of the world. All the time we are denying with our lips what we are doing with our hands Professor Arnold Toynbee, June 1931 speech before the institute for the study of international affairs in Copenhagen.

Most Americans are so brainwashed by the time they complete 12 years of Government education, that they cannot even recognize mass murder by the US government as a crime Jeff Knaebel

We need to do this everyday of the week, and really just brainwash people into thinking about guns in a vastly different way Eric holder.

a reply to: Hefficide
I, as apparently you, were raised with the generation of "duck and cover" kids throughout the 50's, and like you I have watched the drummers beat the drums and clash the cymbals far to long. And I marvel at your continuing positive hope.

While reading your OP and agreeing almost down the line, I I found myself listening to a lone piano, tinkling out some quiet melody as little pirouetting statues vibrated in circles on a mirrored dance floor. And finally as if some smirking god were playing an Ennio Morricone score, the music slowed and dwindled and whispered and the tension in the spring ran down before the final note.

Then I read the post after your OP and saw that there were way fewer stars on it's opposing position than on yours and fickle as I may be, I once again found hope. Thanks H.

originally posted by: Boeing777


You want to know about Islam? Read the Quran, don't just cherry pick some verses or post a random youtube video.

originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: 8675309jenny

One mans opinion does not a religion nor a peoples make. He's an example of exactly what was discussed in the OP.

Did either of you actually watch the video ??? A room full of 'normal' muslims profess their full support of radical ideology. It clearly shows that.

The main problem is with the dominant sect of Islam extant in the world today. It is being bankrolled by the Saudis. I am unclear how much of this has to do with them supporting it (i.e. they are Wahhabi themselves) and how much of it has to do with them simply deciding that its cheaper to buy them off and pack them off to other places neatly making them someone else's problem. Either way, it doesn't endear them to me because to date, Wahhabi imams are quickly radicalizing muslims in just about every country where you can find a decent-sized muslim population on earth.

Indonesia used to be a good example of a majority muslim country that had good plurality and a very progressive and open-minded attitude in its muslim population, but they've even started getting to them, too.

The end result is that even though we are talking about one sect. It is metastasized like cancer world-wide.

So why start a new game of trolololol?

I was reading your post until this sentence.. "And our bogeyman... Radical Islam."

Now, not only do you stand with moderate Islams, which you rightly pointed out exist earlier, now you're saying Radical Islam is nonexistent, a bogeyman. Grrrr don't get me started...I'm leaving it at that.

Im sorry but what we are confronting is the greatest threat to Western society since communism,unlike communism however no one has the courage to take on this demon,there are no radio free america's broadcasting anti radical jihad speeches,and the militants have facebook,twitter, social media hell even tshirts; the West has lost the information meme war for the disenfranchised youth.outrage after outrage occurs and there is nothing but mealy mouth apologists our government,media and legal systems have been infiltrated and unduly influenced by this cult.Europe deserves to burn from one end to the other for its stupidity in taking in these people....and indeed it will