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Let's Cut To The Chase, Cut The Crap, And Talk About Radical Terrorism On A Real Level

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posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 10:11 PM
a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Great post, thanks for sharing! I learned a very important bit a of history today.

posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 10:17 PM
a reply to: Jamie1

You mean killing like what we are doing with our drone strikes, our false flag invasions of Afghanistan, Iraq, bombing, Yemen, Bosnia, Libya, Somalis, and Syria. Just asking. Oh yeah Ukraine.
Just keep watching the msm and believing, your programming.

posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 10:18 PM

off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 10:36 PM

originally posted by: Hefficide
So I ask you again. If we are at war with extreme Islam, then why do Mecca and Medina still stand? Why do we still ally ourselves and sell arms to Saudi Arabia? The answer is quite clear to me. We are not at war with radical Islam at all. Nor is it at war with us. We're just seeing the pawns moving in a much bigger game and ignoring the real power pieces on the chessboard.
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

There is a much simpler answer here that you are overlooking.
The fact is that the majority of Islam is quietly accepting of radical Islam, which is why the supposed 'non-radical' Islamist's aren't leaving their religion in droves. Yet, as we are a country that was founded on freedom of religion, we cannot pick on any one religious group. That leaves us playing a game we can't win in which the power base of the enemy can't really be touched for fear that we are discriminating against a religion. The difficult truth is that Islam is xenophobic and cannot peacefully coincide with any other religion, this has been proven time and again, and is shown in their very own scriptures. However, we cannot be politically correct, and at the same time fight against a group that has shown that its willingness to hide behind religion while taking pot shots at everyone that is not a member of it. While we're pussyfooting around, afraid to not be politically correct, they are taking advantage of our weakness and using it against us.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

edit on 1/10/2015 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 10:47 PM

originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: 8675309jenny

Your definition of radical terrorism is some guys looking at your wife? And you further think this a trait of Islam? That kind of thing happens in the high end malls in Beverly Hills.

Next step - label the NBA a terrorist organization because several of them are always oogling a Kardashian.

Please stop trying to maintain the PC status quo.

It was 3 youngish (early 20's) guys wandering the streets of Oslo at 4:30am.

And they weren't simply 'looking' at her. My wife felt absolutely threatened, and she would tell you that herself.

I had a meeting the next day and afterward, one of the guys there mentioned how Oslo has really gone to crap and so he now lives outside the city. He said he's ashamed for a foreigner to see his country like this, and specifically cited immigration as the problem.

edit on 10-1-2015 by 8675309jenny because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 11:36 PM

originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: TonyS

Freedom is a beautiful thing... it infects people once they've tasted it. It's a healthy virus. I'm aging myself and happen to be the eldest child of the youngest child from a large, large family - thus the stories I heard growing up were not about the same things my contemporaries parents were discussing. My friends parents were all talking about the sixties. My family was telling me about how my grandfather sold the farm, during the depression, and left Oklahoma ( a reservation ) and moved to California.

Honestly - there are things we consider normal today that would have stopped the entire country dead in it's tracks 60 or 70 years ago. Things like an unwed mother... or a divorced couple... or a black family moving into town. These things would have flown in the face of convention - even for freedom loving Americans.

But the virus - that freedom strain... it kept working.

Now imagine if the repressed of this other religion become infected as well. What a world of possibility that opens up.

Heff, I seriously sympathize with your feelings here. I really do, and I used to feel almost exactly the same.

Here's the problem: It's the religion itself that is at odds with western concepts of freedom. Someone who adheres to the teachings of the Qu'ran does not WANT freedom like that. They are taught that it's corrupting to their soul, and sinful to do anything but live ones life for God/Allah.

Islam literally translates as "Submission" in Arabic. It is absolutely at odds with the western concepts of self-determination upon which our ideas of 'freedom' are built.

Numerous clerics and imams have come out and clearly stated "there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim".

Anjem Choudary has said it numerous times: [a moderate Muslim is not a Muslim, they are disobeying the Qu'ran]

“There is no such thing as a radical or moderate form of Islam,” he said. “You know, a woman is either pregnant or not pregnant. If you abide by Islam, and you follow what is in the Koran and the traditions of the prophet — then, quite frankly, you’d never find anything that I say which does not have Islamic basis.”

“So many Muslims would reject what you just said,” Stelter said, “and say that you are warping your religion for terrible purposes.”

“You’ll find that those people who differ from me believe in secularism, freedom — maybe they’re being paid by the government to say what they say,” Choudary replied.

“Now you’re just making up stuff!” an exasperated Stelter nearly shouted.

“No, that is not true all,” Choudary replied. “I’ve been propagating Islam, and I’ve met most of the leaders of the Muslim community, so I know what’s out there. If you go to Muslims who are actually practicing Islam…you’ll find that they say the exact same thing as me. Because I’m not calling for leadership for individuals, I’m calling for leadership for Islam.”

The conversation abruptly ended when Stelter said, “here’s what bothers me: when we were setting up for our interview here, the audio engineer asked you to count to ten to check the mic, and you started to do that — but then you said 9/11, 7/7, 3/11. Is this all some sort of joke to you?”

“You know,” Choudary said, “if you had a sense of humor, you would have laughed at that. It was just a soundcheck. You shouldn’t take any of these things that seriously. If you want to make it a big deal, then do so, but it makes you look much more shallow, really.”

“I have nothing more to say,” Stelter responded.

Trying to separate fundamentalism from Islam, is like separating Christ from Christianity. Fundamentalism is at the core of Islam. If that were not true, then why do these things keep happening over and over again? The very world we are living in is the proof against your thesis.

And yea, fundamental Christianity was just as bad, but it barely exists anymore. Christianity eventually became watered down and more tolerant, Islam has not done that yet. The phrase 'fundamental Islam' is redundant. Muslims see the West and it's vices as the result of not adhering to strict religious values, and they never want to become that. If anything, witnessing watered down Christianity has strengthened Muslim leaders determination to not let Islam become the same.

posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 11:47 PM

originally posted by: 8675309jenny
Numerous clerics and imams have come out and clearly stated "there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim".

Anjem Choudary has said it numerous times: [a moderate Muslim is not a Muslim, they are disobeying the Qu'ran]

You, sir, have hit the nail squarely on the head.

posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 12:38 AM

Let me first say I'm not a fan of CBN and Pat Robertson.

Click this link to skip to the important part: LINK

The widow of the CharlieHebdo chief has also come out saying there is no moderate Islam, and she's a former Muslim from Algeria.

Jeannette Bougrab, a junior minister with responsibility for youth, told Le Parisien newspaper that legislation based on Islamic sharia law “inevitably” imposed restrictions on rights and freedoms. Bougrab is of Algerian origin, whose father fought on the French colonial side during Algeria’s war of independence, and said she was speaking as “a French woman of Arab origin.”

“It’s very worrying,” she was quoted as saying. “I don’t know of any moderate Islam.”

edit on 11-1-2015 by 8675309jenny because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 01:00 AM
How do you want to infiltrate those scums? An infiltrated agent will probably have to kill a few innocents before he gets in the leading rings. And even so, they have a "family" like chain of command, probably isolating cells from each others to avoid information leaks. Ressources to fight terrosism will be endless so it's a good things. But then, who can you save and who will be sacrificed?

My bet is to force movement, pressuring some entropy into their main bases of operation.
Drop a kinetic bomb (Kinetic bombardement) in a desert
area and force those #ers to move from Yemen, Syria and Lybia. And tell the #ing russians to close their godam weapon factories.

posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 03:29 AM
a reply to: Hefficide

While I don't always agree with our states reasons for going to war, it's simply not true that extreme Islam is NOT a problem. These are people who are willing to take innocent civilians with them. And they mostly do it to other Muslims. The reason we don't attack Medina/Mecca is because it's not a war against Islam itself. It just so happens that our enemies happen to have a very extreme form of Islam. The point is to quelch the extremists, not inflame entire Muslim world.

posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 04:18 AM

originally posted by: 8675309jenny

originally posted by: GrantedBail
a reply to: Auricom

I don't believe a word you said. Not. A. One.

How is it that only Europe is being inconvenienced by these radicals that want Sharia law?? You are off your meds.

That is such a narrow and paranoid view.

You would think that the USA would be the victim of radicalism. Seeing as we are the ones that have fomented all the carnage in the Middle East and in Africa where those that adhere to Islamic religions have been the most tormented.

It is all bs. It is all false flag attacks. You cannot buy into to that scenario, while neglecting, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Somalia.


I have spent almost 2 years all around Europe, and the last time I was in Norway (Christmas 2014), we got to the bus station at 4:30am from the airport. As I unloaded our bags, 3 young middle eastern looking men approached and they were looking at my wife like a piece of meat.

I can be intimidating at times, and I turned, stood fully up as I reached into my bag like reaching for a weapon and looked straight at them with a very serious expression. They altered course slightly and walked past us mumbling as they darted looks at me.

Do NOT discount what you have not experienced. The Islamic problem THROUGHOUT Europe, is a very real problem!
edit on Sat Jan 10 2015 by DontTreadOnMe because: Community Announcement re: Decorum

You are VERY right!. I have seen my country slowly sliding down the last 30 years.
Its a real problem, and there is no current solution for it.
I prefer to remove them all, but that of course wont work.
To see their modus operandi see the link I posted earlier in this thread.
And, there is no moderate Islam, only a active and a sleeping one.

posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 07:24 AM

So I ask you again. If we are at war with extreme Islam, then why do Mecca and Medina still stand? Why do we still ally ourselves and sell arms to Saudi Arabia?

Oil. The Chess masters don't care about religious persuasion. They use it incite people by dividing them against each other. What better dividing line than Holy War?

But imagine if those two sites were nuked for some reason? A billion people would be radicalized in an instant.

posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 08:27 AM

originally posted by: Hefficide

I agree 10% with the thought process that Saudi and Mecca should be leveled. They are the heart of the beast.

As far as brainwashing. I submit that muslims themselves are the victims of brainwashing by a cult masquerading as a religion. I also submit that YOU are also brainwashed. If you believe that they are no harm at all, and we are being diverted away from something else, you are truly brainwashed.

I have read the Q'uran. I worked for a muslim owned company for almost 5 years. I worked with muslims from Saudi, Senegal, Yemen, Eritrea, Sudan, Egypt, even an American convert. They ALL believed as the people in the video posted after your post do. ALL of them. I pretended to be indifferent to them, I asked a lot of questions, listened to them talking to each other. (Since they were from different countries, English was a common language to them, so they couldn't hide what they said to each other, unless they thought I wasn't around) and in the end you know how they are. They will lie to your face, and turn around and talk behind you to another muslim and talk about you like you are no better than cattle. One time, I heard one say "I would kill him where he stands, if I were back home" (speaking of a clearly gay delivery driver)

They have zero respect for western laws. They all put their religion above everything else. Family, laws, freedom, anything. I feel sorry for people like you who try to defend them, they will kill you just as fast as they would me. Unless you roll over, pay the infidel tax and be no better than a slave, or convert and join their cult.

So, you can say we are the brainwashed ones all you want. I however know better, and made sure I found out about them and their true beliefs. I opened my eyes, and shook off the notion that islam is just misunderstood.

edit on 11-1-2015 by poncho1982 because: typo

posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 09:08 AM
I agree with the OP completely, but ore than agree, the post also stays with and explains the facts.

Simply examine the data. To those that speak about our enemies, who supposedly want to kill us, remember that they believe they are acting in self-defence (however much American propaganda has devoted itself to making you believe otherwise). They are attempting to defend their culture and identity in the face of war and terror, and are subject to rhetoric by their governments that is flipped but otherwise identical to what the west hears. We are being encouraged by the powers that be to dehumanize and demonize the 'Other', so that we clash in violence. The acts of violence and war profit corporate expansion and greed, and profit the powers of central governments.

To take it one step further, and to get all NWO on everyone, realize that we all live in a fascist state now, all of us. We are controlled and manipulated by the false gods of Church, Government, and Corporation - all for their material benefit. we are manipulated so that they posion our food and then sell us medicine, we are manipulated into donating money to charities that pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to their leaders, we are manipulated into paying giving up our hard-earned gains so that the government can tell us what and who is safe. We are guided and controlled. For Islam, we are the Great Satan, for Western Christianity, the Islamic states are part of an Axis of Evil.

Wake up everyone, there is no enemy but the men who would make you wear chains.

posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 09:13 AM
You OP, and others who agree with, you will carry the weight of guilt for pain and suffering of your daughters, sons , grandchildren living in Islam and sharia dominant world.You will be guilty for not recognising the real problem on time.Values and practicising Islam is fundamentally opposed to FREEDOM you often mention and love so much.I have recognise the threat and silent invasion and i will fight.My consciousness is clear.

posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 09:47 AM
a reply to: Hefficide

Excellent OP!

And in line with that thoughtful post, I'd like to add a little historical perspective. In the last century, the joke was that even if you were a terrorist or criminal or bomber, and wanted to immigrate, France would take you in. They accepted anyone and everyone who wanted to leave their residential countries.

Lovely gesture, and the French quickly puffed-up in short-sighted, arrogant pride at their generosity. But did they really dig in to help this immigrant-population? Did they offer language classes, job training, culture-understanding classes? Did they work to find these immigrants jobs, and help them fit into society?

Did the media reach out to help the French understand this new culture, and write articles about Muslim religious holidays and outstanding citizens? Did the French government fund tiny Muslim-community newspapers to help teach the immigrants about their host country and people?

HELL NO! They shoveled them off into concrete boxes of apartments in Parisian suburbs - and ignored them. How could there NOT have been a slow boil among all the unemployed stuffed into this concrete-box housing that basically told the Muslim immigrants how little the French really cared about them - beyond stupidly congratulating themselves for "saving" those immigrants? And then they let the Charlie Hebdos load insult on top of injury, and reveal the true depth of the French hatred and total disrespect of this Muslim immigrant population.

The current Muslim population sidetracked-and-ignored in these insulting concrete-boxes, is long past their original grandparents and parents who preached patience and gratitude. Uneven temperaments and youthful rage at "condoned ignorance" and "no jobs" were obviously going to reach the boiling point sooner than later. It was just a matter of picking the right target. -enclave.html
edit on 11-1-2015 by MKMoniker because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 11:08 AM

originally posted by: Hefficide

But I can tell you who is. Governments and Corporations. Governments that are gaining more and more control over once free peoples and Corporations who are making record profits from the endless war and ability to exploit formerly off-limits resources and markets.

Bombing for peace my ass. We are bombing for Wal Marts and the public acceptance of a surveillance state.

We have been divided by rhetoric, manipulation, and lies - on both sides - and our house is falling.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Awesome OP.

But may I propose a question; what is the best way to combat the forces that call the plays? We have already seen that adding to the ideological and physical fight are two of the most destructive ways and have produced nothing but more violence and more disdain on each side. Would it be best just to drop the whole situation entirely, as to not 'feed the flames' of violence by governments, media, and other parties? Sort of a boycott of this 'terror system' (media, government, terror groups, etc.) in a way that is non-violent and non-judgmental. Any responses would be much obliged, as I am just as confused on how to handle this in a careful fashion as anyone else. Thank you.

posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 11:26 AM
a reply to: MKMoniker

Does France have a policy to find jobs and educate every immigrant? Perhaps by taking them in and just 'shoveling them aside' is their way of letting the new immigrants feel as though they're just like other normal immigrants to any other country. Take for example the immigrant flood in the U.S. where the Irish, Italians, Pollocks, Germans, etc. all flooded America to escape whatever hardships they faced in their country.

Did the U.S. help them? Hell no. They shoveled them into tenements (somewhat similar to what we would call a ghetto) and they were among some of the most neglected people in the country at the time. The Irish and Italians both facing major institutionalized racism at this point in American history. But they took it like champs and arose from that situation and are some of the most proud people in the country.

The mafia was already a tradition in the Italian home country, as were catholic terror groups and crime groups in Ireland. Terror didn't necessarily breed in those concrete boxes, people would have had the idea long before. Especially when the act was motivated by religion and not really against the French government.

What Im trying to say here is that maybe this is a normal thing for immigrants to face hardship, and maybe its not France's fault for not giving them all sorts of benefits right off the bat. I don't want to make it sound like I am intolerant of the plight of Muslim immigrants, but this seems to be a fairly normal trend.

Love and respect.

posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 12:17 PM

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Hefficide

Awesome Heff!

Saudi is really they people calling the shots and no one ever wants to talk about them and how much they fuel this.

Maybe the 23 pages missing from the 9/11 report would fill in the blanks for us. We know that most of the hijackers were Saudi nationals - who were incidentally "fast tracked" visas through the US embassy in Jeddah, SA at the behest of the CIA. We also know that money for the hijackers was traced back to Saudi sources.

In the end though it is not countries we are at war with, it is fundamentalist religion. Those who take literally from the sacred books of religion and put in to action those edicts thought excessive by the moderates of the same. Christian fundamentalism was responsible for electing Reagan and allowing him to fund the contras - and by extension creating the Iran-Contra scandal of trading drugs for money to buy weapons to trade for hostages.

Savvy politicians court these groups when it's too their advantage and renounce them when it's not. Fact remains however nothing is ever done by Western governments to curtail these groups lest they be accused of interfering with religious practices. I think that is the very point of the spear that not only needs sharpening but needs to be used as well. It's time to shut down the Imams and preachers of hate who openly advocate violence. It's no different than calling for insurrection and should not be tolerated.

People know that I am very pro - free speech and loathe the idea of having to curtail it for any reason. Yet we still do not allow people to yell "fire" in a theater and for the same reasons - it's very dangerous.

posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 12:39 PM
a reply to: twhite93

Thanks for your quite rational and moderate reply.

I too am the product of immigrant grandparents, cashing everything out to cross the Atlantic and start a new life. But what you need to remember, is that the Ellis Island immigrant crowd were mostly Christian and spoke the "romance languages" that used the same alphabet as English. So they learned English faster with the same alphabet. Plus, the Irish were no strangers to the British, just as the French were no strangers to the Germans or Italians.

They brought their prejudices with them (like the Polish jokes), but they mingled with cultures they were already familiar with, so there was a subconscious "comfort factor" to live across the street from an Irish family and shop at an Italian grocery story.

For the Chinese immigrants in the last few centuries, who mostly ended up on the West Coast, they faced the same problems of different and misunderstood religion(s) (it's still the same Supreme God, remember?), "alien" cultures and languages, and were horribly exploited. There were no gov. programs to help them "blend in". But this new land was growing and expanding, and there was plenty of back-breaking work on the railroads - and Chinese whores and opium dens in their urban "ghettos."

But they pushed their children hard to go to school and then college, and that "dream" fed many a hard-working/exploited Chinese parent. Even if they were just acting out the curiously Asian idea of children-who-blend-in-and-find-success so that they could take care of aged Mom and Dad, pushing education was the best way for the next generation to learn how to blend in and succeed in the U.S. - while still retaining their Chinese culture and religions.

But my point was, that if modern countries want to accept immigrants - especially from exotic and quite different cultures - you don't just dump them an a concrete ghetto and walk away. Decades of ingrained mistreatment, unemployment and barely concealed hatred from the native population, are going to turn young immigrants into "haters" and terrorists. They figure they have nothing to lose, but everything to gain by going out in a "blaze of glory" that just MAY force the natives to re-examine their deplorable immigration policies - and prejudices.

To see hatreds and prejudices just become more hardened, as expressed in this thread, is both sad and horrific.
edit on 11-1-2015 by MKMoniker because: (no reason given)

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