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Want to Protect the Conspiracy Theorist Community? Start (Loudly) Denying Ignorance and Lunacy.

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posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 02:39 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I've contemplated creating this thread several times... and in the aftermath of the Paris attacks I think now is finally the time to post it.

The CT community, presumably a group which every member of ATS considers themselves a part of (or else why would you be here?), is sure a diverse group of folks. We've got UFO enthusiasts, NWO watchdogs, secret government program whistleblowers and researchers, chemtrail believers and debunkers, government malfeasance accusers, war on terror supporters and war on terror despisers... we got it all and all of it has got us, if you will. The one constant is that nobody here is into every topic, but chances are, if there's even one single CT topic that you have an interest in, you can educate yourself about it on ATS. The most beautiful part of that education is often found in sharing what you've learned, especially with somebody who isn't at all into the whole conspiracy stuff. A lot of us live for that moment when we show a loved one or friend an awesome ATS thread and watch as they gain intensity, reading through it, only to bubble over with excited questions or deeply pondered concerns regarding the shared topic. Guess what? Everytime that happens, we've just welcomed a brand new individual into the fold of "Conspiracy Enthusiasts." They may still retain many of their prior prejudices and knee-jerk negativity towards "Conspiracy nuts," at least for the first few readings of topics... but eventually that tiny seedling of speculative goodness will grow, and other seedling will take root as that new member of our shared interest community starts to delve into some of the other solid gold topics that our community has built its foundation upon. Before long, VOILA! an open mind has been nurtured and an unquenchable thirst for knowledge has begun.

...except for those times when there's a topic that has gone off the rails of logic and reality and has degraded into embarrassing drivel. Such has been the case the past few years in regards to both terror attacks and high media profile mass shooting incidents. I guarantee you this, if you show a person unfamiliar with the real grist of the CT mill a CT topic that revolves around the concept of "Sandy Hook victims were all actors", "The Charlie Paris shooting was staged with actors," "There were no planes on 9/11," etc., you've just CEMENTED the ideology of "Conspiracy nuts" in that person's head. The damage done by those type of ridiculous fringe wild accusations impacts every single person in our community in the most negative way possible: guilt by association and guilt by silence equaling acceptance. In much the same way as attending a rally where the speakers are Klansmen or deciding to have a circle of friends that includes gang members will get you labeled as a racist or a gangbanger by all elements of society, being complicit in the earnest discussion and consideration of the plainly asinine will do the entirety of our community zero favors.

Ultimately I believe many of us like to consider ourselves scientists, certainly scientists in the purest sense of the word because science is all about discovery and organization of knowledge. One thing any scientist will tell you is that not everything warrants testing or experimentation because you first have to ask the question you seek to answer, then you formulate a hypothesis based on what is known. THIS is where many of these fringe theories falter the most. It is one thing to formulate a question "Is it possible that these victims were just actors?" and then present a hypothesis whereby you attempt to gather the foundation for an answer to that question... it is quite another thing to bypass the question and hypothesis entirely and post "Those were absolutely actors and if you disagree with me you're obviously brainwashed by TPTB. Baaaa! Baaaaa!" This tactic is not only offputting to potential new CT explorers, it also reinforces the prevailing attitude among many that we're all nutcases... In other words, unless we as CONSPIRACY THEORISTS are willing to point at the grotesquely ridiculous and impossibly asinine and say "No! That fringe is not representative of our overall open minds and willingness to consider the improbable while digging deeper." Well, we all are left standing around looking like asses and every negative, insulting barb the mainstream casts at us looks to be well placed in the eyes of the rest of the world.

Remember, the Open mind and never ending curiosity of every single Conspiracy Theorist on ATS and elsewhere DOES NOT mean that we have to blindly accept, consider, or even tolerate every hypothesis or theory that is thrown in front of us. Sometimes it is very prudent and warranted to look upon a claim with the same level of disdain and spite as most of us would view, say, known propaganda eminating from an agenda-driven government source or a multinational corporation's ass-covering claims of product safety in the wake of a number of illnesses brought about by said product.

/rant


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.




posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 02:54 AM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

The Conspiracy Community needs to sort its Public Relations out and fast.

It's getting embarrassing.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 02:59 AM
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a reply to: LiveForever8

Don't worry, OP, full system collapse is imminent & we will be able to stand among the fire & brimstone, cackling maniacally, screaming at the top of our lungs,

"I TOLD YOU SO!"
edit on 9-1-2015 by Eunuchorn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 03:04 AM
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originally posted by: Eunuchorn
Don't worry, OP, full system collapse is imminent & we will be able to stand among the fire & brimstone, cackling maniacally, screaming at the top of our lungs,

"I TOLD YOU SO!"


And that's the embarrassing part.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 03:18 AM
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Everything is under control.
My dog told me so.
Relax and watch it go.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 03:26 AM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

Your OP is very agreeable to my own sentiments regarding the repair and reputation of conspiracy theorists. Specifically ATS for me has always been a community that has helped develop critical thinking skills.


+1 more 
posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 03:27 AM
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Rarely do I read a thread and think "I wish I'd have thought of and written those words". THIS is one of those moments when that is exactly what I feel. Kudos for saying what many of us have been holding in for the past year and a half. An angry feeling born of the fact that people are screaming "false flag" even as the events are still happening. Then the plethora of YouTube videos pop-up with irrational associations and conformation bias in full swing - and it detracts from everything we try to strive for.

And I'll add this: Damn the TV networks for being in such a rush to get the "scoop" that they tend to air unverified rumors without fact checking. By the time they retract or update? Well the YouTubers have already taped and documented this as "proof" of something nefarious when the only thing it does prove is that reporters should have more judgment than they currently do.

Connecting dots is a fun game, but it's only a game. Connect events requires more than just hyperbole, half baked theories and a misunderstanding of reality.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 03:59 AM
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a reply to: LiveForever8

One wonders, on the presumption that this was a false flat though, if it is taking the headlines to avert our eyes away from something else, like the fall in the price of oil etc.

However I do think we should be turning the word conspirator onto the real conspirators, eg those in government and power, who want to pull the wool over the public's eyes, e.g. its them who are the conspirators, we are those bright little things that catch them out conspiring against us all - the great publics of the world.

We are the Watchers! Ta Da



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 04:15 AM
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Does anyone tell other people they know they visit this site? I don't because of the reasons in the OP.
Sometimes I cringe and think Oh no not again.
On the topic in question it was how many hours before the first thread popped up? 2 or three...
I'm all for looking at the evidence but at least let all the evidence come to light before throwing accusations of false flags around.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 04:17 AM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6
whoah hang on a second, how can you tell people to keep an open mind when you just put researchers of 9/11 and SH in the same breath as klansmen and gangbangers.
You have totaly set about to discredit any future attempts by anybody engaged in these areas to post anything and alienate them from the site, because its bad for marketing.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 04:24 AM
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a reply to: PLAYERONE01

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

9/11 has an entire dedicated forum for discussion of the event, and has for years. As for SH? The site tried, several times, to allow open discussion on the topic but it always devolved into armchair detectives posting the personal contact information about the victims families or people who were on site.

It got so bad that the Sandy Hook police actually issued a plea for Internet people to stop harrassing the families of the victims.

Imagine that your child just got murdered in cold blood and your phone kept ringing off of the hook with strangers insisting that you were an actor and that your dead child never really existed? Think that might eat at your heart and soul a bit?

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


I hate when I need to use those tags...



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 04:35 AM
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There's being a critical mind, a skeptic, a searcher of truth (which many people are without labeling themselves conspiracy theorists), and then there's delving into the CT world.


The CT world is a mess, because it's where everyone who is seen as "not serious enough" for mainstream skeptics will gather. You have people genuinely trying to make sense of extraordinary experiences (mystical experience, alien abduction, UFO sighting), people who are interested in these subjects but never experienced it themselves, people who have issues with the current hierarchies and power structures, religious fundamentalists who see everything they don't understand as demonic, etc, etc, etc...


I've frequented this crowd for more than 15 years now. It started as curiosity because I was a hardcore scientist but wanted to see the other side of the coin, to see if everything paranormal is really evading any attempt at being repeated and proven. I started to frequent CT boards and read about paranormal subjects. A lot.


I learned much, but it also lead me to dark places. It made me have a psychotic break, to experience schizophrenia and paranoia. It made me realize that a lot of other CT/paranormal searchers also experience this. Many actually being currently undiagnosed or unmedicated paranoid or schizophrenics.

It made me discover that the boundaries between paranormal experiences like mystical experiences/alien abductions/spiritual emergency, and psychosis are very thin, even non-existing. The main difference being how you approach and integrate your experience, and how you learn from it.




I like this site because it allows me to read some great insights from great minds.


I also hate this site because it's an echo chamber for all the paranoids and the schizophrenics (or just the hateful) to spew their madness and being comforted to see that they aren't the only ones to think like that; so it's not possible they could be crazy or just plain wrong.



I'm glad I explored these strange shores of the paranormal and hidden world because it made me discover a new strength and a new faith within. It probably wasn't necessary to go that deep for that but it's my story.

I also regret I spent so much time isolating from the world, like a hermit, because I wouldn't trust it nor my brothers as much as before. It made me more bitter and cynical. I'm not sure I took the safest nor the best way to become who I am today, and I'm damn sure it made me miss a lot of joy and time with my friends.



I wish there was a big flashing sign atop ATS banner:

"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"

Abandon all hope, ye who enter here



The way the conspiracy world is depicted here is too romantic, too out of line with the reality of the people frequenting it. I know the motto is deny ignorance, and yet it's probably one of the worst place on the net to actually learn about truths, because the hidden gems of truth you can find here are lost in seas of BS.

I'm not saying it's all bad, I'm not saying I hate this place (I'm still here), I just wish when I was younger and started my quest for truth on places like here, older and more experienced people warned me and told me "nothing is like it seems here, don't trust anything you read, make up your own mind. Always verify any information by yourself, don't be lazy and think a link to another site is a valid crosschecking. Never forget these places are full of crazy people and they are certain that what they believe is actually objectively real, and not simply a subjective belief or a plain delusion".


I know it sounds condescending and all, but seriously, the mental health and critical mind are too precious to be wasted just because we want so hard for the world to be magical; just because reality seems too boring to us. Reality isn't boring at all for those who take the time to find the real magic in it.



Welcome to ATS



because when you see the world through the eyes of a conspiracy theorists, there is no more room for hope.

If you are looking for beauty, go out in the world.
If you are looking for thrill, come in.
But if you are looking for truth, leave this place and search inside yourself.
edit on 9-1-2015 by JUhrman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 04:36 AM
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originally posted by: boymonkey74
Does anyone tell other people they know they visit this site? I don't because of the reasons in the OP.


Ditto

2nd line



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 04:54 AM
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a reply to: Hefficide

I know of the 9/11 forum and the trials and tribulations of the SH days, but the fact remains that that trying to sway the majority's opinion by implying that the people here that are engaged in these areas are akin to the KKK or gangsters so they can be segregated out of this community is nefarious to say the least, especialy when it is so easily to read between the lines that it is market driven.



Guess what? Everytime that happens, we've just welcomed a brand new individual into the fold of "Conspiracy Enthusiasts.


As for the last paragraph I find that to be completely asinine, while I have pointed out what some may call the possible beginning of an agenda.
I agree public emotions were high around the time of SH and people wanted answers but are you claiming that members of ATS engaged in harrasment tacticts of SH family's.
And by the way Heff in my line of work your scenarios wont touch the emotional sides.
Just to clarify before the sycophant hate tsunami hits me, i'm neither for nor against on SH and 9/11 i just feel that today it could be these guys and tomorrow it could be..well monsanto and GMO's more like chemtrail watchers but trying to sway by character assassination is in poor taste.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 05:02 AM
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a reply to: PLAYERONE01

I am saying that people harrassed the SH families. Whether or not they were ATS members I do not know. I do know that there was a great deal of personal contact information posted and removed during that period.

As for trying to touch your emotional sides? Not my intention at all. But you are capable of compassion, are you not?



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 05:27 AM
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originally posted by: PLAYERONE01
I know of the 9/11 forum and the trials and tribulations of the SH days, but the fact remains that that trying to sway the majority's opinion by implying that the people here that are engaged in these areas are akin to the KKK or gangsters so they can be segregated out of this community is nefarious to say the least, especialy when it is so easily to read between the lines that it is market driven.


Just for your info, this reads like your typical CT drivel. Talking about comparison with KKK and gangsters is exaggerated and wasn't necessary. I will not go as far as saying you are paranoid, but you do talk like you are personally attacked by Hefficide post, while it's obvious he is right in saying many people go overboard when discussing these topics.



Being critical also means having the courage to admit when people actually stop being just critical and start acting crazy-cray.
edit on 9-1-2015 by JUhrman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 05:33 AM
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It's a conspiracy site.

Let the threads run their course... opinions put forward by intelligent people like you should sway the readers. You don't need censorship.

You shouldn't tell people what to start threads about but you should go on their threads and put your opinion across to convince them and others it's drivel.

Place is going tits up.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 05:33 AM
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The problem I think, at least for me, is that we have entered some kind of dystopia era. When I watch MSM, I just can't believe what they say, because its almost always biased and/or incomplete when it is not just plain lies, and I think what you describe here in the conscious or unconscious will of 'people like us' to counterbalance the dominant mode of thinking. It may lead to paranoia, and I admit that myself I am sometimes guilty of being paranoid.

On the other hand Scientific Study Reveals Conspiracy Theorists The Most Sane Of All!



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 05:40 AM
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originally posted by: boymonkey74
Does anyone tell other people they know they visit this site? I don't because of the reasons in the OP.


Well, I for one do and it's also because of some of the reasons posted in the OP. You know, the one's that pointed out the critical thinking and rational discussions of what the uninitiated consider irrational topics.

If you're embarrassed by the lunatic fringe on this site, then you must not be very confident in your own abilities to articulate your opinions, and you must not be confident in the abilities of others to do the same. You sound convinced that anyone you tell will find and focus on the negatives only.

Besides, what I do and how I conduct myself in public is very mainstream. I'm level-headed, hardworking and successful in what I do for a living. I believe those attributes alone offset what is read here that is just flat-out embarrassing.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 05:44 AM
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a reply to: DeepImpactX

No it comes from experience...when I first found ATS I told many of my pals about it and they checked it out and many called me bat# crazy for believing all the conspiracies (I used to fall for them all) but as I delved deeper into ATS I came to the conclusion not everything is a conspiracy.



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