Pentagon Warns Germany over "Frivolous" Lawsuit

Abuse at ABU GHRAIB is a complete joke. Compare a terrorist with "panties" on his head with sawing off a human head in front of a video camera. You can't be serious. Polical Correctness has finally gone too far. Chirac and Saddam did much worse when the were in bed together. (eye bleeding from the image in my head)

Originally posted by DrHoracid


So whats your point. I am aware of the issue. How does that condem Rummy? or GW. Friendly fire happens........it wasn't Hidden!

It was, look up the report.
All members where told not to mention anything to save relations this is valid up till 2025. Yet the story did get out, its well documented.
My point is this is what happens when you go , "hey its ok they done lots of good lets not bother about it."

Originally posted by Langolier
Huh... yeah, god forbid we have ruthless man lead our wars against people would do us harm. We should win them over with hugs and kisses.

So exsactly how is iraq going to "harm" you?
Invade from the mexican border?

Historically Rumsfeld has been an outstandings worldclass weaponsalesman, he should have stayed a salesman and not one of the foreign policymakers because he is doing bad job....

Rumsfeld: Unreleased images 'cruel and inhuman'

We're not just talking about "lockerroom shenanigans" here...and if you do consider these lockerroom shenanigans you must be going to some pretty strange lockerrooms.

Have you ever served in the military or been incarcerated?

Just so you know, I am in no way a dove when it comes to our nation's defense. However, there are rules/laws our military members are called to abide by. And for good reason. In most cases, torture is hardly the most effective means of extracting information; it makes criminals of those who engage in it; and it places our fighting men and women at much greater risk of equal or greater brutality if caught. Oh yeah, and it's just plain abhorrent. The wise man/woman can get their intelligence in much smarter ways. The brutal acts that have been committed by agents of the US at Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib have given our nation an illegitimacy I thought I would never see. These are dark days for us on the world stage.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Have you ever served in the military or been incarcerated?

Just so you know, I am in no way a dove when it comes to our nation's defense. However, there are rules/laws our military members are called to abide by. And for good reason. In most cases, torture is hardly the most effective means of extracting information; it makes criminals of those who engage in it; and it places our fighting men and women at much greater risk of equal or greater brutality if caught. Oh yeah, and it's just plain abhorrent. The wise man/woman can get their intelligence in much smarter ways. The brutal acts that have been committed by agents of the US at Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib have given our nation an illegitimacy I thought I would never see. These are dark days for us on the world stage.

I have some experience here. Abu Ghraib is the poster boy for american "abuse" these days. The humiliation of Muslim men being paraded naked is very "taboo" to them. I get all that. But it does not compare to what the Iraqis' did to our guys in Gulf 1. Remember?

[edit on 14-12-2004 by DrHoracid]

Originally posted by DrHoracid

I have some experience here. Abu Ghraib is the poster boy for american "abuse" these days. The humiliation of Muslim men being paraded naked is very "taboo" to them. I get all that. But it does not compare to what the Iraqis' did to our guys in Gulf 1. Remember?

[edit on 14-12-2004 by DrHoracid]

Oh and i suppose the tactics in korea and vietnam are just as humane.
Thats US tactics, hell man my country is just as bad i mean with what did during the years of our empire.

[edit on 14-12-2004 by devilwasp]

Originally posted by DrHoracid
The humiliation of Muslim men being paraded naked is very "taboo" to them. I get all that. But it does not compare to what the Iraqis' did to our guys in Gulf 1. Remember?

[edit on 14-12-2004 by DrHoracid]

Here's the problem, Doc, the middle-east is a much different place from anything in the West or the East. We in the West always want to project our outlook/views/culture onto them. We do not place the same values on their views and culture as they do. It's a terrible, harmful disconnect. The humiliation of Muslim men that you mentioned, not to mention that of women and children also, is an abomination to them. In their culture, for example, a woman who is raped might herself be shamed, cast away from her family or killed (for honor). Until we Americans can get our heads around their culture, we're never gonna get anywhere with Iraq.

And yes, I remember well the Persian Gulf War and what went down there. I saw it first hand. And I also know that we were told explicitly to disobey any orders we believed were unlawful. Vietnam was still fresh in the minds of our leaders. They weren't about to let us go back to those bad old days.

Originally posted by DrHoracid

I have some experience here. Abu Ghraib is the poster boy for american "abuse" these days. The humiliation of Muslim men being paraded naked is very "taboo" to them. I get all that. But it does not compare to what the Iraqis' did to our guys in Gulf 1. Remember?

[edit on 14-12-2004 by DrHoracid]

I don't regard raping someone with a chemical light or a broomstick "as abuse". Neither when a MP forced a female detainee to have sex with him.

CBSnews
...
k. A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee; ...
g. Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick...
cbsnews.cbsig.net...

You are gullible if you think that the photographes that have been witheld for us, are "tamer" than what we can see today on the internet about Abu Ghraib.

Blobber

[edit on 14-12-2004 by Blobber]

Originally posted by Blobber


I don't regard raping someone with a chemical light or a broomstick "as abuse". Neither when a MP forced a female detainee to have sex with him.

Are you serious?

Sorry, I can't accept anything from CBS. The whole fake GW papers thing. Believe what you wish. It is sad...but your right.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by Blobber


I don't regard raping someone with a chemical light or a broomstick "as abuse". Neither when a MP forced a female detainee to have sex with him.

Are you serious?

Aye, I regard it as torture.

Blobber

Nothing any of the network "news" stations puts out is worth a flying f... It's all government-approved propaganda. It's a sad day when the John Stewart Show is more informative.

Originally posted by Blobber


Aye, I regard it as torture.

Blobber

Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying.

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Sorry, I can't accept anything from CBS. The whole fake GW papers thing. Believe what you wish. It is sad...but your right.

You can find those excerpts on any other news networks, just do a search on the Taguba report.

To clear it up, I don't regard those incidents as "abuse", I regard them as torture.

Blobber

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Nothing any of the network "news" stations puts out is worth a flying f... It's all government-approved propaganda. It's a sad day when the John Stewart Show is more informative.

Well we are close to agreement. Anything the "news" stations puts out is "anti-government approved" propoganda. Who's John Stewart?

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Well we are close to agreement. Anything the "news" stations puts out is "anti-government approved" propoganda. Who's John Stewart?

Well Amnesty International is not a news network

web.amnesty.org...

Here you can find the findings of the Taguba report too.

Blobber

Originally posted by Blobber

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Well we are close to agreement. Anything the "news" stations puts out is "anti-government approved" propoganda. Who's John Stewart?

Well Amnesty International is not a news network

web.amnesty.org...

Here you can find the findings of the Taguba report too.

Blobber

Amnesty has a very poor track record of true also. They focus on the US and ignore places like Saudi.........

Originally posted by DrHoracid

Amnesty has a very poor track record of true also. They focus on the US and ignore places like Saudi.........

Funny the US military has an oposite kind of focus......