Quantum vacuum plasma thruster

originally posted by: Nochzwei

originally posted by: [post=18973369]stormbringer1701 NASA's image and they are paranoid about anything remotely fringey looking. you post about your junk yard salvaged ice maker repurposed as an antigravity device in your garage and you are gone.

Yes nasa is touchy about those things, as they say don't propose anythinh that defies the laws of physics.
Dunno, maybe national security issue of sorts

It's not a national security issue it's a credibility issue. NASA is a credible organization which is investigating some things which may lead to propulsion breakthroughs. It does not need tinfoil hat people spamming their alien abduction stories or theories about the "electric universe" etc.

for stormbringer: expect some serious news of a potential breakthrough no later than this fall (Sept/October). i can't give you a source though. just something i heard from a friend of a friend.

Has he said anything of note regarding frequency vs power input. ie: Is a certain frequency range (and harmonics thereof) more effective than others?

originally posted by: JadeStar


for stormbringer: expect some serious news of a potential breakthrough no later than this fall (Sept/October). i can't give you a source though. just something i heard from a friend of a friend.

Has he said anything of note regarding frequency vs power input. ie: Is a certain frequency range (and harmonics thereof) more effective than others?

He shows a frequency/power relation to warp effect relationship in a chart in his last post in the EM thread in the NSF. forum.nasaspaceflight.com...

and Dr White himself in other venues (conference presentations) said that using an AC waveform he can alter the resistance of space-time to deformation potentially eliminating the need for exotic mass. He has not explicitly spelled out a harmonic sweet spot but it may be implicit in between the lines sort of thing. NDAs are a bear.

next post from Mr March:

Dr. Rodal:

I missed your question last night on whether the warp-field interferometer cylindrical cavity had any dielectric inside of it. The answer is no it does not, except for the nanometers thick aluminum oxide coating that bare aluminum develops as soon as it is exposed to the oxygen in the air.

Next you asked about whether there where optical windows cut into the center of the cylindrical resonant cavity end caps or not. Well, yes there has to be optical window holes for the 633nm laser light to pass through the 7.23cm gap between the endplates of the aluminum cylindrical cavity. We also added two, three inch long, 0.50" OD by 0.25" (6.35mm) ID threaded aluminum tubes to the resonant cavity endplates, see attached picture, that function as two RF chokes that keep the 1.48 GHz RF from leaking into the lab area. So the laser light passes through these RF choke tubes and the cylindrical cavity where the peak ac E-field of 900kV/m is present along the entire 7.23 cm long laser path while in the resonant cavity and an exponentially reducing E-field in the RF chokes since these are cylindrical waveguides well into their cutoff mode since the RF wavelength at 1.48 GHz is 202.7mm.

BTW, we are going to add optical borosilicate telescope grade flat windows to the ends of the RF chokes when we get around to pulling a vacuum in this 1.48 GHz resonant cavity.

Next a clarification. We used a cylindrical cavity for the warp-field interferometer instead of a frustum shape because we didn't want to create a force with this unit, but instead we needed just a large densification of the Q-V along the active path length of the laser beam while it was traversing the resonant cavity's centerline volume. And this is the main difference between the Q-thruster and a warp-drive. In Dr. White's warp-field conjecture you first have to have an Q-Thruster derived acceleration vector to work on and then you engage the a toroidal warp-field around your accelerating vehicle that then multiples the initial Q-Thruster provided velocity vector by the selected warp-factor. Thus if you have an initial velocity of say 0.01c towards Alpha Centauri with a warp factor of 1,000, your effective velocity becomes 10c while the warp-drive is engaged.

Best, Paul M.

forum.nasaspaceflight.com...


forum.nasaspaceflight.com...

lately; in the last five years or so all sorts of interesting things that appear to challenge well known principles of physics. they don't of course violate the laws of physics. they challenge our interpretation of the laws by going into new regimes where the application of the laws is stretched in ways no one thought about before. the laws work. but it turns out they work in contorted ways. that diametric drive article is an example.

When it comes to physics its not just the fringe community that comes up with "urban legends" about the laws of physics.

"nothing can travel faster than the speed of light"

actually the math prohibits something with mass from accelerating through the speed of light. that is where there is a singularity. there is no singularity at 100.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 percent the speed of light. thus relativity does not prohibit FTL. It sure makes it difficult though.

Relativity does not prohibit space expanding contraction or moving around with the stuff that occupies it either. It does make it difficult though.

"Negative energy or negative mass is nowhere to be found in the real universe"

WRONG!!!! Bad Skeptic! Bad! no cookies for you!

"Stuff that violates principles of conservation are not permitted."

Thats not strictly true either. there are things that do violate conservation of one sort or another. Not many but there are some; and no one bats an eye in these limited cases.

Paul answers some questions about the test set up analysis and protocol:

Dr. Rodal:

QUESTION 1: Is it correct to assume that the assessment of the interferometer path-length-change measurements was accomplished by looking at the Power Spectral Density at an anomalous frequency high enough away from the pink noise area (system 1/f noise, quantum 1/f noise etc.), and so clearly distinguishable from system noise occurring at frequencies close to zero?

Yes it is for its around 0.660 seconds

QUESTION 2: If so, did the observed anomalous peak in the Power Spectral Density occur at a frequency in accordance with the time taken to energize and de-energize?

Yes, the on/off cycle time was around 1.5 seconds with some uncertainty due to Windows 7.0 time outs. Need a real time operating system (RTOto clear that problem, a RTOS system we don't have.

QUESTION 3: Did you plot three dimensional plots to look for power peak distribution distributions looking like ring-shaped circular-waves, corresponding to path length changes associated with such frequency (in question2) ?



Yes, see attached picture.

QUESTION 4: Did you conduct additional tests to confirm repeatibility of the measurements?

Yes Michael Rollins performed four additional 27,000 on/off data sets under the same 30W RF drive condition and obtained similar test results for all five cases. Mind you at 20W RF input there was only a hint of the space-time compression effect visible above the noise platform.

QUESTION 5: One would expect such ring-waves to display some statistical distribution, therefore using measures of central tendency like different truncated mean measures ( en.wikipedia.org... ) of the multidimensional power spectral density data may be particularly helpful in assessing the data (at least I have found so in assessing massive data for different problems that also involve 1/f noise)

I will point that out to Dr. White tomorrow.

QUESTION 6: Has NASA Eagleworks addressed the issue with air refraction raised in this paper by Lee and Cleaver from Baylor University?:

arxiv.org...

In particular, has NASA Eagleworks assessed the likelihood of the path-length-change measurements being the result of transient air heating ?

See Dr. White's preliminary assessment of that issue in the attached slide. Ultimately though we will be running the warp-field resonant cavity with a vacuum contained in its active volume to get rid of all possibilities of air heating problems.

Best, Paul M.

Paul march continues to answer questions and provide data and slides:

Dr. Rodal:

I'm attaching three slides that provide a bit more insight into the data sets that were taken over two weekends in the Warp-field interferometer tests. In the last you will note the temp rise of the resonant cavity over its first 70 minutes of on/off cycling. After determining this thermal rise time constant with our IR camera, we let the test article warm up for approximately one hour before starting our data acquisition of 27,000 to 30,000 ~1.5 second on/off cycles with each on/off cycle resulting in a CCD camera picture with a few examples shown in the attached FFTs of Imager slide. I've also appended a slide with the FFT noise present at the 2/3 second time point.

"If you did monitor the transient temperature, could you make that data/plots available to the public in this forum?"

As noted above we did not have a fast response thermocouple in the resonant cavity to monitor fast air temp changes, but the outside IR camera data indicates that the internal air temp probably stabilized around a mean aluminum case temperature of ~88F after about 90 minutes of on/off cycling operation. We also found that after the cylindrical aluminum cavity reached its running temp, we did not have to continue adjusting the cavity RF tuning to maintain its 30W of input power at 1.48 GHz.

BTW, the Eagleworks 6061 aluminum cylindrical cavity used in this experiment has machined 0.25" thick endplate walls and cylinder, so it has proven to be very stable once it has reached its run temp. I.e., there is over 2.5kg of thermal mass in this cavity design that reduces fast temp shifts.

Best, Paul M.

forum.nasaspaceflight.com...

forum.nasaspaceflight.com...

forum.nasaspaceflight.com...

This stuff is way over my head, but am I right in this assumption:

Warp fields are real?

We should patent this quickly and sell it to aliens. Those poor sods are still stuck on their silly little planet...

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
This stuff is way over my head, but am I right in this assumption:

Warp fields are real?

Dr Whites warp device created a pattern in the data that is indicative of a distortion of space time. the signal is distinguishable just above background noise. it is still kind of early to state definitively that an artificial warp was created and observed. something was observed as Dr White predicted in advance as per his theory. but science has to be slow and careful. and the evidence has to stand harsh scrutiny because the claim is extraordinary. all possible sources of error must be explored and eliminated by strong control or strong scientifically sound rebuttal.

i am not a scientist. it's perfectly alright for me to state that in my opinion that he has made a baby warp and that his claim is true. but I also know that it will be better to get stronger data before he starts seeking the nobel prize.

Double post

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
We should patent this quickly and sell it to aliens. Those poor sods are still stuck on their silly little planet...

actually; i'd rather be the alien's insurance agent. thier rates must be astronomical. they keep crashing them all over the place. evidently they are not safe drivers or thier tech is buggy.

a reply to: stormbringer1701

Star for you,1701! Keep 'em coming, please!
I don't think this one's been posted yet. SPR Ltd.'s website:
Emdrive - Home

Satellite Propulsion Research Ltd (SPR Ltd) a small UK based company, has demonstrated a remarkable new space propulsion technology. The company has successfully tested both an experimental thruster and a demonstrator engine which use patented microwave technology to convert electrical energy directly into thrust. No propellant is used in the conversion process. Thrust is produced by the amplification of the radiation pressure of an electromagnetic wave propagated through a resonant waveguide assembly.

a reply to: Kashai

Star and flag for you, Kashai! Thanks for creating this fascinating thread on such an interesting topic. This is a big deal if it pans out, and the exciting thing is that it appears to be panning out. As those NASA engineers are opining, the solar system will indeed be ours once this is developed, if not the stars. Here's to hoping it's sooner rather than later!

a reply to: engineercutout

Now that really is interesting. Very cool post there Cutout. I'll be looking into that as I think I can make it fit into some crazy ideas I have for propulsion used on certain crafts.

a reply to: engineercutout

You are more than welcome for me as well this opens our solar system to work that goes well beyond just exploration.

Personally I would also like to thank stormbringer1701 as his input has taken us to the present in relation to the state of the art.

At .4 newtons a QVPT thruster can send a 90 tone space craft to alpha proxima in 290 years. At 4 newtons it can accomplish the same task in 29 years according to projections of flight trajectories and times on Copernicus software.

In fact, NASA’s initial projections for a QVPT estimate that if a 100MW, 200mT (QVPT) could be engineered, the timeframe for transit between the Earth and Neptune would be just over 100 days.

Source

originally posted by: stormbringer1701

originally posted by: JadeStar


for stormbringer: expect some serious news of a potential breakthrough no later than this fall (Sept/October). i can't give you a source though. just something i heard from a friend of a friend.

Has he said anything of note regarding frequency vs power input. ie: Is a certain frequency range (and harmonics thereof) more effective than others?

He shows a frequency/power relation to warp effect relationship in a chart in his last post in the EM thread in the NSF. forum.nasaspaceflight.com...

Thanks. That was exactly what I was looking for.

and Dr White himself in other venues (conference presentations) said that using an AC waveform he can alter the resistance of space-time to deformation potentially eliminating the need for exotic mass. He has not explicitly spelled out a harmonic sweet spot but it may be implicit in between the lines sort of thing. NDAs are a bear.

Yep.