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Quantum vacuum plasma thruster

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posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 12:11 AM
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The quantum vacuum plasma thruster (or Q-thruster) is a theoretical deep-space thruster that uses the quantum vacuum fluctuations to propel a spacecraft. Proponents contend that interaction with 'quantum vacuum plasma' is the cause for thrust produced by an experimental engine (abbreviated to "Q-thruster") proposed for use in deep-space propulsion. Theoretical physicists Sean M. Carroll and John Baez (see below) have dismissed this because the quantum vacuum as it is currently understood is not a plasma and does not possess any plasma-like characteristics. A research team called Eagleworks Laboratories led by Harold G. White at the NASA Johnson Space Center claims that novel physics may be responsible for the thrust observed from prototypes. No such physics has ever been claimed to have been observed by any other collaboration of physicists or engineers. If it is correct that quantum vacuum fluctuations can support thrust sufficient to propel a spacecraft, a spacecraft fitted with such a thruster would not need to carry any propellant for its operation.

Using a torsion pendulum, White's team claims to have measured approximately 30–50 μN of thrust from a microwave cavity resonator designed by Guido Fetta in an attempt at propellant-less propulsion. Using the same measurement equipment, a non-zero force was also measured on a "null" resonator that was not designed to experience any such force, which Brady and colleagues suggest hints at "interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma".[1] If correct, this would essentially be a proof-of-concept for quantum vacuum plasma thrusters as well as a falsification of the conservation of momentum and energy, scientific laws currently favored on the basis of centuries of experimental evidence. All measurements were performed at atmospheric pressure, presumably in contact with air, and with no analysis of systematic errors, except for the use of an RF load without the resonant cavity interior as a control device.[2] The claims of Brady and colleagues have never been published in a peer reviewed journal, only as a conference paper.[3] A team of Chinese scientists have also claimed to have measured anomalous thrust arising from a similar device but have calculated anomalous thrust values on the order of 1000 times higher than those claimed by Brady and colleagues at power levels on the order of 100 times greater than that employed by Brady and colleagues.[4]

In 2013, the Eagleworks team also tested a device called the SFE Thruster or Serrano Field Effect Thruster built by Gravitec Inc. at the request of Boeing and DARPA. The Eagleworks team has theorized that this device is a Q-thruster.[5] A patent for this device was awarded on December 10, 2002 to the inventor, Mr. Hector Serrano. The patent states the device produces thrust through a preselected shaping of an electric field. The device consists of a set of circular dielectrics sandwiched between electrodes.[6] Gravitec Inc. alleges that in 2011 they tested the "asymmetrical capacitor" device in a high vacuum several times and have ruled out ion wind or electrostatic forces as an explanation for the thrust produced.[7] In February through June 2013, the Eagleworks team evaluated the SFE test article in and out of a Faraday Shield and at various vacuum conditions.[5] Thrust was observed in the ~1-20 N/kW range. The magnitude of the thrust scaled approximately with the cube of the input voltage (20–110 μN).[8] To date, Eagleworks has not published a peer reviewed paper detailing the results of this experiment.


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Before we dive into what exactly a QVPT is we first have to know a little about Quantum Mechanics, specifically Quantum Vacuum's. We all know that nature abhors a vacuum, and this statement is true on both the macro and micro level. In quantum mechanics a vacuum is filled with electromagnetic waves that come into existence, and then immediately disappear. While these electromagnetic waves are extraordinarily small, they do have many measurable effects. One of these effects is that as the electromagnetic waves appear and disappear they leave behind a measurable momentum.
So the question is, can NASA scientists transform this momentum to create propulsion? The answer, Maybe!

NASA scientists think that using the Casmir Force might be key in creating an abundance of electromagnetic fluctuation that could result in propulsion.

According to NASA, “The Casmir force is a QV phenomenon such that two flat plates placed in close proximity in the vacuum preclude the appearance of particles, whose wavelength is larger than the separation gap, and the resultant negative pressure between the two surfaces is more negative than the pressure outside the two surfaces, hence they experience an attractive force”



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Further Reading


This is literally something else and seriously worth checking out

Any thoughts?
edit on 9-1-2015 by Kashai because: Added content




posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 12:17 AM
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Wow. A vacuum thruster. My head just spun around.
Turn the suck up to 100!
edit on 9-1-2015 by skunkape23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 12:31 AM
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a reply to: skunkape23

PDF Files....



Eagleworks Laboratories: Advanced Propulsion Physics Research
Dr. Harold “Sonny” White, Paul March, Nehemiah Williams, William O’Neill NASA Johnson Space Center Houston, TX
ABSTRACT


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Nuclear and Emerging Technologies for Space (2012) 3082


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Anomalous Thrust Production from an RF Test Device
Measured on a Low-Thrust Torsion Pendulum
David A. Brady, Harold G. White, Paul March, James T. Lawrence, and Frank J. Davies
NASA Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center, Houston, Texas 77058


Source

Any thoughts?



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 12:33 AM
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the QVPT is part of a class of drive devices called EM thrusters. The QVPT is basically a woodward Mach effect thruster though White disagrees with Woodwards interpretation of how it works.

Never the less both Woodward and White believe that the QVPT or ME thruster can warp space in addition to providing quasi reactionless propulsion.

in addition to the QVPT NASA is also investigating the Cannae device and the Shawyer device which are more purely quasi reactionless thrusters.

all of these have anomolous thrust signals above sigma (although barely in most cases) and are under serious scrutiny in the peer review process with genuine scientists and engineers divided on whether the devices work as advertised or not.

i think the current score is slightly more think it is genuine rather than experimental error. at first it was skewed towards experimental error. as the analysis debate and arguments progressed that has evolved.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 12:52 AM
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oh and the second paragraph in the op is outdated and incorrect. the device designed for the null hypothesis initially did show force but not in the way required for nullification and was subsequently explained and eliminated. i know this because the NASA Advanced Concept forum threads on it has an engineer (Paul March) from White's team who posted extra information when asked and this was clarified there.
edit on 9-1-2015 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 12:56 AM
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a reply to: stormbringer1701

Can you provide a source?

To be clear I am clearly very interested in this subject and if not a source can you elaborate? for all concerned ????

edit on 9-1-2015 by Kashai because: Added content



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 01:04 AM
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originally posted by: Kashai
a reply to: stormbringer1701

Can you provide a source?

if I do it will lead to flooding of the forum in question by people who will post theories about how thier favorite booger is an alien abductor who faked the moon landing.

seriously the forum in question is not interested in the least in not just fringe stuff but anything that deviates just a few micrometers from science orthodoxy. because the admins and mods are charged with protecting NASA's image and credibility. Anyone who is to quote the admin even a hint "oogly moogly" (his words) gets banned and deleted from forum existence. and the EM thread is under threat of being removed as it is. just over fight between Woodward supporters and detractors or those that want to keep the thread on the subject of the recent EM drive experiments for shayer and Cannae devices.

if you need cites just go google NSF advanced concepts EM drive and you should be able to find the two most important threads. the information i provided came from there.


edit on 9-1-2015 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 01:21 AM
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a reply to: stormbringer1701




According to good scientific practice, an independent third party needed to replicate Shawyer's results. As Wired.co.uk reported, this happened last year when a Chinese team built its own EmDrive and confirmed that it produced 720 mN (about 72 grams) of thrust, enough for a practical satellite thruster. Such a thruster could be powered by solar electricity, eliminating the need for the supply of propellant that occupies up to half the launch mass of many satellites. The Chinese work attracted little attention; it seems that nobody in the West believed in it.


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The fundamentals seem intact..



A study conducted last year by NASA scientists has become the latest, and by far the highest profile, piece of evidence in favor of a seemingly impossible space thruster design that’s been evoking worldwide skepticism for some time now. Apparently annoyed by the persistent boosters of several similar but distinct designs, the space agency finally agreed to test an American-made variant called the Cannae Drive. “Alright!” they said. “We’ll test your stupid drive that won’t work.” Except it did work. Seemingly in contravention of the law of conservation of momentum, the team confirmed that the device produces thrust by using electricity, and nothing else. Supporters call them microwave thrusters or quantum vacuum plasma thrusters (QVPT), while most others use the phrase “anomalous thrust device.”


Source



A similar “microwave thruster” drive, proposed by British engineer Roger Shawyer, was tested last year by a Chinese team. Those results were largely dismissed. NASA’s results, though, seem to lend some credence to the idea that supposedly impossible “unbalanced forces” can actually result in momentum.

The NASA team stresses that the drive needs to be tested more thoroughly—but if it really works, it could be a major breakthrough for deep-space exploration. Because a drive like this could be powered solely by solar energy, satellites and space stations could stay on course and in orbit without having to lug around so much propellant.


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Nasa is a major player in space science, so when a team from the agency this week presents evidence that “impossible” microwave thrusters seem to work, something strange is definitely going on. Either the results are completely wrong, or Nasa has confirmed


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Any thoughts?



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 01:26 AM
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a reply to: stormbringer1701

Actually I have been in this Forum since the days Skeptic Overlord posted in this Forum Daily.



So it is OK to indulge me


Any thoughts?



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 01:29 AM
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yeah. where there is smoke there is fire. IMO the effect is genuine. it also appears to be scaleable. if it is then with the addition of a suitable power sources the solar system is ours. 50 something days to jupiter and 70 something days to saturn.

further if woodward or white are right about thier warp claims (whether woodward's ME wormhole conjecture or white's modified alcubierre metric) it may be more than just the solar system that is open to us some indeterminate time after that.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 01:33 AM
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originally posted by: Kashai
a reply to: stormbringer1701

Actually I have been in this Forum since the days Skeptic Overlord posted in this Forum Daily.



So it is OK to indulge me


Any thoughts?


no i meant the NASA forums. The head administrator is extremely serious about his duties to protect the integrity of NASA and that forum. if your post is even 1 percent whiff of fringe he'll get you. plus i do not want to see that thread shut down and lost. it is pages and pages of stuff you seek all in one consolidated thread. well two now. and even more if you go back into the older topics.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 01:37 AM
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originally posted by: Kashai
a reply to: stormbringer1701

Actually I have been in this Forum since the days Skeptic Overlord posted in this Forum Daily.



So it is OK to indulge me


Any thoughts?

I think the thrusters are genuine. too much of a convergence on the same general schematic with results that are comparable. i think they have been "peer reviewed" to hell and back whether officially or not. by people with the appropriate credentials.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 01:37 AM
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oh and yeah it could be powered by solar but not at the power levels to produce impressive thrust levels like White and the others want. for that you need megawatt class power sources. solar is fine for maneuvering satellites or station keeping for the ISS and unmanned slow boat to china space probes. but for human space flight you need the stuff white and shawyer were talking about.
edit on 9-1-2015 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 01:43 AM
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a reply to: stormbringer1701

My background formally, in relation to Western Society is in Psychology. However I was tutored in Physics by a very good friend who I helped with a very serious problem. So to be clear I tend to leave NASA alone, of course with exception of posting in this forum; which as I understand has members who are in NASA.


Again, I would like to hear from all concerned on this topic

Any thoughts?


edit on 9-1-2015 by Kashai because: Added content



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 02:00 AM
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you don't have to post. I would recommend against it at least at first. but there is nothing to stop you from reading the material at the NASA forums.

the only remaining thought i can think of is when White was being interviewed about his warp interferometry experiments there is a video in which he gives a tour of his lab. they walk past his QVPT. he names it but says words to the effect that it's further along than the warp experiment but that he cannot talk much about it because it is classified and he had signed an NDA. But he had provided some slides projecting space missions and flight times for a 4 newton QVPT at some conference he was a presenter at. there is classified information (probably even more impressive) about the QVPT which we will not see.
edit on 9-1-2015 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 02:11 AM
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a reply to: Kashai

I am still hooked up with vacuum cleaner, which sucks. But vacuum thruster - blows me away!



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 02:17 AM
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originally posted by: skunkape23
Wow. A vacuum thruster. My head just spun around.
Turn the suck up to 100!


But these ones go to 11.....



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 02:20 AM
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a reply to: stormbringer1701

Thanks friend




It’s always exciting when something seemingly impossible is validated by NASA—the smartest of the smart when it comes to cutting-edge aeronautical technology, right? Well, NASA scientists have just confirmed that an “impossible” technology is in fact possible.


Source



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 06:54 AM
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a reply to: Kashai

So fine.... They are working on a thruster effect which, evidently, is of minimal efficiency. That article gives pause to wonder about any large craft that process could effectively propel. Honestly, that concept is merely a new-fangled carryover from the invention of rockets a thousand years ago.

The mother of all space travelling machines that should be sought has nothing to do with it being primarily a thrust-powered craft of some sort. The heart of it will contain the ability to make the whole craft entirely without mass. Once you have the equipment to produce that effect on your vehicle, then the energy that it would take to push it at speed is trivial, if dependent upon the medium through which it travels. --Why do we never hear about grants or funding for this type of craft, but news of other, far more inefficient methods abound? You almost would think it is a conspiracy.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 07:55 AM
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a reply to: Kashai
You've got nothing more to say in your OP than "This is literally something else and seriously worth checking out"? That's a pretty minimal comment for the opening post of a thread.

There are two previous threads on this topic, one of which is yours, also with a minimal OP, but the other thread has some substantial comments made by the OP, though unfortunately he dragged Blacklight into it which is a scam, and I don't see any scam involved in the vacuum thrust research:

Quantum vacuum plasma thruster and Warp Drive.....

NASA Confirms New EM Thruster Violates Laws Of Conservation



originally posted by: Aliensun
The heart of it will contain the ability to make the whole craft entirely without mass. Once you have the equipment to produce that effect on your vehicle, then the energy that it would take to push it at speed is trivial, if dependent upon the medium through which it travels. --Why do we never hear about grants or funding for this type of craft, but news of other, far more inefficient methods abound? You almost would think it is a conspiracy.
It's not a conspiracy; you're not paying much attention, because it's already mentioned in this very thread where stormbringer mentions "when White was being interviewed about his warp interferometry experiments". In fact the same Dr White leads that research project also and he doesn't plan to stop at just bringing the mass to zero, the plan is to make it below zero, aka "negative mass" which is what the warp drive project he's working on requires. That is more "pie in the sky" type research than this vacuum thruster.

There are also threads about that warp drive (one of which I cited above where the OP chose to talk about both research projects of Dr White in the same thread), and an hour-long youtube video where Dr White explains the research, and the negative mass.
edit on 9-1-2015 by Arbitrageur because: clarification



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