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U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders reminds America ‘progressive’ means ‘socialist’

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posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 09:15 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

it's quite easy to beat up a strawman isn't it?

It's like you're just parroting what you heard on talk radio as you talk back and forth to yourself.
edit on 8-1-2015 by NonsensicalUserName because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 09:19 PM
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originally posted by: NonsensicalUserName
a reply to: Edumakated

it's quite easy to beat up a strawman isn't it?


Not as easy as poking holes in liberal logic.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 09:23 PM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: xuenchen

It has fallen to me to point this out before, but Americans who have never lived in a true socialism, have no idea what the word means, and should stop conflating what they have, or any of the things being proposed by their nations leaders and candidates for leadership, with socialism, lest they appear foolish to those who DO understand the terminology correctly.


What are you on about? We have our own brand that is fairly expensive but is often overlooked as socialism due to the strong economic and industrial situation it was born in. And over here it has all sorts of fancy names like "The Great Society" which was a massive socialistic undertaking but again its full measure was obscured in the day due to our otherwise strong economic base. The full measure, which is massive, is still obscured to this day by various artifices.

Anyway we like calling it a spade early on. No need to wait around till the thing is full tilt. We have only to look in your general direction for the previews.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 09:30 PM
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Show me a socialist government that hasn't killed millions of people or suppressed them.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 09:35 PM
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originally posted by: mugger
Show me a socialist government that hasn't killed millions of people or suppressed them.


The excuses are always the wrong people were in charge or not enough money was spent.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 09:46 PM
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a reply to: Logarock
it really began with "the new deal"... though there are some who say it began with the populist movement of the 1890's and 19-'aughts.

though ironically many who tend to follow marx don't see these as "socialist", but rather "capitalism with a few concessions".

basically it went like this; you do something about the masses of unemployed and impoverished, or the peasants are going to chop off your head. Thus welfare-capitalism became a way of keeping the masses satisfied enough not to revolt. FDR began to provide unions legitimacy as a bulwark against fascists and communists. this built a relationship between the democrats and the labor unions that would last up until the 1990's when clinton betrayed workers by sending their jobs to mexico.

after ww2, the US was the only power not bombed to hell and back, and thus experienced a commercial boom, there was never really a mass-need for universal healthcare, as there was work enough that strong unions could be tolerated.

This is the key difference between the US and europe, Europe had a welfare state instead of the same sorts of strong-labor-unions the US had.
the issue with the "great society" is tragic.

Johnson was trying to do too much at once.

Nixon was too paranoid for his own good.

both of them brought an end to the era of the "new-deal", through a combination of a controversial, mismanaged and expensive war, and scandals and cultural movements they did not adequately respond too.

both Johnson and Nixon were better than Kennedy IMO, they knew how to "pilot" the oval office.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 09:52 PM
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originally posted by: mugger
Show me a socialist government that hasn't killed millions of people or suppressed them.


Denmark
Finland
Netherlands
Canada
Sweden
Norway
Ireland
New Zealand
Belgium

All countries suppress their people to some degree.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 09:55 PM
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originally posted by: mugger
Show me a socialist government that hasn't killed millions of people or suppressed them.


Or one that isn't neck-deep in debt.

National Debt Clocks

They're all a bunch of bust outs.




posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 09:57 PM
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a reply to: mugger

I'm pretty damn sure that Sweden didn't execute millions of people, at least not in the timeframe you could refer to the country as "socialist".



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:13 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: mugger
Show me a socialist government that hasn't killed millions of people or suppressed them.


Denmark
Finland
Netherlands
Canada
Sweden
Norway
Ireland
New Zealand
Belgium

All countries suppress their people to some degree.


Those countries have socialist tendencies but hardly what I would call true socialism. They are basically capitalist countries with a lot of social welfare policies. I don't believe any of those countries really call themselves socialist states although they may be governed by socialist parties much like how we have the Democratic party.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:20 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

lovely reversal of "no true scotsman"

but, they're "relatively socialist" compared to the US.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:26 PM
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a reply to: NonsensicalUserName

Isn't the proper term for a Euro state a Social Democracy?

At the moment we've been sliding more toward fascism particularly with Obamacare.


edit on 8-1-2015 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 11:51 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

you're right, it's "social democracy", but for some reason social-democratic reforms get labeled "socialist" in the US.


and social-democracy is technically a very weird sort of branch of socialism, one that's focused on a very different route, and see's the "revolution" happen gradually, very slowly over time.

Fascism is the right term for where we're heading, I'm seeing Obama as a Hindenburg or (one of the final presidents of the weimar republic before the rise of hitler... weak and burdened by gridlock.
edit on 9-1-2015 by NonsensicalUserName because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 09:17 AM
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a reply to: xuenchen

Many thanks.

I always take anything Fux News and (people like yourself) spews out and invert it to see where I should be researching. Let's take a closer look. According to the prevailing propaganda, socialism is a dirty word and it's shameful, weak and immoral. If you are interested in reality, drop the dogma at the door. If you find yourself emotionally responsive to the word "socialism" you are programmed, go away and stop reading here. Read something that triggers your program.



What do progressives want now? Obviously, they want a Democratic victory in 2016—a goal for which some, but not all, of them are willing to swallow their reservations about Hillary Clinton. B

That is the biggest bunch of garbage I've read lately. Won't be reading the New Yorker any time soon.

Moving on.


“We have a corporate establishment whose greed is destroying the economy, a political establishment which is beholden to billionaires and a media establishment which largely ignores the major issues facing working families. We need a political revolution.”

OK, now I'm interested.



Are we prepared to take on the enormous economic and political power of the billionaire class or do we continue to slide into economic and political oligarchy?”

"We" is clearly not including the USG criminals and Fux News types. I believe "We" is a a growing majority though. You won't hear that on he xuenchen channel. The shadow government may need an operation to prevent this populist notion from taking root. Fux News operatives will be in the breech bailing water. They'll first try to shame you, then scare you then they will just try and confuse everyone.



By invoking the language of insurrection, Sanders was mimicking the tactics of right-wing Republicans, who are forever calling for a revolution in Washington.

total garbage again. No one mimicks the right wing conservatives. They scare, confuse or disgust just about everyone except the donors. Can't touch that with a pole.



“Financial institutions cannot be an island unto themselves, standing as huge profit centers outside of the real economy.… They are too powerful to be reformed. They must be broken up.”

Well he sees the problem. Just make sure the solution isn't worse that the problem it solves Bernie.



Sanders wrote, “We must end our disastrous trade policies (NAFTA, CAFTA, PNTR with China, etc.) which enable corporate America to shut down plants in this country and move to China and other low-wage countries.”

We have some history with NAFTA and see the TPP coming. The road to hell is paved with good intentions but corporations built the road to hell and government is the vehicle. At some point there may have been some good ideals but there is no idea or initiative good enough to resist the Fascist corruption of the US. This paradigm can't be saved Bernie.



The heart of Sanders’s program is an effort to tackle wage stagnation and promote higher-paying jobs. To this end, he wants to invest a lot more public money—up to a trillion dollars—in infrastructure, to raise the minimum wage, and to make it easier for unions to organize and negotiate collective-bargaining agreements. In addition, he would seek to close the gender gap in pay, spend more on education (he doesn’t say how much), close corporate tax loopholes, and provide federal financing for the formation of worker-run coöperatives.

Well Bernie, although I would love to have a beer with you sometime, I can't buy into the idea that the Fascists can reform themselves if just given more control over everything. He didn't say anything about the illegal surveillance state, the perpetual war machine and illegitimate injustice system. Even if he did, the MSM would self-sensor it. This hasn't restored my desire to participate in the US political charade and vote. It is cool that he's literally the sole member of Congress with the balls to say some of these things. That counts for something. Could make the primaries interesting.



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 07:00 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

The biggest socialist program in the world is the american welfare program.
You dont have to work the government gives a home food and money...i mean cash money .
And the best part is the more kids you have the more stuff you get yeahhhh welfare.



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 07:08 AM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Austerity is a disgusting policy...


Unfortunately is needed when goverment mismanagement has nearly bankrupted the country



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 07:26 AM
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originally posted by: sweets777
a reply to: intrptr

The biggest socialist program in the world is the american welfare program.
You dont have to work the government gives a home food and money...i mean cash money .
And the best part is the more kids you have the more stuff you get yeahhhh welfare.

Don't forget the biggest welfare act, bailing out the banks and other companies for hundreds of billions of dollars in 2008.

They weren't even poor. Thats some gimmick to mind meld people with.. Yah, the awful welfare system…



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 07:35 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

Oh i know that was beyond messed up then they stared writing themselves checks for billion dollar bonuses lol.
After years of record losses .....
But i watch people by drugs with the ohio food stamp card all the time its a close call for me hard to tell where im getting robbed from anymore .



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 07:44 AM
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a reply to: sweets777

And ive seen this welfare crap since i was 13 . Thats 22 yrs lol



posted on Jan, 10 2015 @ 08:16 AM
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a reply to: sweets777


But i watch people by drugs with the ohio food stamp card all the time its a close call for me hard to tell where I'm getting robbed from anymore .


The State is the one robbing you, not "welfare recipients". What they get is minuscule compared to the big bailout. Be watchful about what you hear in the mainstream about poor people stealing your tax dollars. The government is the one collecting the taxes from everyone and using that to wage endless aggressive war around the world, bail out corporation and banks and squander the rest. They are the ones out of control, not "poor people".

ETA: In fact, lots more poor people are the result of Washington's mis representation.
edit on 10-1-2015 by intrptr because: ETA:



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