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Freedom of Speech vs. Bullying: So, which is it?

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posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 05:57 PM
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originally posted by: Scaevola
a reply to: thesmokingman




Not really....I mean, I am sure these 3 men do not speak for the entire Muslim religion....


Yes, but I am sure these cartoons were not about the entire Muslim religion. They were always aimed at the extremists.

No, they were aimed at their God.




posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 05:58 PM
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originally posted by: thesmokingman

originally posted by: Scaevola
a reply to: thesmokingman




Not really....I mean, I am sure these 3 men do not speak for the entire Muslim religion....


Yes, but I am sure these cartoons were not about the entire Muslim religion. They were always aimed at the extremists.

No, they were aimed at their God.



I thought mohammad was a prophet not a God?



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 06:00 PM
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originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: thesmokingman

originally posted by: Scaevola
a reply to: thesmokingman




Not really....I mean, I am sure these 3 men do not speak for the entire Muslim religion....


Yes, but I am sure these cartoons were not about the entire Muslim religion. They were always aimed at the extremists.

No, they were aimed at their God.



I thought mohammad was a prophet not a God?

Ok, they were aimed at their prophet.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 06:00 PM
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a reply to: thesmokingman

I think they were usually about the violence and extremist points of view in name of their prophet.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 06:02 PM
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originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: kamatty
I belive freedom of speech and bulling are 2 differnet things, yes you are free to say what you like to anyone, if you choose to use your freedom of speech to make someones life hell you are a bully, a bully uses his freeedom of speech for hateful reasons.

I belive they are not the same but one is used by the other.



An instance >>>>

You are overweight. I could sugar coat it, but I come straight out

and say you're fat (because its a fact) You know its true, but you

still take offense. Would you consider I have been verbally bullying

OR exercising my right to freedom of speech?? There was no intent

just a statement of fact

Seems to me there's a very fine line..... mostly how the recepiant

takes it.


It's ALL how the recipient takes it.

Say "You're fat" to a room full of fat people. Some will be offended. Others will laugh. Some will be hurt. Some will be angry. Some will say, "I know! That's why I'm here."

How else could it be if many people can respond totally differently to the same words?

The words spoken aren't different. The reaction is different because to person hearing the words gave it a different meaning.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 06:04 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Krazysh0t

However, I find it very disturbing that you can have your entire life destroyed for holding a private opinion that is unpopular. How many of us at ATS would be similarly crucified in the court of public opinion and stand to lose everything?

Was there any evidence that his opinions caused him to treat his players or associates in an unfair manner in his business dealings? If not, then however unsavory, his opinions remained just that - his opinions. But it seems these days they are enough to get you fired. Look at the Mozilla CEO and now the Atlanta Fire Chief who have suffered similar fates for similar unpopular opinions. Did those opinions color how they handled their professional life? If there is no evidence of it, then there should be no repercussions for holding unpopular opinions, and any actions taken because of them is only bullying done by the public PC police to attempt to enforce "correct" thought on everyone.



Bad example. First, his entire life wasn't destroyed.

Second, he was part of an organization whose rules and standards he agreed to abide by.

He violated those standards and lost the team. Simple.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 06:06 PM
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a reply to: Jamie1

Nope
A container can only hold a certain amount of anything.
Then we get into dna and programming.
Some people should never be messed with.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 06:09 PM
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originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: Jamie1
Tyranny? It's called taking the higher road. What's wrong with you people sometimes? You know how many times I've had to keep my mouth shut and put my hands in my pocket for the bigger picture?

Real power is not executing your right but the ability choose not to execute your right That's where the power is. Not the other way around. Oh people, so much growing and learning to do. It's a shame


This isn't a thread about power, but since you brought it up....

There is NO power in allowing other people to control how you feel or how you react. If you give people the power to turn your emotional state from happy to angry simply because they called you a name, that's no power. It's giving up your power.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 06:31 PM
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a reply to: Jamie1

But did he break those rules? He was taped and had his private opinions splashed out in public. In short, the rules were broken for him by someone else who had every reason to damage him.

My husband talks about things that could be considered "embarrassing" to his company with me all the time. Same with me. If he tapes me (or I him), and one of us decides we want to damage the other personally, it is then OK to make their private opinions public? And they should be castigated for doing something they didn't actually do - namely airing their private opinions in a public, embarrassing manner?

See what I mean about lack of freedom of speech? Now I ought not even exercise my right to talk about what I think with my own husband. Never know when he might decide to embarrass me and destroy my livelihood because I'll suffer for it.


edit on 8-1-2015 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 06:37 PM
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a reply to: thesmokingman

I think in America's climate, what Hebdo did would be considered hate speech.

He attacked Christians and Jews too.

Honestly, maybe we need to put our big boy panties on and stop being so overly sensitive.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 06:49 PM
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a reply to: thesmokingman

One would think the world would have grown beyond the trivial, my take is, how can a purely developed spiritual person, truly find themselves trapped by trivial things in the material world, it is sad that cartoons and drawings will cost someone their life, 3 Abrahamic faiths in their origins have made images, or likeness of things in heaven to be forbidden, but it seems that all of them have different interpretations, different views of this.

Heresy was once met with being burned at the stake and also similar fates awaited the blasphemous in all of those religions, one must ask is why this is a problem in today's world, you bring up a good point, where is the line if someone is offended and the person doing the offending truly respects that ? is it a bully action to continue thumbing your nose, hmmmm I don't know, the free world is such a great place but we know that we have seen people that were outcasts or bullied have been capable of some very horrible acts in here in the West, I am not sure what to say but I believe in free speech, so I can't go as far to say that free speech that is offensive instantly translates into being a bully.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 07:06 PM
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a reply to: phinubian

I think part of the realization has to be internal and personal, too. Someone else's words and images only have as much power to hurt and offend as you give them. There are incredibly hurtful, offensive and heretical things said on this board about religion all the time. If I were the sort to take everything personally, I wouldn't be here. On the day it actually starts to get under my skin, I'm out. I am certainly not going to go crying to anyone that I'm being bullied. It's my issue; not anyone else's, not unless I can tell that someone is trying to target me specifically for some reason.

But I do think that this drive to tell everyone they have a "right" to not be offended is a backhanded way to curb freedom of speech and try to control thought. If no can speak, then no one can talk. And if no one can talk about a concept, then it doesn't exist. It's very 1984; they just haven't gotten around to newspeak yet where they just take out the words for the concepts they don't want anyone to be able to talk about.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 07:16 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

right, it sounds like charging a Sigil according what you have said, and when you think about it, any symbol can be given any power, good or bad that you choose to give it, and then used for your own purposes.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 07:32 PM
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a reply to: Jamie1

Chuckle: did you read what you said?

Everyone on ATS is angry. Making threads about the Muhammad challenge is angry. You're angry. Who has the power now? Still can't see it I suppose.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 07:57 PM
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originally posted by: thesmokingman

originally posted by: Scaevola
a reply to: thesmokingman




Not really....I mean, I am sure these 3 men do not speak for the entire Muslim religion....


Yes, but I am sure these cartoons were not about the entire Muslim religion. They were always aimed at the extremists.

No, they were aimed at their God.


So what? I"m sure God can handle it.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 07:59 PM
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originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: Jamie1

Chuckle: did you read what you said?

Everyone on ATS is angry. Making threads about the Muhammad challenge is angry. You're angry. Who has the power now? Still can't see it I suppose.


No, I didn't read what I said. I channeled it through my prophet.

Now you offend him. Prepare for the consequences.....


Sending love and hugs to you.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 08:07 PM
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a reply to: thesmokingman

Freedom of speech does not includes things that are already illegal like harassment or threats.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 08:08 PM
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a reply to: Jamie1

Great! How about a date?

But here's the thing, free speech is like walking a tight rope. You must understand this, you're a scientist after all. You know the consequences of talking out of turn.

I'll pick you up at 7



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 08:19 PM
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originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: kamatty

I belive freedom of speech and bulling are 2 differnet things, yes you are free to say what you like to anyone, if you choose to use your freedom of speech to make someones life hell you are a bully, a bully uses his freeedom of speech for hateful reasons.



I belive they are not the same but one is used by the other.






An instance >>>>



You are overweight. I could sugar coat it, but I come straight out



and say you're fat (because its a fact) You know its true, but you



still take offense. Would you consider I have been verbally bullying



OR exercising my right to freedom of speech?? There was no intent



just a statement of fact



Seems to me there's a very fine line..... mostly how the recepiant



takes it.



Well there is a fine line in other things too, how many have seen the guy in the office who can get away with outrageous sexual harrasement because its "just dave' but if the creepy sweaty guy does it the bloke is up on a sexual harrasement claim.

I have had to pull people at work because their communication style is offensive to some of the team.

You have a responsibility for what you say and how people may react to that. Recently a chap in England was arrested for tweeting a joke that was offensive to some people, a joke!

But you have choices to not be a victim too, just dont buy and read the comics/film.

There are millions of Muslims in France who probably know quite well what the Comic was priniting but chose not to read it and not to be offended.

So it cannot be bullying, because it isnt forced upon you, you have the choice to turn the other cheek. And seriously, if the thought of someone disliking your choice of religion and mocking it makes you so angry you want to kill or feel like you are being bullied, then IMO its that person that is the problem.

The comic was just an excuse for fanatical terrorists at some kind of justification.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 08:25 PM
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originally posted by: thesmokingman
You can say whatever you want, just be ready to accept the repercussions of said speech.


While I agree with this to a point, there is a rather wide disconnect between "Wow, this person is a deliberately offensive $%#, I won't support him in anyway and will encourage others to boycott his works!" and "I will kill you over a string of words you let loose in the world."

Killing someone over an insult is not a rational repercussion and no one should have any reason to fear death or violence for saying something.
edit on 8-1-2015 by framedragged because: (no reason given)




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