The Loss of Femininity in The USA

originally posted by: rickymouse
This thread does address a real problem. Overshooting rationality in correcting a problem. I am old enough to have seen the movement started and wondered why the women took it so far.

Why do you say "...why WOMEN took it so far". Society has taken it "so far" (in your words) because it was necessary for the survival of children and, I suspect, will be necessary for the survival of the species as a whole.

You wording implies that this is problem for women to solve. Every conflict has two parties both with parts they played creating the conflict in the first place.

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT EVERY MAN, I am speaking of general feeling among the women I know and have known throughout my life.

Women are tired of men making messes (wars) that women have to clean up after (take care of the wounded, feed straving children, finding the way forward. When the going gets truly tough the men pick up and leave - singly or collectively and the women have to pull the pieces back together as best as they can.

Again, I AM NOT DESCRIBING EVERY MAN.

I am single and plan to remain that way; however, I don't, in any area of my life, lack for male companionship. I have male friend that I go to concerts with, play music with, work with, argue with and eeek even have sex with. But there isn't a one that I would marry and some could make my life easy but it would come at too great a cost.

originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: Realtruth

I always preferred the company of men, and I think some have become emasculated by today's society, just my opinion, I really feel for them.

I didn't want to use that word, but since you brought it up "emasculated" is an understatement.

My next thread should be "The loss of nuggets"

Reach down between your legs... grab your nuggets... and say in your best Braveheart voice, "I AM A MAN!"

They're still there.... I think.

originally posted by: makemap
Now they got some. No longer do they act like proper women in the past. .

Really?? "..... proper women in the past....." Really??

originally posted by: FyreByrd

Women are tired of men making messes (wars) that women have to clean up after (take care of the wounded, feed straving children, finding the way forward. When the going gets truly tough the men pick up and leave - singly or collectively and the women have to pull the pieces back together as best as they can.

Not taking Rickymouse's side but there are many women that embrace male energies and create just as much chao's and destruction, even if it is just by their positions of power.

What we need to look at is the balance of male and female energies.

A single word, or gesture from a woman can start, or stop a war. Same goes for a man, but which energy do they embrace for the situation.

Sometimes a battle may be needed, but two many of them leaves a path of destruction.

Wow.

Someone needs to get laid.

originally posted by: Realtruth

Women like strong men physically, mentally, and emotionally.

How could you possibly know that? I'd even dispute the term strong in your context.

Do you mean strong like 'the wall of china is strong' imovable and inviolate - physically.

Mentally - does strong mean remaining resolute in your thoughts, ideals and principles?

Emotionally - strong - as in 'not showing emotions' or not letting emotions effect your thinking or actions.

The above types of strong fall towards the masculene end of the 'strong' spectrum.

What about the other wing of the spectrum, a feminine one where strong means flexible, changeable, and stamina like a mightly river.

Big unchanging Rock or everchanging River - what do you mean by strong? Or maybe a balance of the too as in the parable of the mighty bamboo - deeply rooted but always flexible.

And that balance needs to me INSIDE of each of us and not OUTSIDE on YOU.

for me the number one woman and standard of femininity Attorney General Crimea Natalia Poklonskaya youtu.be...

originally posted by: TheArrow
Wow.

Someone needs to get laid.

^my nomination for post of the day.

The term strong is subjective.

What woman or man wants the other half, if they so choose a relationship to be weak?

Of course not everyone is going to be strong, all the time, but in general we pick mates based on these attributes.

Would most women pick a sickly, whining, emotionally unstable male for a mate?

originally posted by: FyreByrd

Women like strong men physically, mentally, and emotionally.

originally posted by: Realtruth


A single word, or gesture from a woman can start, or stop a war.

Perhaps in fiction, but I'd have to see your references to believe that.

Whereas, in a hierarchical (male trait) society the death of a single man (or a perceived insult to one) can and has started destructive wars.

You speak of balance and then put the onus on women alone.

Women aren't feminine enough.

Well by the same logic then today's men tend towards too much maleness and I have no personal responsiblity to help correct it.

You are speaking as if your subjective experiences (women getting forman jobs, or being too masculine, etc) are objective reality. First if there even exists an 'objective realty' neither you nor I can access it because no matter how hard we try, we will always see the world through our own conditioned subjective lens.

If you perceive a lack of feminine in the world, work at cultivating your own feminine qualities. This idea that real men only express male traits and that's what women want is ludicruis.

If you perceive this lack in the world - it's the world telling you to fix the lack in yourself (but acknowledging and acting on such an idea would be very feminine of you). There is a whole Hawaiian healing school (healing - feminine) based on the idea of personal responsiblity (male) for the whole world and it's parts called Ho'popnonno or something like that.

originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: Realtruth

I always preferred the company of men, and I think some have become emasculated by today's society, just my opinion, I really feel for them.

I didn't want to use that word, but since you brought it up "emasculated" is an understatement.

My next thread should be "The loss of nuggets"

If you or other men FEEL (female) 'emasculated' they it is up to you to change the way you feel - not everyone else on the planet.

Other people, situations, don't make you FEEL, You make you FEEL. Only you can fix it.

I find it interesting you are choosing what fits your ideals, and discount words after.

This is typically called "Blind ignorance" in logical debates. Meaning the party only chooses what they want to hear.

Here is what I said originally, without discounting males.

A single word, or gesture from a woman can start, or stop a war. Same goes for a man, but which energy do they embrace for the situation.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: Realtruth


A single word, or gesture from a woman can start, or stop a war.

Perhaps in fiction, but I'd have to see your references to believe that.

Whereas, in a hierarchical (male trait) society the death of a single man (or a perceived insult to one) can and has started destructive wars.

You speak of balance and then put the onus on women alone.

Women aren't feminine enough.

Well by the same logic then today's men tend towards too much maleness and I have no personal responsiblity to help correct it.

originally posted by: Realtruth
The term strong is subjective.

What woman or man wants the other half, if they so choose a relationship to be weak?

Of course not everyone is going to be strong, all the time, but in general we pick mates based on these attributes.

Would most women pick a sickly, whining, emotionally unstable male for a mate?

originally posted by: FyreByrd

Women like strong men physically, mentally, and emotionally.

How could you possibly know that? I'd even dispute the term strong in your context.

Do you mean strong like 'the wall of china is strong' imovable and inviolate - physically.

Mentally - does strong mean remaining resolute in your thoughts, ideals and principles?

Emotionally - strong - as in 'not showing emotions' or not letting emotions effect your thinking or actions.

The above types of strong fall towards the masculene end of the 'strong' spectrum.

The quotes above got messed up...

So - I'm responding to this, though it's not entirely coherent...

What woman or man wants the other half, if they so choose a relationship to be weak?

Of course not everyone is going to be strong, all the time, but in general we pick mates based on these attributes.

You seem to have a very common missunderstanding about initimate relationships (and by common, I do mean in both males and females). You think the objective is to 'complete' yourself or 'balance' yourself with another. The attempt is pure folly, strenghts and weaknesses aside. True partnership can only be attained by those who are complete and content in themselves, warts farts and all - what you 'seem' to mean is really 'mutual dependant' or in modern parlance 'co-dependant'.

And I do agree most relationships today of of that variety. You would see very few 'mutually dependant' relationships in the past as each party to a 'marriage arrangement' had to be able to function on their own - side by side their partner without looking to or depending on the other. This one of the few good reasons for male and female society to be clearly separated.

I believe that there is a deeper problem of increased stress in modern society. This applies to both genders. National Geographic has an interesting documentary about stress called "Stress Portrait of a Killer": topdocumentaryfilms.com/stress-portrait-of-a-killer/

Prolonged, sustained, excessive stress and your similar response to it, not only causes deterioration of your brain, but it also compromises your immune system; your ability to fight off diseases.

I believe your post covers the symptom and stress makes up the lion-share of the cause. If you watch the documentary you will find a great analogy with a society of monkeys that were monitored over a 20+ year period.

In the end I don't think it requires being masculine, feminine, or polarity. Two people often get together because they already have the right mix. It requires empathy, caring, and compassion for each other to sustain things. It is easy to focus on what is wrong, but we only have control of ourselves. Being more considerate and more caring usually will pay back 10 fold (even if it takes awhile). It creates and sustains harmony.

I think it is a mistake to make things so one sided to find the solution. For example, (not to pick on Jamie1):

originally posted by: Jamie1
...
Yes, woman want you to open up. They want you to express your emotions. What that really means is they want you to be PRESENT when you're talking with them.
...

makes for a very one sided relationship. This may be what one individual wants but it may not be what both people need.


I agree completely with:

originally posted by: Jamie1

When women tell you things, LISTEN, don't try to fix them. Let them talk, and be present, until they're done talking. And when you think they''re done telling you something, say these three magic words: "Tell me more...."

But you really have to CARE and want to hear more. She is your gift from the universe. Treat her like you really believe it.

It only took me 15 years to realize I shouldn't try to fix things.

The only amendment I would make is that we are a gift to each other. I have always felt this way about my wife, but for some reason I always kept it inside me. It wasn't until I began to properly express these feelings that she understood.

This goes both ways. I believe it is a human trait. Nearly all of us want to be accepted and needed. We just express it in different ways.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

If you or other men FEEL (female) 'emasculated' they it is up to you to change the way you feel - not everyone else on the planet.

Other people, situations, don't make you FEEL, You make you FEEL. Only you can fix it.

Agreed my post was in sarcasm and a response direct to Jamie1

Just like when women "Feel" they have lost their femininity do to a male dominated society. Each person has the responsibility to handle their own emotions, and if the world projects drama, then learn not to react to it, or at least learn to weather the storm well.

a reply to: FyreByrd

It was the attitude of more than a few men that drove women to do this. Many guys would say their work was more important than the woman's job, which was definitely not true. The woman's lib was a good movement in the beginning and it was necessary. But women had to moderate it, that should not have been done by men.

People get caught up in things and do not think things through. The husbands used to make enough at work to support the family, now both have to work to get ahead. Many women worked part time for spending money while the kids were in school. Single young guys took a long time to climb the ladder and get decent pay. The married guy who supported his family with his job was given better money by some employers. Back then many employers tried to provide a living for their family man employees, even by paying them more than they would have paid others. It was a benefit for married men, not an inequality issue. I tried to pay my married employees better than the single ones in my business also, learning this from when I was young. Many people cannot fathom what I say of course, they just see that everything should be across the board equal.

originally posted by: TheArrow
Wow.

Someone needs to get laid.

you're tellin me lol

a reply to: Realtruth

yes, after I signed off, balance came to mind

originally posted by: Realtruth

Women like strong men physically, mentally, and emotionally.

To quote your theory again.

You know what I want as a women, from both men and women, is authenticity. I don't want someone playing a role, so that I might like them nor do I want someone to agree with me when they don't; I want people around me, most assuredly my intimate friends, who have the integrity and self presence to be kind and honest in all their dealing.

Not little boys and girls who play a role they think will get them what they want from another.

Made myself and others miserable.

I like being a grown up much better and I have wonderful friendships with people I can count on and that can count on me should the need arise.

a reply to: rickymouse

I remember those days ricky, but now at 65 and 64 my hubby and I are still working, me only part time though.

I don't know what people are going to do.

Am I off topic?