It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Howard Dean and John Kerry...2 peas in a pod that won't call a Spade a Spade...Islamic Terrorists

page: 2
9
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:00 AM
link   

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: tothetenthpower

Are there Christians shooting cartoonist?

I know they have a history, but at this point not comparable to extremism.

Some ATS posters say horrible things about Christians, right to their face here on ATS, I would never dream of talking to a forum member the way Christians are talked to.




What do you think is the religious beliefs of the people who do this?


I can't say I really agree with this argument. Abortion Extremists are killing those that are actually taking lives themselves, while it may not be a viable human embryo as defined by a court of law, they are still killing something that has a heartbeat and is developed enough to have to be killed.

I have no dog in the abortion rights fight though...to me, that all depends on circumstances of the situation. If you are going in for multiples simply because you can't keep your legs closed then maybe sterilization is more the course that should be followed.

Either way, this is a bit of an unfair comparison as these extremists are killing because others don't believe what they believe.




posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:00 AM
link   
a reply to: Stormdancer777

It happened this Year.

Uganda passed sweeping anti gay legislation, all the result of Fundy Christianity.

The Pope not even 10 years ago, went to Africa and said don't use condoms, it'll make AIDS worse.

What do you mean when?!

ALL THE TIME.

Just because they aren't beheading people, doesn't mean the damage they do, long term isn't just as bad, or worse.

Fundamentalism is the problem, not what kind of it you subscribe to.

~Tenth

edit on 1/8/2015 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:01 AM
link   
a reply to: buster2010

Apparently you missed election analysis showing 50% of women voted Republican for "security" of their community and the nation.

They know Obama, Kerry, and Dean are soft after 7 years at the controls...until November.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:03 AM
link   
Let's look at it from a different angle. Westboro people are Christians, and they are hateful bigots and homophobes. Therefore, all Christians are hateful bigots and homophobes. Does that work for you? Do you agree that the Westboro folks are Christians? Just because they have named their church Westboro Baptist, does that mean they can't be anything other than Christians? And if they are Christians, then that means the Christian religion is filled with hateful bigotry and homophobia. True?

What about that guy in Africa who forced children to be his "Christian soldiers"? What about all the Catholic priests who abuse children, and the Vatican who hushes it up? Now, you are looking at Christian groups all over the world who are causing problems. If we go by your logic, Christianity itself is the problem, NOT the individuals who claim to be Christians, but act contrary to true Christian ideals.

What we are really looking at, in my opinion, is a cultural problem, not necessarily a Muslim problem. We are looking at a sub-set of culture that glorifies murder and violence.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:03 AM
link   

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: Stormdancer777



I know they have a history, but at this point not comparable to extremism.

The KKK and the Army of God cry they are Christians how many have they killed? Here are some Christian terrorist acts in America but the media is never constantly crying about them like they do Muslims.
Wisconsin Sikh Temple massacre, Aug. 5, 2012.
The murder of Dr. George Tiller, May 31, 2009.
Knoxville Unitarian Universalist Church shooting, July 27, 2008.
The murder of Dr. John Britton, July 29, 1994.
The Centennial Olympic Park bombing, July 27, 1996.
The murder of Barnett Slepian by James Charles Kopp, Oct. 23, 1998.
Planned Parenthood bombing, Brookline, Massachusetts, 1994.
Suicide attack on IRS building in Austin, Texas, Feb. 18, 2010.
The murder of Alan Berg, June 18, 1984.
Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City bombing, April 19, 1995.
10 of the Worst Terror Attacks by Extreme Christians and Far-Right White Men
Most terrorist acts in America are committed by Christians but for some reason it's only Muslims that are labeled as terrorist. People say well it's because it says so in the Qur'an while choosing to overlook that the bible has three times the violence that the Qur'an has.


I am not positive on ALL of those, but as far as I know they were not, and never claimed to be doing it for Christianity. The Islamic Extremists ALWAYS claim they are doing it for Islam, which unifies them in a way the ones you listed can't be unified.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:07 AM
link   

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I guess my issue with this idea is that there are not other religious groups all over the world right now committing atrocities in the name of their religion. WBC may be a crazy sect of Christianity, but they are mostly localized to their small area. Islamic Extremists are popping up all over the world and killing people in the name of Islam. There are plenty of crazies out there that do things in the name of whatever they believe....this is different....there are multiple groups, all under the same religion, loosely affiliated by this religion and killing in the name OF this religion.


The reason for this is because WE give them a platform to get their message across. We let them know their actions work by fearing them and resorting to all sorts of overreaction to stop them. If we just ignored them like we do the Christian nutters, then they'd fade into obscurity.


While it is not necessarily "organized" in a sense that they are not all working together, they ARE all working in a similar fashion with similar goals and killing by the thousands in multiple areas. I can't say the same for any other religion these days.


There are quite a few black people in urban cities who kill people over various drug related reasons, does that mean we can conclude that most black people are gangsters?


This implies a problem to me.....not a misunderstanding of them, but a genuine problem within the religion that allows for multiple sects to have the same belief of killing in the name of their god being allowed under their religious beliefs.


Christianity allows for the SAME thing. Christians are just more covert about it these days.


Fact is, there are multiple sects of Islam, just as there are of Christianity, yet it seems multiples of Islam seem to think this is OK.


No one thinks this is ok. You THINK that the Islam moderates think it is ok because that is the picture the MSM paints for you. Stop buying into the propaganda though. This is the second thread I've commented on from you where your source material is Fox News. Fox News... Really?



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:08 AM
link   

originally posted by: Jamie1
You're point makes zero sense. Let's snap back to reality, here and now.

We have a world were Islamic extremists are regularly murdering people. Their leaders are unabashedly saying the murders are justified by their religious beliefs.

They are called "terrorists" because their goal is to induce fear, i.e., "terror" in people to get what they want, kind of like a bully on the playground does when he threatens to beat up kids for their lunch money.

They call themselves Muslims. That's how they've self-identified.

When our "leaders" are more concerned about what we call them, and making sure we don't hurt their feelings, it's time for different leaders.

We either stop these Muslim terrorists, or they keep slaughtering innocent civilians.

I say we stop them.

What do you think?


You need to go back are reread all my posts in this thread. You have clearly missed my point.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:13 AM
link   

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
I can't say I really agree with this argument. Abortion Extremists are killing those that are actually taking lives themselves, while it may not be a viable human embryo as defined by a court of law, they are still killing something that has a heartbeat and is developed enough to have to be killed.


Uh huh... This is the same reasoning that Muslim extremists use to justify their killings. The irony here is palpable. Nice to see that you agree with violence that is used to get results that you desire.


I have no dog in the abortion rights fight though...to me, that all depends on circumstances of the situation. If you are going in for multiples simply because you can't keep your legs closed then maybe sterilization is more the course that should be followed.


Just stop already. Muslim extremists use reasons like America occupying their country, bombing their towns, letting corporations run roughshod over their land and resources. Everyone has reasons for their violence. Some of it may be justified, some may be irrational. In any case, violence is violence.


Either way, this is a bit of an unfair comparison as these extremists are killing because others don't believe what they believe.


They kill for more reasons than that. This sentence shows a gross misunderstanding of why Muslims do what they do and believe what they do. Have you SEEN what America has done to their countries of origin? Because I have. I was in Iraq during 2005 and saw that the country looked like one giant garbage dump. It's not surprising that some people would grow to have a dislike of the great Satan that is America and react violently.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:21 AM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

First...what does the source matter if the facts are correct as applied to the topic...both politicians said the same thing. I read sources all over the place and look for facts....these are facts.

WE don't give them any platform...THEY do this ALL OVER THE WORLD...not just US MSM. ALL forms of media state the same...they always say they do it for Islam. I don't think this being broadcast is the reason they do it.

No...you can't say most blacks are gangsters, but based on US populations and crime stats from the FBI, you can say that out of 30,929,319 blacks age 15+ and 2012 arrest records of 2,640,067 blacks that 8.5% of them are. By these calculations, applying them to the number of Muslims being roughly 1.5 Billion, that makes around 136 Million of them extremists.

136 Million extremists is a lot.

Again, I don't see any extreme Christian groups spreading around the world killing in the name of Christianity, and it isn't just because they are not stating it....they simply are not doing it in the name of religion.

I have no idea what Islamic moderates think because they tend to not say anything at all....likely out of fear they themselves will be killed by those they speak against.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:23 AM
link   

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: Vasa Croe

I see where your coming from, but there's something important here I think we are leaving out.

We have casually branded all Muslims as extremists and terrorist for the better part of two decades now.

They don't do it Christians, they call them mass murderers or serial killers or "Freeman" or something else that's not as incendiary.

I think that having our leaders express sympathy for those who follow those religious beliefs ,without the obvious insanity is good, because it shows a willingness to understand the moderate concepts of Islam.

~Tenth
NO. we don't. Show me where calling muslim extremist terrorists muslim terrorists brands all muslims as terrorists. that is a strawman. you cannot begin with a strawman and then argue as if your incorrect portrayal is the truth and not get called on it. were it true we'd be out killing all muslims right now. but we aren't, haven't and won't be doing that. Because there is virtually no one that actually thinks that all muslims are bad. your characterization of the situation is nauseating propagandic nonsense.
edit on 8-1-2015 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-1-2015 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:23 AM
link   

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Vasa Croe

What's the difference between a religious cult that is violent and a religious terrorist organization? We call crazy Christians like the WBC cults so that we can avoid lumping all Christians into their crazy beliefs. How many people would get upset if I were to casually call all Christians a bunch of nutters then cite the WBC as an example? Yet here you are ranting and raving because a few politicians want to take the time to clarify that not all Muslims are extremist assholes just like we do with Christians here.

Do you call the nation's forefathers terrorists? Because they certainly fit the description of what is a terrorist. Me, I'd rather stop calling anyone a terrorist. Violence is violence and it is illegal everywhere.


When was the last radicalized christians perpetrated mass murder on a weekly basis in the name of god?

That is the quite obvious difference.

Either by honest or stop.

This is nor the same as a christian or Buddhist who kills and just happens to be religious.

These people are actively doing at least weekly in the name of their god.

You are talking bs just like tenth.

Just call them like they are.

Muslim extremists.

As soon as christians kill folks weekly in the name of their god, you can try an apples and oranges comparison.

Right now you just sound fruity.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:25 AM
link   

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
I can't say I really agree with this argument. Abortion Extremists are killing those that are actually taking lives themselves, while it may not be a viable human embryo as defined by a court of law, they are still killing something that has a heartbeat and is developed enough to have to be killed.


Uh huh... This is the same reasoning that Muslim extremists use to justify their killings. The irony here is palpable. Nice to see that you agree with violence that is used to get results that you desire.


I have no dog in the abortion rights fight though...to me, that all depends on circumstances of the situation. If you are going in for multiples simply because you can't keep your legs closed then maybe sterilization is more the course that should be followed.


Just stop already. Muslim extremists use reasons like America occupying their country, bombing their towns, letting corporations run roughshod over their land and resources. Everyone has reasons for their violence. Some of it may be justified, some may be irrational. In any case, violence is violence.


Either way, this is a bit of an unfair comparison as these extremists are killing because others don't believe what they believe.


They kill for more reasons than that. This sentence shows a gross misunderstanding of why Muslims do what they do and believe what they do. Have you SEEN what America has done to their countries of origin? Because I have. I was in Iraq during 2005 and saw that the country looked like one giant garbage dump. It's not surprising that some people would grow to have a dislike of the great Satan that is America and react violently.


Or they kill because someone drew a cartoon about them.....



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:28 AM
link   

originally posted by: kaylaluv
Let's look at it from a different angle. Westboro people are Christians, and they are hateful bigots and homophobes. Therefore, all Christians are hateful bigots and homophobes. Does that work for you? Do you agree that the Westboro folks are Christians? Just because they have named their church Westboro Baptist, does that mean they can't be anything other than Christians? And if they are Christians, then that means the Christian religion is filled with hateful bigotry and homophobia. True?

What about that guy in Africa who forced children to be his "Christian soldiers"? What about all the Catholic priests who abuse children, and the Vatican who hushes it up? Now, you are looking at Christian groups all over the world who are causing problems. If we go by your logic, Christianity itself is the problem, NOT the individuals who claim to be Christians, but act contrary to true Christian ideals.

What we are really looking at, in my opinion, is a cultural problem, not necessarily a Muslim problem. We are looking at a sub-set of culture that glorifies murder and violence.


This is another pathetic attempt to create a false moral equivalency.

Westboro Baptist - they say stupid sh!t and piss off people at funerals. Total members? About 40.

Islamic terrorists - they commit mass murders for cartoons. Killed 130 school children in Pakistan last month.

No, it's not the same.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:35 AM
link   

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
a reply to: Krazysh0t

First...what does the source matter if the facts are correct as applied to the topic...both politicians said the same thing. I read sources all over the place and look for facts....these are facts.


Fox News presents more than just facts. The facts of the issue may be correct, but the spin they apply using those facts is flawed.


WE don't give them any platform...THEY do this ALL OVER THE WORLD...not just US MSM. ALL forms of media state the same...they always say they do it for Islam. I don't think this being broadcast is the reason they do it.


Well they certainly have a message and are trying to disseminate it to as many people as possible, but WE reinforce their message by giving it legs. We repeat it and talk about it and fear it and overreact to it that allows it to propagate.


No...you can't say most blacks are gangsters, but based on US populations and crime stats from the FBI, you can say that out of 30,929,319 blacks age 15+ and 2012 arrest records of 2,640,067 blacks that 8.5% of them are. By these calculations, applying them to the number of Muslims being roughly 1.5 Billion, that makes around 136 Million of them extremists.

136 Million extremists is a lot.


Who cares? I never implied that there is a percentage correlation between blacks being gangsters and Muslims being extremists. I was just writing an analogy, which you apparently took in the wrong direction.


Again, I don't see any extreme Christian groups spreading around the world killing in the name of Christianity, and it isn't just because they are not stating it....they simply are not doing it in the name of religion.


You don't see them or you aren't looking for them? Because I've already shown you one version of it. Others in this thread have pointed out other examples. But hey, let's go further. The KKK is a Christian group that is all about white supremacy through force of violence and intimidation.


I have no idea what Islamic moderates think because they tend to not say anything at all....likely out of fear they themselves will be killed by those they speak against.


How do you know they aren't saying anything? No one gives them a platform to talk. I happen to work with a bunch of moderate Muslims and I've heard their opinions about these extremists in good detail.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:36 AM
link   
a reply to: Jamie1

Since Stormdancer seems to have skipped out of the thread, would you care to answer the question in this post?



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:38 AM
link   
a reply to: Vasa Croe

It is unfair.

Jesus people, just say it.

Here I will help you, free your mind,

All together.

Islam needs reforms.

There now wasn't that easy?


youtu.be...



There now wasn't that easy?

love

edit on 103131p://bThursday2015 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:39 AM
link   

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: Stormdancer777

It happened this Year.

Uganda passed sweeping anti gay legislation, all the result of Fundy Christianity.

The Pope not even 10 years ago, went to Africa and said don't use condoms, it'll make AIDS worse.

What do you mean when?!

ALL THE TIME.

Just because they aren't beheading people, doesn't mean the damage they do, long term isn't just as bad, or worse.

Fundamentalism is the problem, not what kind of it you subscribe to.

~Tenth


You're perpetuation more false equivalencies.

If fundamentalism is the problem, then what's the solution? Forced conformity?

You're going down the road where the inevitable outcome are the Orwellian thought police.

No, the problem is Islamic radicals committing mass murders all over the world.

130 school kids in Pakistan last month. 12 journalist in Paris yesterday.

And you're comparing this to the Pope expressing his views on condoms in Africa 10 years ago?

So in your view more black children being born in Africa is a negative?



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:40 AM
link   
a reply to: stormbringer1701


NO. we don't. Show me where calling muslim extremist terrorists muslim terrorists brands all muslims as terrorists.


What?

Have you been living under a rock for 20 years? I could literally google, in 2 mins, at least 10 heads of states, 30 cabinet members, 200 congressmen and women and about a thousand religious leaders in the US, that have, and are and will brand ALL of Islam as religious extremism that is dangerous.

that is a strawman. you cannot begin with a strawman and then argue as if your incorrect portrayal is the truth and not get called on it.


ere it true we'd be out killing all muslims right now. but we aren't, haven't and won't be doing that


Again, have you been living under a rock?

Let's take a look at total civilian causalities, sine 2001 shall we?

Over 300 thousand +, from Iraq and Afghanistan

Yes, we have been indiscriminate, killing Muslims for 20 years. Just take a look at Obama's drone program, and how many terrorists he kills vs civilians.


Because there is virtually no one that actually thinks that all muslims are bad.


There are hundreds of thousands of people, who think exactly that. And a lot of them, are in power.

I'm not going to give you a history lesson here, but yeah...you're wrong.

~Tenth



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:41 AM
link   

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Jamie1

Since Stormdancer seems to have skipped out of the thread, would you care to answer the question in this post?

YES, stormdancer skips out when the debate gets foolish

don't beat dead horses
edit on 103131p://bThursday2015 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:41 AM
link   

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
I am not positive on ALL of those, but as far as I know they were not, and never claimed to be doing it for Christianity. The Islamic Extremists ALWAYS claim they are doing it for Islam, which unifies them in a way the ones you listed can't be unified.


So? They are radical extremists. Why take their word for it? If they were doing it in the name of Ronald McDonald would you stop eating burgers? It seems to me that some want to label it MUSLIM because it's easier to hate someone(even though they have done nothing to deserve it) due to fear of these maniacs. Slander ALL Islam. Pfft.







 
9
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join