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Is it a poor mindset? An atheist mindset? What causes paranoia?

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posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 09:57 AM
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a reply to: darkbake

My diagnosis is that you might do well to travel more, and witness human nature on a grander scale than the one you might be used to.

The negative outlook on life occurs when one loses faith in the world. Be sure to note, however, that Christianity holds only a positive view of death, and not life. Atheism, on the other hand, does its best to do away with faith altogether, out of fear of being deceived once again.




posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:15 AM
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a reply to: darkbake

The examples that you give have much less to do with religion and more to do with political ideology (although there's not much separating the two).

What you define as selfish and paranoid could be a response to societal beliefs and conspiratorial rumblings. If we live in an unstable economy, or if I have a job that I can't rely on for stability of employment, I'm not going to be as giving with my resources because I'm not certain that I won't need them come hard times. Your belief in unlimited resources, while theoretically true, is not for every individual. A poor person in a rural setting with land on which to grow food from cheap seeds or hunt/trap wild game for cheap food is an entirely different reality than someone living in the heart of a concrete jungle's ghetto with no feesible way out to tap these "unlimited" resources.

Our "leaders" in our country and around the world are, IMO, directly responsible for much of the paranoia, because all we hear about is the alarmist situations that may or may not exist, shared with the public only as a basis for passing legislation that gives them more power.

See, my analysis in and of itself can be seen as paranoid, even though reality backs it up.

Quite honestly, I don't think that the only two types that you put out are a realistic assessment of humanity. One can be logically frugal with their supplies while, at the same time, helping those in need. Honestly, I'd like to think that the majority of people, but that type of interaction doesn't make the news unless it's Christmas time, so we forget about it for 11/12ths of the year.

Any intelligent person knows that it is a network of diverse people that aid in survival, happiness, and longevity. Anyone who isolates himself out of paranoia will live a miserable existence, even if they survive to a ripe old age...although there are the few who prefer that scenario.

My point is that you haven't done a good enough job estimating the majority of society, as they don't tend to fall in just one of the two catagories you present. External influences directly affect one's ability/willingness to be either selfish or giving, so I don't think you've presented a fair argument.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:17 AM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I wish your name "LesMisanthrope" was mine. I covet it.

Also, intelligent comment.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:40 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: darkbake

My diagnosis is that you might do well to travel more, and witness human nature on a grander scale than the one you might be used to.

The negative outlook on life occurs when one loses faith in the world. Be sure to note, however, that Christianity holds only a positive view of death, and not life. Atheism, on the other hand, does its best to do away with faith altogether, out of fear of being deceived once again.


Quoted for agreement. Well said.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:49 AM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

Le Misanthrope, the correct form, is probably available.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 12:18 PM
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My analysis.

Humans are still animals. Dominance and survival of the fittest. Everyone else is expected to fall in line behind the leader. Occasionally there will be challenges to the leader. A challenger might even win. Will it make a difference? Probably not, or very little. The leader has to keep control or there will be anarchy ---- until one emerges again as dominant. Then the cycle begins again.

I wish humans, as the dominant hiarchy, were more evolved and enlightened, but in mass they are not. There are only scatterings here and there. Not enough in number or power to lead. I always have hope the "shift of thought" will someday occur.

Atheism is the most enlightened mindset I've experienced.

I spent about 60 years in religion, beginning (actually assimilated into) Christianity. To me religion is not honest. It takes your power away and gives it to an invisible force. You spend your life living for and trying to appease an all powerful leader ---- who has the final say/judgement on how you did. Religion is fear based.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 01:14 PM
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a reply to: darkbake

Stress can reduce pro-social behaviour - people can get a little self-absorbed, quickly irritated and less tolerant when things get on top of them.

Humans have been cooperating long before any abrahamic religions popped up. It is how we have gotten this far as a species.




I wonder if atheists are able to care for one another,


Really ....... C'mon.

What somebody's motivation is for acting a certain way is important too -

Doing 'the right thing' because god is watching or doing the right time simply because it feels good to help others.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 01:41 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope


Atheism, on the other hand, does its best to do away with faith altogether, out of fear of being deceived once again.

There's some truth to this, but as an atheist, who was once a believer, I've come to realize that everyone has faith in someone or something, whether or not they acknowledge it as such.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 01:44 PM
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originally posted by: boymonkey74
I must be one of those people


My 12th level Mage/thief has over 2032 gold coins
.



Is that mage/thief a you or simply a character? I've played a range of characters at the table. Some of them hoarde and some of them don't. It depends on who they trust and how much among other things.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 01:55 PM
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It's interesting that studies have shown that those who have less generally tend to share more. That is probably because they have experience what it is to be without and can empathize better when they see someone in need. So the concept of paying it forward is easier to grasp. You have extra today, so you offer it to others in the hope that they will remember your help in your lean times tomorrow.

It also depends on how you were raised.

In today's society, our communities are broken. You have family, not just inside the home, but extended - nuclear, with aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc. - all lived close enough to help and support one another forming a kinship network. These days, out stories are all about how horrible and dysfunctional these units are. We seem encouraged not to form them, and hear endless stories about how hopeless even the marriage that cements the nuclear family unit is.

You had faith communities. You and your parents had friends in the church (or whatever faith community it was). You went to Sunday school with them. You formed a network with them and there was a support network available for your family there. Food, sometimes babysitting, clothing, shelter even for members on hard times. It was part of being in the community. And then there were the various community service projects the groups did for the larger community as a whole - storm and disaster relief, cleaning up parks and repainting, all sorts of things we now hire public employees for.

You also had your immediate neighborhood - All the women on the block knew each other. All the kids played together. Everyone kept an eye out for everyone else. You played outside from early morning until supper time. You helped each other out.

Look at how much has been destroyed! Look at how many sourced of support we no longer have and are now ridiculed by our modern media as unworthy or untrustworthy, and yet they did a lot for us beyond the bare surface functions everyone thinks of. They made us strong as a people and independent. They helped make us self-reliant.

Maybe that's why the government is so happy they're gone or rapidly disappearing? Now, we need our government.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 02:15 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey




I wish your name "LesMisanthrope" was mine. I covet it.


It's a play on plays, if you've read any French playwrights. Or you can run and google it like everyone else seems to do...about everything.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 02:16 PM
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a reply to: Klassified

I agree with you. Whether they admit it or not is the question. Faith is beneficial. What do you have faith in?

In my observation, those who identify themselves as atheists in an active way do so because they still wish to practice theology without the connotations such tastes imply. Thinking, reasoning and speaking about the nature of God is often on their mind, so to speak, despite the claims they do not believe in it.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 02:23 PM
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In this case, do Christians get off the hook because their belief system allows believers to band together and share resources without feeling hatred towards each other because they believe there are infinite resources from Heaven, and it is not going to harm them to aid one another?


power and safety of the tribe

Evolutionary origin of religions
en.wikipedia.org...



Psychologist Matt J. Rossano argues that religion emerged after morality and built upon morality by expanding the social scrutiny of individual behavior to include supernatural agents. By including ever-watchful ancestors, spirits and gods in the social realm, humans discovered an effective strategy for restraining selfishness and building more cooperative groups.[17] The adaptive value of religion would have enhanced group survival.[18] [19] Rossano is referring here to collective religious belief and the social sanction that institutionalized morality. According to Rossano's teaching, individual religious belief is thus initially epistemological, not ethical, in nature.




"attachment and bonding, cooperation and mutual aid, sympathy and empathy, direct and indirect reciprocity, altruism and reciprocal altruism, conflict resolution and peacemaking, deception and deception detection, community concern and caring about what others think about you, and awareness of and response to the social rules of the group".[15]



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko




Look at how much has been destroyed! Look at how many sourced of support we no longer have and are now ridiculed by our modern media as unworthy or untrustworthy, and yet they did a lot for us beyond the bare surface functions everyone thinks of. They made us strong as a people and independent. They helped make us self-reliant.

True that

we have burned our bridges, threw out the baby with the bath water

The Amish comes to mind



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 02:51 PM
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"I wish humans, as the dominant hiarchy, were more evolved and enlightened, . . . "

UGH! Yes I really did that. Correct spelling: hierarchy.

I knew it was wrong. I tried to get back in to fix it, but ATS got in a wonky mood and wouldn't let me in.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 03:28 AM
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originally posted by: Klassified


I wonder if atheists are able to care for one another, and I have met many who can, but are there some atheists out there who are driven mad by individuality and unable to form altruistic relationships because they don't believe in helping others? I have ran into more than a few of those, too.

I wonder if humans are able to care for one another, and I have met many who can, but are there some humans out there who are driven mad by individuality and unable to form altruistic relationships because they don't believe in helping others? I have ran into more than a few of those, too.

There. Fixed.


First of all, that makes sense.

However, I was trying to pinpoint the cause of paranoia I've experienced in certain groups. I was wondering if having a common belief system helps those within the belief system be altruistic with one another. Atheists can have belief systems, too.

The Book is a movie that explores a similar concept.
edit on 09amFri, 09 Jan 2015 03:29:26 -0600kbamkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



originally posted by: Stormdancer777


In this case, do Christians get off the hook because their belief system allows believers to band together and share resources without feeling hatred towards each other because they believe there are infinite resources from Heaven, and it is not going to harm them to aid one another?


power and safety of the tribe



This is more what I was talking about, altruism within religion, not altruism to outsiders.
edit on 09amFri, 09 Jan 2015 03:31:22 -0600kbamkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 07:23 AM
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a reply to: darkbake


However, I was trying to pinpoint the cause of paranoia I've experienced in certain groups. I was wondering if having a common belief system helps those within the belief system be altruistic with one another. Atheists can have belief systems, too.

They most certainly can, and do.



power and safety of the tribe.



This is more what I was talking about, altruism within religion, not altruism to outsiders.

There's an old saying among certain sects of Xtianity. I always thought it was unique to where I grew up, but then I heard it elsewhere, and once on TV from a preacher.

"Christian's are the only army that bury their wounded."
edit on 1/9/2015 by Klassified because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 07:58 AM
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a reply to: darkbake

To explore your premise further, that certain groups may be more predisposed to being selfish, you are going to have to produce the statistical sampling data that shows a trend in this behavior among that particular group. Anecdotal evidence of your friends is usually not indicative of the entire population. If you cannot produce evidence of the trend, then we shouldn't be having this conversation since you are making assumptions about a group and your assumption could be wrong.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 08:03 AM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I assume from "Les Miserables?"

I caught it



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 08:12 AM
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a reply to: darkbake
This thread brings to mind the film 'In Time'. In the film instead of money being the currency, time is what you earn and spend - if you run out of currency you die. Well worth a watch if you have never seen it.




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