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Don't offend the Muslims!!!! (here we go again)

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posted on Jan, 7 2015 @ 10:43 PM
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a reply to: hutch622

One of my all-time favorite quotes…

What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.
Salman Rushdie

But the freedom to offend does not include the freedom to sow hate… in my opinion.




posted on Jan, 7 2015 @ 10:53 PM
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a reply to: SkepticOverlord


What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.
Salman Rushdie


True , but at what point does offence morph into hate .



posted on Jan, 7 2015 @ 10:59 PM
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originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: SkepticOverlord


What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.
Salman Rushdie


True , but at what point does offence morph into hate .



At about the 4th or 5th post here, from what I've witnessed today. Sad really, ATS members are better than that IMO.

edit on 1/7/2015 by Krakatoa because: Fixed spelling and other fat-finger errors



posted on Jan, 7 2015 @ 11:02 PM
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originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Could you please clarify your use of the phrase "you people" for us all?

ETA: Thanks for clarifying. I wouldn't want you to be misunderstood as in other threads.


His stance seems quite clear to me...he is a muslim apologist and an antisemite.

I have seen this many times.

Up to and including calling me a zionist, though I am agnostic.

If you disagree with muslims your a zionist in his mind.

He even called the victims of this terrorist attack morons for not kowtowing to the muslims demands.

Pretty clear where his thinking stems from.



posted on Jan, 7 2015 @ 11:07 PM
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a reply to: infinityorder

I definitely called you a Zionist.
You were defending Israeli atrocities & that is about as Zionist as one can get...
Being agnostic makes no difference.


I never called the victims morons though...

Or at least I didn't realise until it was released a lot later that one person I did call a moron had been victim to the attack.

To which I apologised fully.





Anti-Semite is a good one, haven't heard that in a while.


+4 more 
posted on Jan, 7 2015 @ 11:10 PM
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a reply to: SkepticOverlord




I'm embarrassed because of our ATS members.


That's rather insulting. Kind of like saying all Muslims are terrorists.

I realize these are emotional times, but perhaps instead of throwing all of the membership under the bus, you could say those showing hate embarrass you. Perhaps you could acknowledge all the members here that clearly realize there is a big difference between Islam and extremist Islam.



posted on Jan, 7 2015 @ 11:12 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I don't think it had anything to do with NOT offending Muslims. I feel like it had something to do with letting something that had or could eventually start to resemble a 1960's style lynch mob occur without care.

I have read so many threads here about people damning the use of torture and using the phrase "We can't let ourselves sink to their level or we are no better than they are".... Yet this was somehow different? Yes, people are pissed. Yes there are bad people out there that will kill others for posting a picture of Mohammed. Yes... That is more stupid than words can account for. Where are those same people who say that we can't or shouldn't sink to another's level in these instances?

It had gone off the rails to the point that it was unsalvageable. The original premise had been lost in a rush for folks to find the most offensive picture they could to join in the fun. Some joined in on the original premise... Some went 180 degrees the other way.

This is a personal opinion. This is not a "mod" opinion. I am sad that the thread took the turn that it did and I am glad that it was closed when it was.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jan, 7 2015 @ 11:24 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: infinityorder

I definitely called you a Zionist.
You were defending Israeli atrocities & that is about as Zionist as one can get...
Being agnostic makes no difference.


I never called the victims morons though...

Or at least I didn't realise until it was released a lot later that one person I did call a moron had been victim to the attack.

To which I apologised fully.





Anti-Semite is a good one, haven't heard that in a while.


I am no zionist, I just call bs as I see it.

I dont care if they worship the flying spagetti monster, they are aloud to defend themselves with force if necessary when attacked continually...ie. isreal palestinian situation.

Thanks for owning up to your mistakes, I do appreciate that.



posted on Jan, 7 2015 @ 11:29 PM
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originally posted by: Kangaruex4Ewe
Where are those same people who say that we can't or shouldn't sink to another's level in these instances?


Ironically, many of those people actually engage in the hate festivities.



This is a personal opinion. This is not a "mod" opinion. I am sad that the thread took the turn that it did and I am glad that it was closed when it was.


It was an expected turn of events though.

For a site which once had as its motto 'Deny Ignorance', many members here would rather bask in it. I didn't agree with the 'post pictures of Muhammad' thread, just as i didn't agree with the 'post pictures of Kim Jong-Un' thread. While i cherish freedom of speech and hold it as a fundamental foundation of our societies, people should really try and refrain from engaging in spiteful and ignorant behaviour. We don't even know what the motives were behind the terrorist attack in Paris, yet. As such, it didn't make all to much sense to display 'freedom of speech' by purposefully attempting to offend Muslims, most of whom are not extremists. There was no need for ATS to publicise the content on social media in an attempt to kickstart a viral trend either. In the end, the aggressive thread would have damaged the ATS brand, and i am glad that the social media employees saw that and removed the content in question.
edit on 7-1-2015 by daaskapital because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2015 @ 11:34 PM
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I guess the offense wasn't worth the potential loss of respect after all.



posted on Jan, 7 2015 @ 11:36 PM
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The original thread was destined to become what it became. When what amounts to an authority figure on ATS posts hate filled pictures that attack only one religion and violate the T&Cs. Then says he is defending free speech and others should do the same. What did anyone expect was gonna happen. That is declaring a free for all against a specific religion. After the site blessed the endeavor in that way. There was no other outcome that was possible.



In my honest opinion. The best thing the site could of done to be tasteful, respectful, and stand up for free speech. Would be to encourage the membership to switch their avatars to a simple portrait style picture of Muhammad. That way you could protest by saying we stand in solidarity against those who will kill others for showing a picture of the Prophet Muhammad. Something like this but with Je Suis Charlie or Je Suis France at the bottom.





If you start the thread off with hate in the form of a cartoon, you will end with nothing but a hate filled thread. Like I said before. Why did anyone expect anything different at all.

I will defend the rights of cartoonists to draw those kinds of cartoons no matter how offensive. What happened in France was a tragedy. Anyone who would kill over a cartoon is a stupid uneducated barbarian. But lets not pretend now, after the tragedy, that all those cartoons were not meant to be hateful against Islam and xenophobic against muslims. Then when others follow the spirit of those cartoons, by posting even more offensive cartoons and hateful rhetoric, we cry foul.


edit on 7-1-2015 by karmicecstasy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2015 @ 11:50 PM
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a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

Great report you should watch.

The Undeniable Ironic Truth Of Fundamentalism Is Clearer Than Ever





posted on Jan, 7 2015 @ 11:57 PM
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Meh.. humans.. theyre all bloody crazy .. squabling over pointless # that doesnt mean a damn thing ..



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 12:07 AM
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a reply to: Swills

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I'm what some would term "Christian", though I don't do mega church, buy your way into heaven, and many other things...

I agree with everything he said. He was spot on IMO. I'm tired of everyone's offendedness.



I do not ever go out of my way to make anyone uncomfortable, and think others probably shouldn't do so either... But only because it's just a really crappy way to treat your fellow human.

I don't agree with trying to stir hate or going out of ones way to cause offense, but again... It's because it's just a crappy thing to do.

Seriously though... The constant screams of offense (from everybody) is almost getting offensive.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 12:13 AM
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a reply to: Expat888


Text Meh.. humans.. theyre all bloody crazy .. squabling over pointless # that doesnt mean a damn thing ..


Oh well we had our shot . Singularity coming to a computer near you . Soon .



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 12:29 AM
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originally posted by: Expat888
Meh.. humans.. theyre all bloody crazy .. squabling over pointless # that doesnt mean a damn thing ..

Right there with you, brother.
"Can't we all just get along?
I know every now and then some sumbitch needs a whooping, but I don't like seeing whole groups lumped together.
Every person is an individual.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 12:31 AM
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a reply to: Domo1

I wouldn't have thought that level of clarification should be needed, I'd hope it's obvious after 13 years of doing everything he (we) can to promote what our members are thinking and their opinions.

I'll clarify it, when members of ATS turn to spewing hate it's embarrassing.

Sad too.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 12:37 AM
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a reply to: SkepticOverlord




I'm embarrassed because of our ATS members.


As a member I was embarrassed by the site owner using our community twitter page to promote this. The thread and idea was immature, silly and deliberately insensitive, Dont get me wrong, I initially clicked to take part in it as one of the immature/silly/insensitive ones doing so fully aware of what it was, in my opinion it was harmless and even a way of showing solidarity. Plus I really dont care who I offend based on what some book tells them to be offended by.

Obviously as the owner you can do as you please but the best thing about ATS is its diversity, click on any thread and you will find many different opinions and viewpoints and its what I love about the place.
I felt (even as someone who planned to participate in the thread) that you pasted the entire membership as being a part of it and I just feel its wrong.

As I said in the other thread, if you had of posted in your name and provided a link to the thread and even mentioned you were the owner I would have applauded you but I really feel like you have done the wrong thing by many members by doing what you did under the ATS brand and not ur own.

Ill say it again, Im am 100% behind the idea I just dont think ATS should be, it seems beneath what the site as a whole represents to me.

My Kitty avatar is due for a makeover so to show my solidaritywith the idea as an INDIVIDUAL I will be requesting something Muhammed (PBUH) like in the Avatar creations thread



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 01:02 AM
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originally posted by: Springer
a reply to: Domo1

I wouldn't have thought that level of clarification should be needed, I'd hope it's obvious after 13 years of doing everything he (we) can to promote what our members are thinking and their opinions.

I'll clarify it, when members of ATS turn to spewing hate it's embarrassing.

Sad too.


I meant no disrespect, but I felt there was some leveled against the whole of ATS membership.

I just wanted it clarified than not all members should be an embarrassment. Perhaps my comments embarrass you, but I am not all of ATS, and to say that all ATS members embarrass one of the Owners of the site is insulting (it was worded to include all of us). Not everyone has been anti Islam, and many people have argued that judging Islam on this act alone is a disgrace.

I'm disappointed by your response. I took issue with a site owner painting all of ATS with a broad brush, and I was met with a stubborn post that completely ignored my point of contention.

Is it really so hard to say "I'm sorry, I didn't mean everyone on the site is an embarrassment?".

I give you and the mods a great deal of respect. I'm asking that members get a tiny bit of respect too. Your members make this site.

If you care about this site, apologize to the membership.

I'll be banned, but before I go thank you SO, Springer and ATS, I love you. You helped me through some rough times.




edit on 0820150120151 by Domo1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 01:12 AM
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a reply to: AreUKiddingMe


Is there any respect demonstrated from Muslims to US citizens? More hatred than anything else.


I know this is a rant but I guess in your steam, you let the millions and millions of that faith that live among us as hard working citizens slip your mind. I understand anger but I think it needs to be tempered with reality and in this case it is these people who live here, work here and raise their children to be Americans.



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