Kochs and Walmart Fight to Stop Solar Panels

originally posted by: Iwinder


Also where do old batteries go to die? And at what cost is the battery grave yard?

Your talking mega losses for home owners and I will say not many are biting to join this stupid ploy.

Regards, Iwinder

Today's batteries(the deep cycle one that one would use for house power) are recyclable. Technology is improving and a hydrogen cell is possible too.

History has shown that the Oil oligarchy has taken great measures to keep the population dependent on oil.

a reply to: Jamie1

lololol it simply cannot be big business's fault can it?

I mean, it's not like they have a lot of money power and influence right???

oh... wait...

a reply to: Grimpachi

Ya, compressed air would certainly be safer. Probably more efficient too since burning the Hydrogen to get back energy would lose some in the heat loss as well. I suppose it would only make sense if you actually wanted to use and were set up for using Hydrogen as a fuel for other things like heating or cooking too. Even then there are probably better ways. Might make a interesting Rube Goldberg machine though?!!?

originally posted by: Jamie1
The point being it's nothing but a feel good, ad hominem attack on Walmart and the Koch brothers to demonize them. They don't vote, and they don't accept the campaign money.

So what? Demonize the lobbyist. Then ask the politicians getting paid by the lobbyist to pass laws preventing them from taking campaign money. And by the way, they're not bribes. The ex-Governor in Virginia just got sentenced for accepting what where basically bribes.

The responsibility is squarely on the shoulders of the voters. If they're so apathetic and ignorant to vote based on party every election, and are swayed by 30 second commercials and yard signs, that's their own doing.

It's absolutely not an ad-hominem to route this thing back to the source of the whole problem. Our elected sellouts are certainly a huge accessory to the crime and deserve a lot of blame and accountability, but their main offense is that they are essentially spineless puppets - so why deflect from the people who've got their hands right up those puppets' *****?

And you're right that the only way we're going to see real change is to have an educated, lucid electorate that does not stand for this kind of BS - but that process is centered around making the general public aware of this BS going on behind the scenes in the first place.

Trying to reroute the blame squarely on voters is not only putting the cart before the horse, it's pretending the horse doesn't even exist, which is....silly.



...
I sometimes wonder if there really truly are paid shills on ATS.

a reply to: mOjOm

lol

Yeah the safety issue is a big one for me. The video and article were ones I just found but several years ago I looked into it more thoroughly. One place designed an air engine for forklifts that was rotary which cleaned up the docks tremendously where it was being used of course it was pretty powerful.

The thing is only about 28 pounds and and clean air is the byproduct.montaraventures.com...

With solar you have the excess electric running a air compressor and tanks which if you have enough excess you can store up. The tanks I had seen them use were repurposed propane tanks from the old forklifts.

Then at night just hook up your air tanks to the rotary engine driving a generator or have the tanks already set up directly with auto starts.

Problem is I don't think they are selling the motor anywhere yet. There are plenty of Pneumatic motors on the market so I am sure I could couple one to a electric generator.

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
a reply to: soficrow

Yeah, it worked here in Arizona. In the sate with the most sun, beginning soon there will be a annual tax on home solar panels. Their astro-turf efforts were very aggressive.

What's the elevator pitch to justify the taxes? I

Solar panels are dark, and my guess is that they increase ground surface area heat. The color black retains heat. If solar panels were snow white, they would make it cooler. Eventually they will get around to taxing roof tiles based on color selection. They will tax your blacktop driveway differently than your concrete slab. If you have a gravel road, they will tax the dust (yes they do it is in the works circa 5 years ago mentioned on this site). It's really just a matter of getting compliance. They like that. Eat mercury or co-exist with cold diode flickering digital lighting all in symphony with the digital master chef, because tungsten, which is warm, analog, clean, and pleasant to the eye, blows out with these new fangled wavelengths going round the new improved smart energy grid, and they want these heat bombs off the street and cleaned from your closet.….

more than just pipes will freeze

meanwhile, in homes everywhere, the proles are wondering why their audio/video is out of synch by over a second, on their new improved digital broadcast TV…? This would have been intolerable in a 30's classroom, on projector day.

They are rubbing it in our faces.

# 338

I'm not surprised at all...Unfortunately this is the greedy, power hungry world we are experiencing daily.
Makes me angry.

I would love it if all the homeowners of the US just up and left. Emigrated.
Not gunna happen but man would I love to see the faces of the people who pull the strings and their puppets.

Boycott Walmart.

originally posted by: Jamie1
Well if everybody but me knows it, who is voting the elected officials into office?

Most people are happy with their person in congress, that's why reelection rates for incumbents are so high. At the same time most people are unhappy with all the other representatives, that's why everyone has high approval rates but congress itself is so abysmal.

a reply to: soficrow

If solar panels are eating into profits thats one thing but what may also concern some is that an independet supply of energy brings independance and some people dont like that.

a reply to: soficrow
What did you expect in a world ruled by the giant oil corporations?

They don't want to buy your spare electrons because that makes you able to deduct 100% on your taxes as an energy producer. If they tax you it's just a tax that you have to pay. Then you need to start billing and deducting the maintance time and such. Add fees for this and that like they do the fees to get your investment back.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

S& ...Do people even get that charging fees for using solar energy means privatizing the SUN?! Reminds me of the Cochabamba Water War - this Bolivian city privatized it's water and sold the rights to a multinational consortium.

It was even illegal to collect rainwater, which was privately owned by the consortium under the agreement. Water rates got hiked so high, people had to choose between water and food - and totally forget about paying rent.

...so the people revolted.

How can people think it's okay to privatize the sun and rain?


: puz :

originally posted by: NonsensicalUserName
a reply to: Jamie1

lololol it simply cannot be big business's fault can it?

I mean, it's not like they have a lot of money power and influence right???

oh... wait...

Fault for what? For voting for politicians who imposed a $5 a month charge for those with solar panels who sell their electricity back to the grid?

Did you even read the article? The fee doesn't even go into effect for 20 years for homeowners who have solar panels now.

I'm still trying to figure out the grievance. Do you think the utility company is obligated to buy power from solar panel owners with no $5 monthly surcharge, or do you think net-metering is wrong.

Other than demagoguery against the evil businesses, what's the grievance?

a reply to: Jamie1

....I'm still trying to figure out the grievance.

These fools are trying to privatize the SUN.

Which is like privatizing the rain. Which they did in Cochabamba. Then they hiked the water rates so high, people had to choose between water and food - and totally forget about paying rent.

So the people revolted.




Enough is enough.

a reply to: soficrow

Absolutely disgusting leeches.

They ought to be tried for crimes against Humanity.

Filth.

originally posted by: soficrow
a reply to: Jamie1

....I'm still trying to figure out the grievance.

These fools are trying to privatize the SUN.

Which is like privatizing the rain. Which they did in Cochabamba. Then they hiked the water rates so high, people had to choose between water and food - and totally forget about paying rent.

So the people revolted.




Enough is enough.

Did you even read the article?

No, that's not what they're doing. They're not privatizing the sun.

They provide the electric grid through which solar panel owners can sell power back into the grid. They want solar panel owners to pay a small fee for this privilege so that non-solar panel owners aren't footing the entire bill.

That's not privatizing the sun.

a reply to: Jamie1

Can you spell SCAM ? Ruse? Subterfuge? Maneuver? Swindle? Bamboozle? Hoodwink? Flimflam?

How 'bout fraudulent?


They're trying to privatize the SUN.

Just like when the consortium privatized the rain in Cochabamba - and started charging fees and fining people for collecting rainwater.





peh

a reply to: soficrow

I know of a family who ended up in a huge lawsuit battle with Manitoba Hydro.

They live in the St. Clements area just outside of Winnipeg near the floodway. They put up a wind turbine to generate power as a means of saving on their electric bill and reduce their footprint, ended up with a surplus of power and approached MB Hydro with the offer to give the surplus over to them.

So what did MB Hydro do ?

Yup, took them to court, threatened to bankrupt the family, and the courts forced them to take the wind turbine down.

So much for all this push towards 'green energy' and 'energy savings' being spewed by Manitoba Hydro... it's only "green" when it suits their money making agenda.

Here the family thought they were doing the planet a favour... only to find out that they where committing a 'criminal' act.

a reply to: soficrow

What does oil have to do with solar panels? That's more like competition for Edison.