'I got six kids to feed and you are going to get me fired'

originally posted by: doobydoll

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: doobydoll

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: doobydoll

originally posted by: stirling
The simple truth is that evil triumphs when" good" men do nothing....
And Americans have sat on their hands so damnably long that they don't know what to do or who their friends really are any more....
Your love of money and worship of power has corrupted the very fabric of half the worlds societies....and all of your own...
When the virtually helpless fight back with something that delays annoys or disrupts your pursuit of the phoney values
and rewards the bosses hand out you get pissy.....

Then the moaning starts about how your suffering from such protests...(which are initiated on your behalf as well.....)
if protests continue to fail the oppressed............ then sooner or later ...it will be IEDs....

Which do you prefer?
Civil disobedience or IEDS?....a missed hour of work or bloody revolution?
The government is counting on all you selfish citizens...........without the likes of you this whole #mess could have been straightened out by now..........

You have it bang on the nail.

Too many people who live just for today and just for themselves, only their lives matter, they refuse to look further than the end of their beaks, and this blinkered 'i'm alright Jack so you better not rock my boat' way of life doesn't work in a society that needs some balance to function properly, or it all caves in eventually.

So give into demands or face IED's. Hmm. Sounds like extortion to me. More Brownshirt tactics.

OR, you could listen and compromise instead of blatantly ignoring them, which just adds to their frustration and anger.

How would you get others' attention if you were being ignored?

Why should I listen to extortionists, especially the spoiled college kids in the video? Just because someone thinks they are "oppressed" (and honestly those people in the video did not look oppressed at all to me) does not mean they are actually oppressed and their petulant demands do not deserve a listen especially as they don't give a rat's ass about my rights while complaining about their rights. Respect is a two way street.

They were protesting to draw attention to whatever their issues are.

I've asked repeatedly in this thread what anyone would do if they want to spread awareness to certain issues to an uninterested society - no response, just more complaining and demanding that citizens must protest quietly and unnoticed and in in a way that draws no attention from a single soul, and achieves nothing. It's comical.

I don't care what their issues are, I neither agree nor disagree with the details, but I will always defend anyone's right to peacefully protest, which is what happened here.

First of all, blocking traffic and intimidating people and restricting them from moving are not "peaceful" actions.

Secondly, there are protests in public spaces that did bring about attention and change. The Tea Party, agree with them or not, marched on DC and many cities in public areas without looting, destroying, blocking traffic, or leaving a huge mess. They brought about a HUGE amount of awareness for their cause. This crap is not about raising awareness, it is about, as described quite well by ALinsky and used quite well by the Brownshirts before him, to intimidate and force people to their will.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: doobydoll

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: doobydoll

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: doobydoll

originally posted by: stirling
The simple truth is that evil triumphs when" good" men do nothing....
And Americans have sat on their hands so damnably long that they don't know what to do or who their friends really are any more....
Your love of money and worship of power has corrupted the very fabric of half the worlds societies....and all of your own...
When the virtually helpless fight back with something that delays annoys or disrupts your pursuit of the phoney values
and rewards the bosses hand out you get pissy.....

Then the moaning starts about how your suffering from such protests...(which are initiated on your behalf as well.....)
if protests continue to fail the oppressed............ then sooner or later ...it will be IEDs....

Which do you prefer?
Civil disobedience or IEDS?....a missed hour of work or bloody revolution?
The government is counting on all you selfish citizens...........without the likes of you this whole #mess could have been straightened out by now..........

You have it bang on the nail.

Too many people who live just for today and just for themselves, only their lives matter, they refuse to look further than the end of their beaks, and this blinkered 'i'm alright Jack so you better not rock my boat' way of life doesn't work in a society that needs some balance to function properly, or it all caves in eventually.

So give into demands or face IED's. Hmm. Sounds like extortion to me. More Brownshirt tactics.

OR, you could listen and compromise instead of blatantly ignoring them, which just adds to their frustration and anger.

How would you get others' attention if you were being ignored?

Why should I listen to extortionists, especially the spoiled college kids in the video? Just because someone thinks they are "oppressed" (and honestly those people in the video did not look oppressed at all to me) does not mean they are actually oppressed and their petulant demands do not deserve a listen especially as they don't give a rat's ass about my rights while complaining about their rights. Respect is a two way street.

They were protesting to draw attention to whatever their issues are.

I've asked repeatedly in this thread what anyone would do if they want to spread awareness to certain issues to an uninterested society - no response, just more complaining and demanding that citizens must protest quietly and unnoticed and in in a way that draws no attention from a single soul, and achieves nothing. It's comical.

I don't care what their issues are, I neither agree nor disagree with the details, but I will always defend anyone's right to peacefully protest, which is what happened here.

First of all, blocking traffic and intimidating people and restricting them from moving are not "peaceful" actions.

Secondly, there are protests in public spaces that did bring about attention and change. The Tea Party, agree with them or not, marched on DC and many cities in public areas without looting, destroying, blocking traffic, or leaving a huge mess. They brought about a HUGE amount of awareness for their cause. This crap is not about raising awareness, it is about, as described quite well by ALinsky and used quite well by the Brownshirts before him, to intimidate and force people to their will.

A load of bovine faeces.

These people were peaceful, they neither hurt nor intimidated anyone, and neither destroyed nor looted anything. They delayed a bit of traffic for a few minutes, the world hasn't ended because of it.

You keep banging on about 'brownshirts', it means nothing to me - I saw a few people protesting, simple as that. You saw something else because you want to.

See it for what it is man, a peaceful protest.

a reply to: doobydoll

So if someone is late to work and gets fired, that isn't causing them harm?

Your right to protest peacefully ends when you start impeding someone else's right to simply go about their business, especially when their business has absolutely jack all to do with what you're protesting.

If you want to protest police brutality and an unjust justice system, why aren't you blocking the doors of the police department or the courthouse? Nope you have to be blocking the local freeway where every Tom, Dick and Harry who have nothing to do with you and your grievance with the police and the justice system must be made party to it in a most unpleasant way. If you want to win friends and influence people, causing them to be late and possibly jeopardize their jobs and livelihoods isn't the way to go about it whether or not you think you have the right to do it.

for anyone who doesn't know who saul alinsky is, here's a video that explains what his methods and ideas have been, how they were implemented in the past and who his supporters are that are currently in the high end of politics. there were several videos about him but most of them tended to be disjointed or less than historical in context. the speaker in this case is a conservative from chicago, who apparently didn't win when he ran for office (i can't imagine why). what i appreciated about it, was his fairly thorough explanation of how the premise works and how it is employed and under what type of ethical construct.

originally posted by: doobydoll

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: doobydoll

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: doobydoll

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: doobydoll

originally posted by: stirling
The simple truth is that evil triumphs when" good" men do nothing....
And Americans have sat on their hands so damnably long that they don't know what to do or who their friends really are any more....
Your love of money and worship of power has corrupted the very fabric of half the worlds societies....and all of your own...
When the virtually helpless fight back with something that delays annoys or disrupts your pursuit of the phoney values
and rewards the bosses hand out you get pissy.....

Then the moaning starts about how your suffering from such protests...(which are initiated on your behalf as well.....)
if protests continue to fail the oppressed............ then sooner or later ...it will be IEDs....

Which do you prefer?
Civil disobedience or IEDS?....a missed hour of work or bloody revolution?
The government is counting on all you selfish citizens...........without the likes of you this whole #mess could have been straightened out by now..........

You have it bang on the nail.

Too many people who live just for today and just for themselves, only their lives matter, they refuse to look further than the end of their beaks, and this blinkered 'i'm alright Jack so you better not rock my boat' way of life doesn't work in a society that needs some balance to function properly, or it all caves in eventually.

So give into demands or face IED's. Hmm. Sounds like extortion to me. More Brownshirt tactics.

OR, you could listen and compromise instead of blatantly ignoring them, which just adds to their frustration and anger.

How would you get others' attention if you were being ignored?

Why should I listen to extortionists, especially the spoiled college kids in the video? Just because someone thinks they are "oppressed" (and honestly those people in the video did not look oppressed at all to me) does not mean they are actually oppressed and their petulant demands do not deserve a listen especially as they don't give a rat's ass about my rights while complaining about their rights. Respect is a two way street.

They were protesting to draw attention to whatever their issues are.

I've asked repeatedly in this thread what anyone would do if they want to spread awareness to certain issues to an uninterested society - no response, just more complaining and demanding that citizens must protest quietly and unnoticed and in in a way that draws no attention from a single soul, and achieves nothing. It's comical.

I don't care what their issues are, I neither agree nor disagree with the details, but I will always defend anyone's right to peacefully protest, which is what happened here.

First of all, blocking traffic and intimidating people and restricting them from moving are not "peaceful" actions.

Secondly, there are protests in public spaces that did bring about attention and change. The Tea Party, agree with them or not, marched on DC and many cities in public areas without looting, destroying, blocking traffic, or leaving a huge mess. They brought about a HUGE amount of awareness for their cause. This crap is not about raising awareness, it is about, as described quite well by ALinsky and used quite well by the Brownshirts before him, to intimidate and force people to their will.

A load of bovine faeces.

These people were peaceful, they neither hurt nor intimidated anyone, and neither destroyed nor looted anything. They delayed a bit of traffic for a few minutes, the world hasn't ended because of it.

You keep banging on about 'brownshirts', it means nothing to me - I saw a few people protesting, simple as that. You saw something else because you want to.

See it for what it is man, a peaceful protest.

If I stop you. If I hold you from moving about your business. If I restrain you. If I prevent your peaceable travel from one place to another, that is not peaceful.

a reply to: NavyDoc

well they did say,
no justice
no peace

a reply to: undo

The women in the red dress is symbolic of the temptation to justify being apart of the system which enslaves us. She is what is tempting about the system and she is the system.

My kid's are starving, so I need to ...
My granny's dieing, so I need to ...
I want that new phone, so I need to ...

If I don't ..., then I will die.

Would you steal from someone, if your kids are starving? Would you work for someone who steals from others, because you're starving? Would you work for he who enslaves your brother?

Basically, if you enable the system, then you are saying that you need to ...

be apart of the system / be tempted by the woman in the red dress.

But don't get me wrong, I wasn’t trying to tell anyone that they should be this or that, I was just trying to show them the parallel to the woman in the red dress - that temptation that they use to justify being apart of the system.

Was just an odd thought that came to mind.

a reply to: Bleeeeep

i got the reference, immediately. theorizing on the philosophical meanings of the film, the matrix, is a fun thing to do. have my own version of how neo represents jesus as the systemic anomalie that must overwrite the architect (who represents satan, a being who's job of protecting the mainframe from any potential viruses (as the covering cherub) has made access to the mainframe literally impossible, by any other programs. his criteria are impossible to get past, so the systemic anomalie is actually created by the mainframe (neo/jesus) to reconnect with the population of the matrix to mainframe. neo/jesus does this with a random access password logarithm based on his name. yeah, you can make the themes in that movie, into so many different interesting analogies.

where i think ya dropped the ball on the reference is, the suffering of others must be demonstrated by making others suffer. not because those others have anything to do with the actual offense for which the demonstration is being staged, but because the end game goal is all that matters. nothing else. and what is the end game?

a reply to: undo

To free the people stuck in the system, without getting yourself done in by them. If they are not free then they are your potential enemy, or however the line went.

Where I think you dropped the ball is by believing that there was anyone on that freeway who was not apart of the system.

And that is the parallel that I see...

The protesters were trying to free the woman in the red dress and she morphed into an agent.

They got tempted. They fell into the trap, so to speak.

originally posted by: Bleeeeep
a reply to: undo

To free the people stuck in the system, without getting yourself done in by them. If they are not free then they are your potential enemy, or however the line went.

Where I think you dropped the ball is by believing that there was anyone on that freeway who was not apart of the system.

And that is the parallel that I see...

The protesters were trying to free the woman in the red dress and she morphed into an agent.

that would suggest that being alive and wanting to eat, have shelter and so forth, by your own energy, is somehow a flawed concept, totally removed from reality and that in reality, it is much better to make someone else do it for you and get mad at them if they don't (even if one of the reasons is, that you've made it impossible for them to do so. to me, that makes your idea sound more like the architect, rather than neo.

a reply to: undo

Or you could start a commune or whatever ... live off the grind (Zion)

and just hack into the matrix (go into the system) in order to wake people up.

The protesters were Neo getting caught by the woman in the red dress morphing into the agent.

Tell me you don't see the parallel?

Now if you're asking me what I would do, well you shouldn't... I may be the antichrist for all you know. You don't want to do what I do, you want to do what is right. Right?

originally posted by: Bleeeeep
a reply to: undo

Or you could start a commune or whatever ... live off the grind (Zion)

and just hack into the matrix (go into the system) in order to wake people up.

The protesters were Neo getting caught by the woman in the red dress morphing into the agent.

Tell me you don't see the parallel?

Now if you're asking me what I would do, well you shouldn't... I may be the antichrist for all you know. You don't want to do what I do, you want to do what is right. Right?

i did see the parallel but are you saying that the only way to live is in a commune? and that that should be a global construct to prove you aren't "enslaved" to the system? do you realize since the rise of the IRS, poor people have been benefiting from the labor of those people you called the lady in the red dress? (not very well mind you but that's because the mommies and daddies of the protestors skim huge sums off the top first, then blame the people you called the lady in the red dress, that there's still not enough to help the poor. if red lady people are helplessly enured by the system, it's the same system that was created by the protestors, who think we should all be helplessly enslaved to the system. that's their end game. and any time they want more, they just accuse us of some other thing we aren't doing good enough. accusation after accusation to the point of total impossible resolution. further and further down the hole.

a reply to: undo

I am not saying the only way to live is anything - you have to choose for yourself.

Honestly, I think we're all guilty; and still the argument is solid: if you enable the system, you are the system.

Who do you want the protesters to be? The hopeless inured or Neo with his hand caught in the cookie jar? Aren't both character actions wrong, and being warned against?

originally posted by: Bleeeeep
a reply to: undo

I am not saying the only way to live is anything - you have to choose for yourself.

Honestly, I think we're all guilty; and still the argument is solid: if you enable the system, you are the system.

Who do you want the protesters to be? The hopeless inured or Neo with his hand caught in the cookie jar? Aren't both character actions wrong, and being warned against?

well there's one way to get around the system, and that is to just ignore the guys who are trying to manipulate all this and try to help the inner city poor, on our own. problem is, they are being told not to accept anything from us because we are the lady in the red dress. meanwhile, the real lady in the red dress who is robbing us all blind and blaming the whole thing on us, is actually leading them straight into a future where there are no more people who care about them. all that will be left are agent smiths and architects and a whole bunch of hopelessly poor people.

black people destroyed detroit

originally posted by: Bleeeeep
a reply to: undo

The women in the red dress is symbolic of the temptation to justify being apart of the system which enslaves us. She is what is tempting about the system and she is the system.

My kid's are starving, so I need to ...
My granny's dieing, so I need to ...
I want that new phone, so I need to ...

If I don't ..., then I will die.

Would you steal from someone, if your kids are starving? Would you work for someone who steals from others, because you're starving? Would you work for he who enslaves your brother?

Basically, if you enable the system, then you are saying that you need to ...

be apart of the system / be tempted by the woman in the red dress.

But don't get me wrong, I wasn’t trying to tell anyone that they should be this or that, I was just trying to show them the parallel to the woman in the red dress - that temptation that they use to justify being apart of the system.

Was just an odd thought that came to mind.

Yes, this is a great metaphor. The woman in the red dress.

Only the system isn't the political system. Or the economic system.

You hit the nail on the head.

It's the belief system that the external world is where your happiness comes from.

It's not.

Go watch The Matrix again.

"The Matrix" we all been programmed to live in is that we are at the mercy of an external world that we can't control to be happy.

You've taken this down the rabbit hole, so follow it!

originally posted by: Mousygretchen
black people destroyed detroit

no, the companies who supported the bolshevik revolution (ford motor company and so forth), destroyed detroit. they sapped it for all it was worth, and then skipped the country at the first chance, then blamed the fall out on the tax payers, who they also blamed for not supporting the unions (eye roll considering the tax payers were the unions biggest supporters in detroit). i keep telling people but nobody is listening, everyone is being played by some extremely mean people. and they excel at blaming their nefarious activities on everybody but them.

watch this

These imbeciles are not gaining any allies by playing around with people's livelihood. Their actions are counter productive to their cause, but they are too blind and ignorant to realize it. You can't fix stupid. ~$heopleNation

a reply to: Jamie1

I choose many different vantage points in any view, there are always two sides to every story, I also know how to play devils advocate, but the truth is, you see things from your own experiences as all people do, no matter how much they think they can pry themselves from those molds.

I just can't find myself getting so emotional about one cause, I never really respond much to these protestor threads, but I kept seeing your popping up with such passion and it was an irresistible target for my own folly and to get at least one more side of out, but if you don't see the set up, and that protestors in the middle of the highway the only thing we have to be worried about, then maybe you do not fear big brother, the police state, but you fear protesters or someone that is merely attempting to not draw attention themselves as individuals, but the deeper issues that will be brought to bear that might become a problem for all people regardless of color.

a reply to: Jamie1

They spell it out for you...

Coppertop.