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Atlantis' Legendary Metal, Orichalcum, Discovered in 2,600 Year-old Shipwreck

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posted on Jan, 7 2015 @ 01:23 PM
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Have we ever found any other metal in "inget" form to compare the practice too? Was this a standard way to carry metal or was this shaped for a purpose?




posted on Jan, 7 2015 @ 08:01 PM
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a reply to: deadeyedick

Yes, it would have been a normal way for metal to have been sold/transported.



posted on Jan, 7 2015 @ 11:15 PM
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Ah! So Orcish armor and weaponry is now possible. Let us go smithing, then!



Seriously, I was of the understanding that Orichalcum was just copper smelted with Zinc-Oxide...



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 05:19 AM
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"the Temple to Poseidon and Cleito on Atlantis were clad respectively with brass, tin, and the third, which encompassed the whole citadel, "flashed with the red light of orichalcum".

Clearly this material is not red, secondly brass was used on the first wall not the 3rd wall so thumbs down from me



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 07:35 AM
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originally posted by: rowanflame
"the Temple to Poseidon and Cleito on Atlantis were clad respectively with brass, tin, and the third, which encompassed the whole citadel, "flashed with the red light of orichalcum".

Clearly this material is not red, secondly brass was used on the first wall not the 3rd wall so thumbs down from me



Some alloys of Brass are quite reddish in appearance though.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 07:39 AM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Painterz


In the 4th century BC Plato knew oreichalkos as rare and nearly as valuable as gold[48]


This is a reference to the description of Atlantis from Critias 116 (source):

"Now the island and the circles and the bridge, which was a plethrum in breadth, they encompassed round about, on this side and on that, with a wall of stone; and upon the bridges on each side, over against the passages for the sea, they erected towers and gates. And the stone they quarried beneath the central island all round, and from beneath the outer and inner circles, some of it being white, some black and some red; and while quarrying it they constructed two inner docks, hollowed out and roofed over by the native rock. And of the buildings some they framed of one simple color, in others they wove a pattern of many colors by blending the stones for the sake of ornament so as to confer upon the buildings a natural charm. And they covered with brass, as though with plaster, all the circumference of the wall which surrounded the outermost circle; and that of the inner one they coated with tin; and that which encompassed the acropolis itself with orichalcum which sparkled like fire."

Clearly Plato is referring to orichalcum as a metal that is distinct from the brass known to Greeks of his time. The shipwreck predates Plato by 100-200 years or so. Brass is a general term for any alloy of predominately copper and zinc but the specific composition is of critical importance. It could be that the composition of the brass from a certain area led to particularly favorable properties for ornamentation.

The point here is that it's entirely plausible that the ingots are of the metal Plato was referring to and that doesn't necessitate the existence of a sunken continent. On the other hand, it could point to the existence of a real place that was (at least in some part) the basis for Plato's description.




Your argument is flawed unless you compare the original greek text (in greek).

Since brass is orichalceum in Greek, its impossible that the English translation can correctly state both brass and orichalceum. Either a different word for brass (orichalceum) is used and its not brass, or orichalceum refer to brass. If Plato put in orichalceum for an "unknown" and "mysterious" metal... then why use the Greek word for brass? He could have just stated it was a metal.
edit on 8-1-2015 by merka because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 09:35 AM
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originally posted by: Painterz

originally posted by: rowanflame
"the Temple to Poseidon and Cleito on Atlantis were clad respectively with brass, tin, and the third, which encompassed the whole citadel, "flashed with the red light of orichalcum".

Clearly this material is not red, secondly brass was used on the first wall not the 3rd wall so thumbs down from me



Some alloys of Brass are quite reddish in appearance though.

They would have said the first and inner 3rd wall was clad in brass then!

the fact that two different names was given to the metal on the first and inner wall suggests that this orichalcum was not brass.

Personally I think orichalcum is what we call Celtic or Rose gold, a mixture of copper, silver and gold.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 09:38 AM
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a reply to: merka

A different word is used for both. I don't know Greek, but using the original text and side by side translation from the Tufts link I provided, I was able to pick out the words:

χαλκῷ - this is what was translated to brass though I've read that it (chalkós) should actually be translated as "copper"
ὀρειχάλκῳ - here is the orichalcum (oreichalkós) which may be translated "mountain copper" (there is debate over this too)



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:12 AM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: deadeyedick



Yes, it would have been a normal way for metal to have been sold/transported.

Thanks so have you seen other examples of ancients ingets similar to these?



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 10:43 AM
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a reply to: deadeyedick

I don't know if anyone has seen ingots exactly like these — particularly in terms of composition — but I know that metal was smelted into ingots going back further than 2,600 years ago. If you check out the Wikipedia page for "ingot" you'll see some examples of ancient ingots of various metals from the Chinese, Romans and Crete (not indicated if it was the Minoans or later). You may also recall from last year that there was some publicity regarding the controversial use of lead ingots from 2,000 year-old Roman shipwrecks by the CDMS dark matter project and the CUORE neutrino observatory.
edit on 2015-1-8 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 11:20 AM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

Yea my spelling skills were off a bit. lol

So this particular shape is likely to be used for a specific function based on the wiki you pointed me too. This shape seems to be out of context so to speak when looking at examples of other known ingots. I think the battery idea holds some chance of being correct. At the least we are left with the thought that this shape was givin to the metal for a purpose other than delivery method. At this point one idea is as good as another and i do not buy all the thought that they discovered electric energy but never went any further with the technology.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 01:01 PM
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originally posted by: James1982
All the advanced technology Atlantis was supposed to have and they never figured out how to smelt iron? Either this isn't the mythical metal, or Atlantis was just another primitive culture by our standards, but more advanced to the people that observed it.


That last statement is what, if Atlantis was ever real, will turn out to be true.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 01:56 PM
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originally posted by: peter vlar

originally posted by: St Udio

what struck me right-off-the-bat

these 'ingots' look very similar to the metal rods used in those Egyptian & Baghdad 'batteries' from antiquity


Except the rods in the Baghdad "batteries" were Iron inside a copper cylinder not bronze. As far as alloys go, bronze is subject to rapid corrosion in many different environments, an acidic one is not conducive to a lengthy lifespan making the alloy rather unsuitable for the purpose of a battery.


perhaps the shipment were components for battery's which might produce light for the Artisans of the era
instead of being metal ingots of a rare Earth mineral/metal used in that port city to artistically create fine crafted metal ornaments/coins/art work in the many workshops or studios, mints...


It's a nice thought but aside from the issues with the alloy alone, these weren't actually batteries. You could, with a little reworking, get a charge out of them but you would have to piggyback several of them to attain anything period let alone a useful amount of electricity. But again, to do so required modifying the "battery" from its original configuration. All metal parts were capped in asphalt making it impossible to connect it to anything. And then the lack of illuminating implements(I.E. Light bulbs) throws another kink in the chain. The initial research thought that it was a battery used for electroplating and attributed the device to the Parthians but when the materials were actually dated , they were found to be several hundred years older and very closely resembled other artifacts left by the Sassanians. Long story short... You will get a larger electrical charge by sticking a piece of conductive metal into a lemon than you would from these at pots. The boring truth of it is that they were used for storing papyrus scrolls. The scroll was wrapped around the iron rod, placed inside the cooper cylinder which was then aced inside the clay pot and sealed with asphalt for long term storage.


Hi Peter V,
When one takes these two facts into account, copper and it's oxides are toxic to molds and mildews, and when iron oxidizes in a sealed container it will absorb whatever moisture is in said container, the Baghdad batteries are excellent containers for long term storage of paper scrolls.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 07:26 PM
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When reading articles about the missing plane mh370 i found an article about a company named geo resonance who can scan for different types of metals using a spectral images from an airborne source.

www.georesonance.com...

I wonder if they could get the composition of orichalcum and scan for large deposits, this would give us a clue where to look for atlantis.



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 07:48 PM
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This can't be real Oricalcum as there weren't any crazy supernatural events mentioned in the article.. Or any Nazis.. (Sorry.. Indiana Jones reference..)

That aside.. Great post.. However, if this is actually Oricalcum then it's a little bit of a let down if you were expecting some kind of mystery super metal..

I'll get me coat anyway.. S&F



posted on Jan, 8 2015 @ 09:44 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

Sad thing is, there is absolutely no evidence the ingots are connected to Atlantis.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 11:28 AM
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Since the ingots are just brass, I don't see what the big mystery is. I suppose thousands of years ago, metal alloys might have seemed mysterious, but since they can only be composed of the various elements, they are easily explained today.
a reply to: theantediluvian



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 12:46 PM
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a reply to: Parthin

The mystery has always been what are the ancients referring to.

The earliest surviving mention of orichalcum is from a hymn dedicated to Aphrodite, written c. 630 BC by the Greek poet Hesiod (source):

They clothed her with heavenly garments: on her head they put a fine, well-wrought crown of gold, and in her pierced ears they hung ornaments of orichalc and precious gold


The Atlantis link to orichalcum comes from Plato in Critias, written c. 360 BC. (source):


In the first place, they dug out of the earth whatever was to be found there, solid as well as fusile, and that which is now only a name and was then something more than a name, orichalcum, was dug out of the earth in many parts of the island, being more precious in those days than anything except gold.


Here it is described as being abundant in Atlantis, second in value only to gold and perhaps most importantly, something that is known only in name by Plato's time.


The entire circuit of the wall, which went round the outermost zone, they covered with a coating of brass, and the circuit of the next wall they coated with tin, and the third, which encompassed the citadel, flashed with the red light of orichalcum.


Here we see it described as having a red hue. It's also important to note that along with gold and silver, two distinct metals are mentioned by Plato. In the above translation, the word χαλκῷ (chalkós) is translated as "brass" and ὀρειχάλκῳ (oreichalkós) as orichalcum. It seems likely to me that what is actually being referred to here is copper and brass. There are two more occurrences of the term in Critias:


All the outside of the temple, with the exception of the pinnacles, they covered with silver, and the pinnacles with gold. In the interior of the temple the roof was of ivory, curiously wrought everywhere with gold and silver and orichalcum; and all the other parts, the walls and pillars and floor, they coated with orichalcum.


These were inscribed by the first kings on a pillar of orichalcum, which was situated in the middle of the island, at the temple of Poseidon


The important thing is that when this written, Plato considered orichalcum to no longer exist while various forms of brass and other golden-hued alloys did. In the 1st century AD, Pliny the Elder mentions "aurichalcum" (Latin for "golden copper") in
Natural History, Book 34, chapter 2 (source):


In Cyprus, where copper was first discovered, it is also procured from another stone, which is called “chalcitis.” This, however, was afterwards considered of little value, a better kind having been found in other regions, especially that called “aurichalcum,” which was long in high request, on account of [p. 6149] its excellent quality; but none of it has been found for this long time, the earth having been quite exhausted


Where things get really confusing is that later the Romans used the words orichalcum/aurichalcum to refer to the metal used to make the sestertius and dupondius coins which are alternatively described even now as being either brass or bronze (wikipedia says brass, a host of ancient coin dealer sites say bronze).

It's quite a mess as there are some other descriptions from antiquity that are difficult to reconcile, particularly in terms of color, and numerous possible mentions — not to mention the fact that sources like Plato and Pliny the Elder are describing a metal that they'd never laid eyes on and of course the later usage of the name for commonplace metals.

There are even hypothesis that it wasn't a metal at all but rather amber or some sort of clay containing mica. Then there's the physics professor who thinks that it originated in the Peruvian Andes and was discovered by the Greeks through trans-oceanic contact more than a thousand years before Columbus.

UGH.

I think where the recent discovery was going was that the ingots are of a brass that hasn't been seen before and it's from a shipwreck a couple hundred years before Plato's time and given the area, it could actually be the metal that he was referring to.
edit on 2015-1-9 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 12:49 PM
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Wasn't there information about copper being used that was stronger than steel with a special method?



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 01:29 PM
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originally posted by: James1982
Compared to Iron/steel, brass is a pretty crappy material for Armor or weapons. If there was supposed to be some mythical metal coming from atlantis, I seriously doubt it was this Brass found. All the advanced technology Atlantis was supposed to have and they never figured out how to smelt iron? Either this isn't the mythical metal, or Atlantis was just another primitive culture by our standards, but more advanced to the people that observed it.

Or it didn't exist.

I'll remind you that Plato, the only source material for Atlantean tales, clearly states they had orichalcum, not iron.

And, according to Plato (again, the only source,) Atlantis was a Bronze-Age culture.

So, yeah, even if they had existed (which they didn't,) they would have been "just another primitive culture by our standards" and no more advanced that the people that observed them, according to (again) the only source.

Harte







 
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