Origin of the Species: The Greys - An Astrobiological Analysis of a Familiar ET Stereotype

That is a FASCINATING layout I wish you had gotten to the point with out the inessessary PREAMBLE,but the OTHER idea is they are bodies that are synthetic and driven like AVATARS instead of the original being .That would more fit the biology of a grey I think.

originally posted by: Specimen
Great thread attempting to break down the actual "Grey", where as I usually find the usually guesses, that they could be their own species, evolved from a simpler creature, to being human time travelers who screwed around with nature too much, or somehow being artificial in their origins serving a specific purpose, where as their makers were us or something else.

Personally, I'd find it somewhat more comforting that the grey belonged to their own tree, where as they went through similar walks of life that we are going to go through. And that way their existence won't seem so mind boggling compared to other things or would be possibilities.

Thank you.

I agree. If Greys existed it would be remarkable to be able to perhaps learn about their distant past because for us their distant past could very well be our near future.

There is one thing I'm wondering about in their physiology, and its how they would be able to come down to our planet and move about with quick reflexes.

Imagine a SuperEarth that is either entirely covered in an ocean with only a few small to moderate sized land masses -OR- an "Eyeball Earth" with a small band of habitability where it is not too cold or too hot.

In either of these scenarios the Grey's ancestral species would have had to think fast because competition for food sources, resources, even habitable land itself would be FIERCE.

It would make the jungle and savanna our ancestors came down from the trees to inhabit seem like a picnic.

Where its commonly believed that they are much weaker then the standard human due to adapting through generations of being exposed to the zero gravity of space, but if that were the case, they would be crushed or hinder by our environment and would be better off staying in their vehicles.

True. And perhaps that is why most of the UFO literature only refers to either a) dead greys whose bodies are ejected from crashed aircraft/spacecraft b) dead greys whose bodies are being stored or examined in government facilities or c) live greys in the environment of their spacecraft d) greys which appear to move more by "gliding" or floating" in abduction accounts.

Not that I believe any of it but it is food for thought perhaps in support of such stories.

Another interesting possibility I've been thinking about is their technology, and how it could be connected to neural commands or thoughts for example. The more science understands our make up and the designs in nature become understood, the more it kind of seems like live is a bio-chemical automation, while advanced technology would seem more like it could possibly be inter connected with life or it organic motor functions. Although this could bring about problems with the natural order of things, where it believed that the Grey(or Future Humans) could of went to far with such an idea, and attempted to forget the fatality of mortal flesh, where as it brought about the Grey current appearance or doomed fate for that matter in a quantum believe of sorts.

Exactly. Transhumanism is real and I do not doubt at all that it lay in our future. How soon that future is is up for debate but I believe it is probably inevitable.

There's more information on this topic at the excellent site for Humanity+ and H+ Magazine.

Where all the different fields of science mastered and united, ranging from nanotechnology to genetic manipulation could of been once believed to improve the existence of life and making it more comfortable.

There have been a few times in our history where multiple fields of science such as material sciences, chemistry, physics, etc all worked feverously towards one goal. Unfortunately they all involve wars and weapons development. ie: The Nazi's developing jet aircraft and advanced rocketry and the USA developing the atomic bomb.

Sad thing is, is that Nature could only put up with such a thing for so long till something gives, where the genes don't get no exercise and is some how suffocating. And that such a thing is why they come here for genetic material to possibly maintain their existence or survival, or so the believe.

I don't buy the idea that such beings would need anyone elses genetic material. Not least of which because their whole gene structure could likely be quite different from ours or any other life on Earth.

Again personally, i'd find it more comforting if they originated in our reality and have their own origins, where as the appearance of the Grey is rather natural instead of racial genetic experiment that went wrong to due a slothy nature such as humans or weak psychological form of life that would give life up easily. And that they are a matured, balanced biological and technological species.

Well of course. If they existed and followed the evolutionary path I outlined there would be strengths and weaknesses which we could begin to understand. All of that goes out the window when people begin talking about interdimensional beings, beings of light, spiritual beings, etc.

At that point we might as well be talking about elves and faeries.

Other then that, I'm kind of more interested in other form of life, something that even the darkest mythologies could only ponder for aeons.

Which makes one ponder, could "The Greys" not just be the latest in a long line of mythologies about beings who trick or take people away. Incubus, Succubus, Elves, Angels, Devils, Faeries, Leprechauns, etc?

I know I am not the first to pose that question, and it does make people, usually hardcore believers in alien abduction, uncomfortable to consider but it is a natural line of reasoning.

originally posted by: Norge
a reply to: JadeStar

I have read it all but save the videos as bedtime snacks.
ATS should have paid you money for making such a good tread.
One the other hand you can sell stuff like this.

I could sell stuff like this and I supposed if I were to completely flunk out of school and fail to attain a career in academia or in aerospace that the UFO lecture circuit would be a viable alternative. :-D

That said I'd rather there be more information out in the open. One problem UFOlogy has is that everything has a price tag attached.

Information in the sciences is freely shared so that people can work together on problems or critique each others work. But in UFOlogy it seems every time someone has some sort of new information to share there is a whole path towards monetization.

It kinda sleazes up the field to be honest and if I were a part of UFOlogy I'd never do that.

What is needed is a scientific journal of UFOlogy where scientific minded UFOlogists and UFOlogy open minded scientists could publish and peer review their work.

I hear the MUFON journal once tried to be that but its nothing like a proper scientific journal today.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: DJW001

Other than the fact that their huge heads would need to be filled with helium if those pencil necks are to support them

yes, good point. Its funny how the "greys" got more cartoonish over the years since Betty Hill.

Probably not the sharpest tool in the universe.

Exactly.



That's one reason I did not reference the Betty and Barney Hill aliens as Greys. They looked significantly different and I am not sure Betty Hill ever claimed the beings she saw looked like what was on the book cover of "Communion" etc.

This was the sculpture of the alien head that was done for her:



And Barney Hill's sketch looked far more human than "The Greys" are depicted as:

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
That is a FASCINATING layout I wish you had gotten to the point with out the inessessary PREAMBLE,but the OTHER idea is they are bodies that are synthetic and driven like AVATARS instead of the original being .That would more fit the biology of a grey I think.

Thanks. I guess I am just used to the style of writing scientific papers. There's often a long run up to the key takeaways so apologies for that but I wanted to build up a broad overview before diving down into the analysis.

a reply to: JadeStar

Thanks. Some of the main arguments to 'visiting in person' is:

1. Speed-of-Light travel is just too slow.

2. We need a way to open up the exploration of the Galaxy to a lot of people to 'get it done'. That means, gathering the data by having probes visit virtually 'everywhere', and then returning the data for us to review and evaluate. A few hundred people looking over an 'Encyclopedia Galactica' of habitable worlds, habitated worlds and worlds that might be worth terraforming could get a nice 'list'. We would not be wasting time going to every world in person. Too expensive, too time-consuming. After the wave of Von Neumann probes starts multiplying (self-repairing, but limited so as not to consume the Galaxy, lol) it would complete the task in a relatively modest time-frame.

Now, you might say 'don't worry about the whole Galaxy, we'll just do a 100 LY sphere and go on from there. Not out of the question. But remember, technology fails, technology improves, resources could be finite.

3. Convenience. At some point we will want to have the 'Encyclopedia Galactica' so even if we don't do the exploration that way, and perhaps technology allows FTL travel (i.e. near the speed of though?) we will construct something like that so that non-space-farers can visit 'on line'.

4. Economy. If we get a self-replicating, self-repairing, but limited Von Neumann Probe project (VNPP) started, it will 'fund' itself. We will start getting back data and can start planning.

5. Goldilocks Zones - we might find vast areas of the Galaxy too harsh (radiation), too unstable (Oort cloud bombardments), and uninhabitable (Gas giants, frozen worlds, unstable Suns). If we knew where to look before going, wouldn't that be better?

As far as wanting to signal to 'them' we are here, or for Them to signal they are ready for contact, I wouldn't expect resolution of planet-based features (like pyramids). I'd look for Ring Worlds, Dyson Spheres, and other large-scale space-based things.

Good discussion.

a reply to: JadeStar

Sad thing is, is that Nature could only put up with such a thing for so long till something gives, where the genes don't get no exercise and is some how suffocating. And that such a thing is why they come here for genetic material to possibly maintain their existence or survival, or so the believe.

Reply by JadeStar
I don't buy the idea that such beings would need anyone elses genetic material. Not least of which because their whole gene structure could likely be quite different from ours or any other life on Earth.

I agree on that idea also, that they wouldn't need genetic material from another source, I mean it just doesn't seem acceptable, especially with the idea that they could superior in general and possibly would expected such an event. Like some breakdown in their genetics due to carelessness or a lack of grooming for that matter like a hereditary disease.

Where the popular idea of messing with genetics where a babies appearances could of been decided while still being unborn, or that the race becomes reliable on a certain genetic from alpha members of the species. It just doesn't work, it would of been like Genghis Khan mating with every women on the earth, and the species died from inter-beeding, in a radical dumb*ss way.

As for genetics, having a role quantum entanglement, I guess time could only tell.

And the others I was mentioning about, well I think they go with the realm of dreams and nightmares.

originally posted by: DarthFazer
By George I think you may have solved the age old question ... bravo !

This is by far the best hypothesis ive ever read on the Greys. And ive been quite the guru for years on abduction's for reasons I wont get in to. But it is quite consistent with what abductees , researchers have said in regards to the physiological aspects of these beings in question.

Thank you.

Like I said, I don't believe much of the abduction reports, etc but I thought it would be a great mental exercise to take a critical look at this aspect of UFOlogy to see if it even made astrobiological sense.

I was kind of surprised when it did.

I would love for someone like Chase Klotzke to take an opposite view and pose a skeptical argument against UFOs being evidence of extraterrestrial, time travelling or interdimensional beings.

I think it would be great fun and sharpen both of our reasoning to debate this subject from opposing viewpoints than the ones we actually hold.

This is -routinely- done in science for good reason. It sharpens the mind.

It is said these EBE's are cetian in origin.

One would then wonder why there are no reports of Dolphins being abducted or dolphins being in a tank when humans report abduction. Wouldn't they after all have more of a kinship with the intelligent species most closely related to them? :-D

It is also said they use lenses to cover those huge almond shaped eyes. I too have speculated they evolved from a ocean planet. Explains the dolphin like skin. They are spose to have 4 brain hemispheres as oppoeed to the two of humans. And they allegedly injest food through rubbing enzymes on the skin but of course this comes from ufo lore and rumour. And maybe this is why USO's are seen under water assuming they are more at home in our oceans and may have taken up residence deep In our seas and canyons undeteced.

Well I see nothing which could rule any of that out and in fact I can think of many things which would cause that type of evolution.

That of course make any of it true but it is also not impossible either.

The Hills were told by these beings they came from Zeta Reticuli

This is actually incorrect.

They were not told where they came from. Betty Hill was shown a 3D projected map which she interpreted as a star map. She drew it and Marjorie Fish who worked at Oak Ridge National Laboratory constructed 17 models of various assortments of nearby stars using the Gliese catalog back in the 1960s.

She found a correlation with Zeta Reticuli, 82 Eridani, Alpha Mensae, Tau Ceti and other nearby sunlike stars BUT she omitted the much more numerous M-type red dwarf stars which at the time were thought to be impossible to have habitable planets.

In my research a SuperEarth revolving around a nearby M-type red dwarf would seem the most likely place of origin if the Greys really were an real extraterrestrial species visiting Earth.

Marjorie did great work but she selected out the most common type of star in our galaxy and in our backyard because the science of the time seemed to rule them out as places of origin.

but to my knowledge there are no such super earth like planets that have been detected in that region ( yet ) ?

Not yet BUT both stars Zeta Reticuli ARE on the list of stars for both the Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite Mission and the European PLATO missions as well as many ground based planet searches such as HARPS-South.

I also read somewhere that greys come from the betelgeuse constellation near orion.

I am not surprised. Like Sirius, Betelgeuse is a very bright star which has been part of myth and pop culture for a long time.

What would be more interesting for me would be for someone to claim an alien species were visiting from some dim or obscure star to the general public like "Upsilon Andromedae", "Gliese 229" or "HD 40307".

Again I will never know but you pointed out some great suspects. You surely have a bright future OP thanks for your research. This topic needs more people like you at the helm.

- DF

Thank you. It was a lot of fun to work on.

originally posted by: DarthFazer

originally posted by: Indigent
Awesome thread I will read it all when I'm not on an iPad and can do more but, you say at some point grays are smaller than humans Possibly due to they originating from higher gravity planets. How does this works?

Did earth had lower gravity before in the times of the dinosaurs that allowed creatures to grow bigger, or was it just a different atmospheric composition that made this possible?

www.sciencedaily.com...

I would think higher gravity demands more bone density to support the structure, not the other way around, so yeah they would be smaller perhaps, but not fragil.

Actually to my knowledge it was due to the higher levels of oxygen in our atmosphere it was significantly higher hence larger life forms that goes for insects and flora too.

Correct! Star for you for knowing this fact.

More oxygen and more food sources meant mega fauna. Everything was bigger.

originally posted by: Cerdofuego
Congratulations on posting the most insightful, comprehensive and scientifically valid thread I've ever seen here on ATS. I'm myself used to a academic way of thinking and presenting evidence and this site (in spite of all the good intentions) sometimes seems to lack these elements. Your thread more than made up for that though. It is great to see highly educated people like yourself freely sharing knowledge mostly trapped in (paid for) scientific papers.

Thank you.

Well I think an educated and informed public is better for science over all. We all want your support. We have amazing ideas and lines of research which at some point need funding and if more people were aware of it then they would be more apt to support it.

So its is natural that it might be wise to approach those who think the aliens are already here to interest them in ongoing scientific interest into the places they might call home (assuming they existed at all).

There is a so far unfunded mission for example which will use a flower shaped starshade to take images of nearby Earths. From that we will be able to clearly learn if anything is alive on them by analyzing the light we receive from them.

From the conference this week:



And for a general overview of what a scientific conference like the AAS meetings are like check this out:

Especially with an important subject such as this, there can't be enough scientific "coolheadedness" to bring fact to fantasy. Thanks again for giving me something to read and think about the next couple of days and I've got a strong feeling your thread is going to be a classic on this site. S&F!!

Thanks again. Like I said, we live in a new golden age of discovery. Expect more exciting discoveries from the areas of astrobiology and astronomy in general over the next couple of decades. I hope I will still have time to share them with you on ATS before the MSM gets wind of them.

I tend to speculate...that the "Gray" male and female species have a single opening [cloaca,] used for reproduction and excretion --- that is present in many animal species here on earth --- and in our former dinosaurs.

originally posted by: Erno86
a reply to: JadeStar

In relation to my last post: Three fingers...one of which would be partially opposed.

Are intelligent humanoids --- us --- destined to evolve?

We're evolving right now. Evolution doesn't take a holiday. :-) Evolution of course plays out over long stretches of time though.

Can you postulate or speculate on the theory that if a bipedal warm blooded dinosaur had a chance to evolve into something of a likeness of a Troodon dinosauroid --- would it be destined to evolve [given the proper environmental conditions] --- into a highly intelligent race?

Well we are still learning a lot about both the intelligence capacity of the dinosaurs as well as the development of intelligence in mammals and humans in particular so I would be really just guessing here but if it was advantageous for such a dinosaur to develop intelligence to outwit opponents, find food, nurture young in an environment with stressors pushing it that way then yes, given enough time such a dinosaur could become intelligent in the sense of being high on the EQ scale I posted.

It should be noted that the dinos had a lot longer time than us to develop intelligence and we have no evidence that they developed it or were going to develop it ever. '

For instance, sharks have been around for millions of years but dolphins are more intelligent than they are and appear to have a language. Same environment but totally different outcomes given almost the same amount of time.

Given the fact that dinosaurs evolved first on our planet before the mammals --- including the primates --- What do think are the chances that other typical earth type planets that support carbon based life, will have a certain percentage of [barring catastrophic extinction events] highly intelligent bipedal dinosauroid races?

I don't know.

I would say it is probably a small chance because there could have been many other species which might have become the dominant form of life on Earth had things played out slightly differently.

There could have been giant trilobites dominating the Earth had they not died out before the dinos took over. That's just one example.

Also every planets environment may be slightly different. Who knows what the effect of slightly more or slightly less UV radiation (something which causes genetic mutation) might have had on life on Earth? Yet we know of planets which orbit stars with higher UV output or lower UV output or even no UV output.

One skeptical argument against the occupants reported in association with UFO sightings plays on this fact. The occupants always look too similar to humans.

We don't have stories of 5 foot tall trilobites or intelligent land going octopi. Most alien reports (as in sci-fi) almost always are bi-pedal in nature. In old pre-CGI sci-fi this was understandable because human actors were involved in playing alien roles but evolution as far as we know has no such bias toward bipedalism.

I like the show Falling Skies because the first alien species they introduced were these 6 legged insect like "skitters".

originally posted by: ObservingTheWorld
a reply to: game over man

Okay, time is NOT a thing. It is a measurement only. It is a measurement of regular occurring instances or events. Let me ask you this, what were the clocks on the space shuttle using as their basis of time? Could have anything in their environment have changed that what the clock was measuring (i.e. reduced gravitational forces, etc.)? Could those clocks use a common reference as clocks on Earth?

Yes. An atomic clock synchronized with one on Earth would show that the Space Shuttle's clock when returned to Earth would be out of sync and would have run slower because the speed of 17,000 miles per hour the space shuttle travelled around the Earth. The faster you go the more the time dilation effect is apparent. Time dilation was confirmed in 1971 kind of that way.

BTW: Without this effect of relativity our GPS devices would become very inaccurate.

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: JadeStar

I don't know what to say; 'wow' and 'well done' immediately comes to mind but since I can't find a superlative that matches the quality of the thread I'm gonna stick with 'wow, well done.'

Thank you.

What I find fascinating is that the goldilocks zone is widening every day as our knowledge expands-and each exoplanet could have it's own unique environment that produces unique species that are exclusive to that planet.

Yes. The more we look the more we're finding that there may be different niches of habitability.

Besides the habitable zone of a star for example a moon orbiting a cold gas giant planet like Jupiter which is outside the habitable zone could be tidally heated to produce Earth Like temperatures on the moon FAR from the normal habitable zone.

Another example would be planets outside the colder edge of the habitable zone which are rich in thorium. They might be able to warm to Earth temperatures despite being outside the classic habitable zone.

I agree that greys could be amphibious or even reptilian in nature-if it wasn't for the Chixculub impact or other catastrophes the dinosaurs could have remained the dominate species on Earth and maybe they could've continued to evolve and developed sentience.

Quite possibly.

Perhaps the greys emaciated appearance is due to the reliance on automatons rather than physical labor-humanity is facing the same problem but with the opposite effect, but that is just speculation at this point.

Good point. There's a thought that over a million years we may eventually evolve into a separate species in space for the same reason. Even on space missions which last a year its known that muscle mass and bone density are reduced.

This was a great thread, I can't stress that enough.

Thanks a gain, it was a pleasure.

originally posted by: moebius
a reply to: JadeStar
That is indeed impressive. But where are all the signals from those 30 nearby civilizations that may know that we're here and probably will have known that fact here for a long time?

Well assuming they are transmitting at all (an assumption we'll go with here) then:

1) Their signals are not directed at us for our attention but are akin to our weak 'leakage' from radars, tv and radio transmitters etc.

Contrary to popular thought, we're only beginning to build something which could detect this type of leakage signal from that far away. The Square Kilometer Array (SKA) of radio telescopes. Sometime in the 2020s perhaps we will detect a leakage signal from god only knows what technology with the SKA.



2) We have not searched the place where they are AND/OR the frequencies which are in use or our receivers are not yet sensitive enough.

This is the total amount of sky and frequency space at given sensitivities for ALL of the SETI experiments since the firs one in the 1960s. As you can see, we've only begun this search. Space is vast. So is the electromagnetic spectrum.

originally posted by: grey9438
a reply to: JadeStar

Very interesting thread. I'm a little curious as to why bthey would retain features in their hands for uses like swimming or climbing,

Well we did didn't we?

It turns out they are hella useful for making tools, manipulating fire and other things which lead to technology like telescopes and rockets.

these would be useful for escaping predators but may make object manipulation more difficult. And it would be safe to assume that they could develop weapons for defense and no longer need to flee predators.

It turns out that opposable digits are very handy for picking things up AND manipulating them. This is why we're designing them on robots which in theory could use things like vacuum suction pads or other means to grip things.

I'd expect a technological species would have something like fingers or pincers or maybe tentacles which functioned similarly.

So loose these features. I've contemplated the evolution of them before but you did a much better breakdown than what I've thought of.

Thanks.

The reason they might have retained the webbing between them might be because they still spend a fair amount of time underwater for whatever reason.

originally posted by: Baddogma
Excellent effort. Bravo to a future astronomer with a true vision of science as it should be.

Thanks!

My own thoughts are mixed... being a science nerd who's had some truly bizarre experiences... with the paranormal and UFO's.

So, ignoring for the moment the reams of other anecdotal accounts and some material evidence, it's likely, to me, that something with a higher technological knowledge has been here. Alien? Perhaps.

Given the length of time the Earth has existed and been detectable as a place with life, 2.5 billion years, it would stand to reason that at some point it might have been visited. Finding evidence of that would be nearly impossible unless "they' were still here" or they left something on the moon which can preserve something for millions perhaps even billions of years since its airless surface doesn't experience weather, water erosion. plate techtonics, etc.

So if something alien came to Earth at some point it might not be the worst idea to look for evidence on the moon (assuming it would have left traces there).

There are actually people in academia who are doing that right now. It's part of SETA (The Search for Extraterrestrial Artifacts) which seeks to comb through various imagery and other data from planets in our solar system and even now extrasolar planets looking for evidence of artificial stuff we didn't make.

So this thread is a very decent effort at putting some 'realism' to the phenomena ... but we just don't know enough to be definitive... but there are at least knowledgeable, scientific people willing to look at it... and that's a good thing for those of us yearning for answers, and getting odd looks from most educated, 'normal' folks.

Well you can tell those educated 'normal' folks that the field of astrobiology is closing in on answering the question of whether we're alone or not.

Most scientists now believe alien life is not only possible but inevitable. What they do not believe is that it is visiting the Earth right now abducting people and forging secret agreements with governments.

a reply to: JadeStar

The reason they might have retained the webbing between them might be because they still spend a fair amount of time underwater for whatever reason.

Perhaps they spawn in the water. This might account for the apparent absence of external sexual organs.

originally posted by: Scdfa

As far as those knowledgeable, scientific people? Science has failed. They have all been too afraid to lose their grant money, lose their academic position, or face the pressure from their peers. Let alone the fear of losing any government contracts or hopes of employment in government agencies, which includes NASA. So they have avoided the topic like a third rail.

Really?

Scientists have had seventy years now, and what have they learned? Nothing.

Actually quite a lot about the places such aliens might call home.

20 years ago this year was the first discovery of a extrasolar planet around a Sunlike star.

35 years ago this year NASA's Voyager 1 Probe flew by the planet Saturn and photographed the moon Titan's thick haze layer, thus identifying a new place of astrobiological interest in the process.

36 years ago NASA scientist (and Texas MUFON member) Alan C. Holt authored this paper which you probably never read:









Which of course looks like....


50 years ago this year Gordon Moore describes the exponential growth trend in computing power which will become known as Moore's law.

70 years ago this year Arthur C. Clarke puts forward the idea of a geosynchronous communications satellite.

But where were the scientists?

Um, doing science? ;-)

Did a scientist ever even talk to Travis Walton?

Yes. Psychologists are scientists as well. Wasn't he hypnotically regressed by one?

Or examine the site of his abduction, how about a soil sample from where Travis was standing when he was struck by a beam of alien energy? It was world-wide news, but scientists looked the other way.

Oh really now?

Where were the scientists during the Cash-Landrum incident where a family received lethal doses of radiation from a UFO? Their car was severely damaged, paint burned off by radiation, why no scientific examination of the physical evidence?

Um, was it not some scientists working with MUFON who actually did the analysis of the car determining that it would have taken some form of radiation to produce the effect? And wait a minute, weren't Betty Cash and Vickie Landrum examined by doctors after they fell ill?

Didn't Dr. J. Allen Hynek investigate that case?

You are really grasping here.

I guess Carl Sagan was too busy on TV telling people that UFOs were not real.

LOL......



You accuse us scientists of not doing our homework about the UFO subject but may I for a minute ask if you have actually read much? It seems you have been fed a steady diet of sensationalist TV but have no idea of the work that was done by real actual scientists on the subject.

Why didn't scientists set up equipment to gather information?

Project Hessdalen

The funny thing about using science to examine UFOs is that often it finds there's nothing alien about them.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: JadeStar

The reason they might have retained the webbing between them might be because they still spend a fair amount of time underwater for whatever reason.

Perhaps they spawn in the water. This might account for the apparent absence of external sexual organs.

That's as good a theory as any if they existed.