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The Brilliant New Science That Has Creationists and the Christian Right Terrified

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posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 12:43 AM
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originally posted by: Willtell
To answer this scientist directly I WOULD SAY THIS:

Sure what he describes is a cause and effect phenomenon that doesn’t have a God saying: “Peek a boo I'm here”

What he describes is a CONTEXT for life. Wonderful

Still he says life needs this or that to be such as closeness to the sun.

Well it matters that some design or circumstances have been evolved bringing all the elements at the right time and place for Life and those contexts are still mysterious and unfathomable by science because you’ll always run into an unknown in examining psychical phenomenon.

That unknown or unseen IS GOD

THAT IS GOD!


Interesting.....Your statement remind me of something I learned doing Statistical Math in college. In Statistics Math there is no absolute zero, instead you have what's called the "empty set." I always thought of the empty set as God; something's that's always there; the place-holder for life where everything starts. Same as your unknown or unseen, same as Space; there but not there...I know it sounds crazy.
edit on 4-1-2015 by lostbook because: word add




posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 12:45 AM
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You lost me at "theory"



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 12:46 AM
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Once again why does everyone debate the how when religion is all about the why and science is all about the how. Religion relies on faith that explains the why, and how everything happens would still be God's work no matter what.


edit on 4-1-2015 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 12:48 AM
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originally posted by: lostbook

Interesting.....Your statement remind me of something I learned doing Statistical Math in college. In Statistics Math there is no absolute zero, instead you have what's called the "empty set." I always thought of the empty set as God; something's that's always there; the place-holder for life where everything starts. Same as your unknown or unseen, same as Space; there but not there...I know it sounds crazy.


Oddly enough it sounds like what Eastern Philosophers call the "Void". It's from this "Void", which is infinite potential, that all things are born from. The Void itself isn't something. But the Potential of Everything.

These kinds of "Truths" are everywhere once you start getting used to seeing them. The language changes but the ideas are all the same.



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 12:51 AM
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a reply to: lostbook

Thanks for the info

Though im not into physics or math other than a laymen

Anyway…what’s amazing or ironic is that since science has made their quest one-dimensional: ONLY dealing with the physical they automatically might have precluded themselves from EVER finding God.

Whatever God is he\she ISN’T one-dimensional



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 12:52 AM
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>>
that science is proving that life can develop WITHOUT god.
>>

I am all but a religious person, but it's NOT science's aim to prove or disprove God.

All such silly headlines do is cause an even wider gap between the religious, fundamentalists etc. and science.
Fundamentalists won't accept science anyway. For how long are scientists already digging out bones and discovering caves with traces of early humans, and fundamentalists STILL insisting earth is only a few thousands years old and we were "designed"?

Get away from that silly "black and white" thinking!!

* For fundamentalists and very religious persons this means that science DOES NOT have to be "an enemy" to a belief - if a scientific discovery would threaten your faith you should probably over-think your faith. A fricking dinosaur bone or discovery of life on other planets are threatening? Wow, how self-limiting! Not only for your own belief but also limiting the power of a possibly god or creator. (This self-limitation is your own choice - such as, when the words and the dogma of the bible and taking it literally is more important to you. You made up a belief for yourself, say, the Earth is only 6000 years old. No-one forced you to do that. Now it turns out that any knowledge that the Earth is possibly more than 6000 years old would go "against" your belief. However, this is the key: It does NOT go against a god or the idea of a creator, it merely and ONLY goes against your self-limited belief and idea of god.

* And for scientists: Science is not "opposing" religion or spirituality. In the same way as fundamentalists COULD well integrate science and discovery into their beliefs, science can well leave those answers open. You don't look for god with a microscope or a telescope. (Or maybe you do, in some way). But it's not science's goal to find spiritual or religious answers. You won't find spiritual answers in a lab.

Just saying there does not NEED to be a divide between what someone believes and science.





edit on 1/4/2015 by NoRulesAllowed because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 12:57 AM
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My point is that these scientists and their discoveries are in a sense finding God but the fact that they reject the SPIRIT means they don’t even realize that they may be finding God!

They lack understanding AND true context of their own work.

They will not even benefit from their own work



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 01:02 AM
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originally posted by: Jamie1
a reply to: lostbook

I'm a scientist. I don't believe in fairy tales.

But this "theory" shows nothing. He's saying there's a thermodynamic model that explains life started.

No kidding.

We're here, right? It has nothing to do with God, or not having a God, or whether or not space aliens created us.


Your avatar is a thermodynamic model. What's your sign?

Sorry, I had to. Peace and good happiness stuff.



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 01:07 AM
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originally posted by: Willtell
My point is that these scientists and their discoveries are in a sense finding God but the fact that they reject the SPIRIT means they don’t even realize that they may be finding God!

They lack understanding AND true context of their own work.

They will not even benefit from their own work


How do you know what anyone else may or may not be benefiting from what they are doing?? Or what they do or do not Reject and Accept on a deeper level?? You're making wild claims and assumptions about people and things you couldn't possible know or have even researched on your own.

You're having a crazy knee jerk reaction to a new scientific theory that you don't even fully understand but because some 3rd party is claiming some connections involving ideas YOU hold as Sacred and untouchable you fight against them without even understanding what you're fighting against. Like a wild frenzy attacking ghosts only you can see.

Do you not see that as possibly a bit irrational and unnecessary??? Maybe I'm wrong but it's almost like you're reacting out of fear?? What is there to fear or what is it that you feel needs your help in protecting itself from other ideas??? Shutting down new ideas because you're comfortable with the old ones doesn't do any good. It's not like we already have all the answers, so why not bring all ideas to the table equally and let the correct ones stand on their own merit??



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 01:53 AM
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a reply to: lostbook

This guy is not a pioneer man. He's just rehashing what scientists have been saying for the past couple hundred years



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 01:54 AM
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a reply to: Prime80

Hahaha. Well careful you don't float away off of Earth man. The "Theory of gravity" is also still called a theory



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 04:36 AM
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I am one of those souls who do not believe religion is giving a complete view of all that is.

But I will give a creation story that a higher level awareness can use that follows quantum mechanics.

1. First you create an empty space of how many dimension of space and time that you find appropriate for your creation to put stuff in. Choose if you want a infinite space in all dimensions or rounded curved space.
2. Then you set up a probability field in this space. The probability field is being used to control where all energy will exists on quantum level and what form it will have. Since you are entangled to all creation you can change the field at any point of space at time.
3. You push in energy into the empty space and the energy will flow based on the probability field changing the nature of what shape the energy will take depending on the probability field.
4. Continue to change the probability field and add or remove energy to create the things you want to create if the creation evolves differently than you planed.



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 04:45 AM
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a reply to: lostbook

A lot of people forget that the sun is what powers life on this planet and gives it the energy to evolve, it is not something from nothing. I was missing this part for a while, too.

Interesting how some of the first gods were the sun gods.
edit on 04amSun, 04 Jan 2015 04:46:06 -0600kbamkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)

edit on 04amSun, 04 Jan 2015 04:46:46 -0600kbamkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 04:46 AM
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a reply to: lostbook

A water crystal observed under a microscope will form geometric configurations which can be altered with frequency. A human body is 99 % water so we are basically water, which is crystalline in nature. Therefore at the atomic level who wouldn't be surprised also to see such geometry. The thermal expansion and cooling is a derivation of an idea that vibration changes will form different geometric changes in order. The bottom line is that a universe of geometry requires a geometry of forces which are in in extricably controlled to form patters and shapes, the building blocks of everything. Throw a pile of boiling mud at a wall and no life will form, so that a million times and no life will form. Shoot electricity into it and no life will form.

I am not religious and don't believe in God but their is definitely an embedded intelligence controlling force to create life.



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 04:55 AM
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Before science and common People can judge the existance of God. They have to figure out what the infinite is. Our universe is not infinite. It had a beginning som 13,7 billion years ago.


The Big Bang theory is the prevailing cosmological model that describes the early development of the Universe, which is estimated to have begun 13.798 ± 0.037 billion years ago.[8][9]

It is the singularity that had all the Properties of life within it. God never created life. Earth did. It is even mentioned in Genesis Chapter one. "And God said: Let Earth bring forth...........


The question should be. Did God form the singularity?
edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 04:55 AM
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originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
a reply to: lostbook

The entire premise is based on faulty logic that presumes all these highly convenient things which support his so called theory, just sprang into existence, and also follow highly law abiding processes, are just doing a perfect job of self sustainment all by themselves, even though they all must follow some magical predetermined set of rules, which are also just magically there by themselves, and continue following laws and rules that nobody made because the universe just made itself and everything in it, and it all just keeps on going because nature automatically created itself too, and it keeps going by itself too because, well, it just happened? And finally this guy just figured it all out? How wonderful!




Which in principle is remarkably like believing in a creator god who appeared from nowhere in a time before time and created everything from nothing.

Funny how such things usually just come back to the same principles, just dressed in different language and violently opposed to one another.

Eventually peeps will say "look, it doesn't really make much difference in the long run. lets do something useful instead"



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 05:38 AM
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a reply to: AthlonSavage
' A human body is 99 % water'
Did you just make up that number? The average percent of water in an adult human male is around 68%.
'The formula, based on established physics, indicates that when a group of atoms is driven by an external source of energy (like the sun or chemical fuel) and surrounded by a heat bath (like the ocean or atmosphere), it will often gradually restructure itself in order to dissipate increasingly more energy.' So, has he tried this and created life? If not, its just a postulation and nothing more.



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 05:42 AM
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a reply to: SeekerOfDaTroof

yes I did but it doesn't change my fundamental argument, a cake doesn't bake without water laddy.



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 05:56 AM
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a reply to: lostbook


In essence, he’s saying, life itself evolved out of simpler non-living systems.

Well it would be pretty weird if life originally evolved out of complicated living systems wouldn't it...

All he's really saying is that life evolved out of non-living particles in a primordial soup of some sort.
edit on 4/1/2015 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 06:39 AM
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a reply to: lostbook

I think this article was less about "Science DIsproving God", which none of the scientists quoted in the Salon article say anything remotely like this, and more about discussing an advancement in thermodynamics that may show that life is actually inevitable. Creationists have long claimed that the 2nd Law of thermodynamics makes abiogenesis impossible, which only shows that they don't understand the 2nd Law. If England's work is shown to be correct, it would provide the ultimate refutation for that argument -- not only are the Creationists wrong in that regard (which has already been shown time and time again) but that the laws of thermodynamics actual favor the formation of life.




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