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Republican Governor learns his tax cuts for the rich didn't work

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posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 03:10 PM
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Always amazing to see the 'rightists' come in and defend their failing system. Hell the leftists suck too the whole house of cards needs to burn down along with everyone's misconceptions about it.




posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 03:10 PM
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originally posted by: intrepid
And if one thinks that a company won't throw it's employees under the bus for profit just look at companies moving production overseas:


Despite a lot of talk and articles written about reshoring -- bringing production back to the United States -- offshore outsourcing of manufacturing and service-sector jobs to foreign nations continues to plague the American economy.

Hundreds of major American corporations are shipping thousands of jobs overseas, according to an analysis of Trade Adjustment Assistance (TAA) filings made to the U.S. Department of Labor's Employment and Training Administration on behalf of the displaced workers.


www.manufacturingnews.com...

"Evil rich?" I can live with that term.


If the government makes laws, supported by useful idiots who want to "stick it to the rich" regardless of the actual reality of economics or what drives an economy, that makes cost of doing business here more than over there, then of course they will move. We already have the highest corporate income tax in the world, guess what, corporations are going overseas to places like Ireland and Singapore where people want those businesses.

These people have created the very problem that they are complaining about.



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 03:13 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

That was yesterday, before the corporations were total money whores. In those days if a product was popular, manufacturing ramped up, the price DECREASED as more units were sold. Which in turn increased the manufacturers ability to hire and these people purchase more goods. Economy flourishes. Today if something is popular the price is INCREASED to maximize profit. The model that you posit doesn't exist today.



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 03:15 PM
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originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: NavyDoc

That was yesterday, before the corporations were total money whores. In those days if a product was popular, manufacturing ramped up, the price DECREASED as more units were sold. Which in turn increased the manufacturers ability to hire and these people purchase more goods. Economy flourishes. Today if something is popular the price is INCREASED to maximize profit. The model that you posit doesn't exist today.



This is what it really boils down to. People like to parrot what they view as economic fact but at the end of the day what you think is economically sound one day can be changed with the scrawl of a pen the next.



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 03:15 PM
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a reply to: Jamie1



FACT - Kansas is ranked 10th in the country in unemployment rate at 4.2%

No it's not it's 4.3% so your fact is wrong.


Texas, with no personal income tax, is ranked 16th at 4.9%

This one you got right.


FACT - California, with a top tax rate of 13.3% is ranked 49th in at 7.2%.

This one you also got right. Two out of three isn't bad. Link for my posts. Unemployment Rates for States


California's unemployment rate is 71% higher than that of Kansas.

California also has way more people than Kansas. California has 38,802,500 Kansas has 2,904,021 so comparing the number of unemployed between the states is laughable.


The context of of the OP judging Kansas in terms of job growth in Kansas City makes zero sense. The unemployment rate in Kansas is already top 10 in the country.

Yes because Kansas ranks 34th in population.


The context of of the OP judging Kansas in terms of job growth in Kansas City makes zero sense. The unemployment rate in Kansas is already top 10 in the country.

None of my posts were about Kansas city but rather the state as a whole. Perhaps you missed that.


Math and Goolge are your friends.

Yes they are and maybe you can use them to learn how to spell Google and how to post a link backing up your "facts".

edit on 5-1-2015 by buster2010 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 03:23 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Greven

The US government already makes a killing on taxes. Without the Income tax.

There is nothing fair about the current tax system.

Everyone pays the same rate or not at all.

And not the GD apples to oranges deal between payroll, and capitol gains.

The ultimate check to government power was MONEY. It doesn't have absolute power to create taxes to pay for peoples existence in this world.

And that MEANS by not robbing from the haves so the 'less' fortunate' can go out, and buy more corporate products.

The only thing the LEFT has done is virtually guarantee them evil rich folks, and them evil business income.

For a group of people that claims to believe in 'science' need to put their money where their mouth is, and PROVE they believe in EVOLUTION.

Instead of social engineering the environment to suit individual mediocrity.

Hell adapting to the environment is supposedly how we became top of the GD food chain.

Hiding behind government, and just voting themselves things sure proves the reality.

That the left is the party of 'anti' science.

Well let's see now, individual income tax made up over $1.3 trillion in federal revenue in 2013. $947 billion came from Social Security and similar programs. $273 billion came from corporate income taxes. Another $240 billion came from other taxes. Federal spending was near $3.5 trillion. What do you cut?

Suppose we all pay the same in income taxes. Let's say 50%. People working 40 hours a week at $7.25/hr now have to get by on under $8,000 a year. People working 40 hours a week at $50/hr now have to get by on $52,000 a year. Is this fair?

What are you advocating, that we let the poor starve? That cripples can crawl their way to the grocery store begging for scraps?

It seems like you are advocating something like eugenics.



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 03:26 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc



We already have the highest corporate income tax in the world, guess what, corporations are going overseas to places like Ireland and Singapore where people want those businesses.

If this is true then why are foreigners eager to open factories here in the sates? Taxes isn't what makes these companies move overseas greed is the reason.


These people have created the very problem that they are complaining about.

The only reason why people is crying that there is a problem is because everyone bought into the propaganda the "evil rich" paid for their media to put out to the public. Before NAFTA and the other "free trade" agreements that ruined our economy the government stuck it to the rich and guess what happened? They still got rich. So they could still keep the companies here in the states and pay the higher taxes and still make a great profit but that isn't enough to satisfy the "evil rich".
edit on 5-1-2015 by buster2010 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 03:31 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc




If the government makes laws, supported by useful idiots who want to "stick it to the rich" regardless of the actual reality of economics or what drives an economy,


Stick it to the rich! I have heard this somewhere before:



Liberty and democracy are eternal enemies, and every one knows it who has ever given any sober reflection to the matter. A democratic state may profess to venerate the name, and even pass laws making it officially sacred, but it simply cannot tolerate the thing. In order to keep any coherence in the governmental process, to prevent the wildest anarchy in thought and act, the government must put limits upon the free play of opinion. In part, it can reach that end by mere propaganda, by the bald force of its authority — that is, by making certain doctrines officially infamous. But in part it must resort to force, i.e., to law. One of the main purposes of laws in a democratic society is to put burdens upon intelligence and reduce it to impotence. Ostensibly, their aim is to penalize anti-social acts; actually their aim is to penalize heretical opinions. At least ninety-five Americans out of every 100 believe that this process is honest and even laudable; it is practically impossible to convince them that there is anything evil in it. In other words, they cannot grasp the concept of liberty. Always they condition it with the doctrine that the state, i.e., the majority, has a sort of right of eminent domain in acts, and even in ideas — that it is perfectly free, whenever it is so disposed, to forbid a man to say what he honestly believes. Whenever his notions show signs of becoming "dangerous," ie, of being heard and attended to, it exercises that prerogative. And the overwhelming majority of citizens believe in supporting it in the outrage. Including especially the Liberals, who pretend — and often quite honestly believe — that they are hot for liberty. They never really are. Deep down in their hearts they know, as good democrats, that liberty would be fatal to democracy — that a government based upon shifting and irrational opinion must keep it within bounds or run a constant risk of disaster. They themselves, as a practical matter, advocate only certain narrow kinds of liberty — liberty, that is, for the persons they happen to favor. The rights of other persons do not seem to interest them. If a law were passed tomorrow taking away the property of a large group of presumably well-to-do persons — say, bondholders of the railroads — without compensation and without even colorable reason, they would not oppose it; they would be in favor of it. The liberty to have and hold property is not one they recognize. They believe only in the liberty to envy, hate and loot the man who has it.


Rinse, and Repeat because for some odd reason they ALWAYS run out of other peoples money.
edit on 5-1-2015 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 03:36 PM
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a reply to: Greven

What you cut is SS,medicare,and medicaid. They should have never been created.

It's not the place of government to provide retirement accounts, and healthcare.

Then you cut student loans out since that now accounts for over 1.2 trillion in debt.

Then you cut FOREIGN aid.

Then you cut agriculture,oil, and ever other corporate subsidies.

The only thing taxes SHOULD BE USED FOR is to pay the governments own bills.

Not ours.

Not guaranteeing prices for products.

Not providing corporate services.

Not providing arms to drug cartels.

Not providing arms to terrorist's.
'
Not buy 'friends' in the ME like the 'Muslim' brotherhood.

My GOD the things our tax money is used for is GD nonsensical.

But what ever.

We need income taxes like we need another orifice in our heads.




edit on 5-1-2015 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 03:36 PM
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I think there is some misunderstanding. Let's use a simple example with some simple logic.

Suppose there is 100% employment. Everyone looking for a job has one. If you lowered tax rates for business owners, would there be more jobs created? There's nobody left to employ, so there is not an increase in jobs.

Kansas isn't at 100% employment, and it won't reach it. There is a natural unemployment rate in capitalistic economies, around 4-5%. This is basically where Kansas is right now. The lowest unemployment rate the U.S. has had was about 2.5% - during the Korean War.



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 03:45 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Greven

What you cut is SS,medicare,and medicaid. They should have never been created.

It's not the place of government to provide retirement accounts, and healthcare.

Then you cut student loans out since that now accounts for over 1.2 trillion in debt.

Then you cut FOREIGN aid.

Then you cut agriculture,oil, and ever other corporate subsidies.

The only thing taxes SHOULD BE USED FOR is to pay the governments own bills.

Not ours.

Not guaranteeing prices for products.

Not providing corporate services.

Not providing arms to drug cartels.

Not providing arms to terrorist's.
'
Not buy 'friends' in the ME like the 'Muslim' brotherhood.

My GOD the things our tax money is used for is GD nonsensical.

But what ever.

We need income taxes like we need another orifice in our heads.

Okay, so we cut all of those. Since several are self-funding, we also cut that revenue. Oh, and we lose our biggest debt creditor.

By doing away with income taxes and Social Security (etc), we now only have $240 billion in revenue from other taxes. What will that pay for? Let's gut everything - every single thing the federal government does - except the military. What will that cost? Oh, about $700 billion in 2013. Hm, looks like we're a bit short. Suppose we add back the corporate income tax - that gives us around $513 billion or so.

Oh dear... what would you do about such a shortfall?



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 03:45 PM
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originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: NavyDoc



We already have the highest corporate income tax in the world, guess what, corporations are going overseas to places like Ireland and Singapore where people want those businesses.

If this is true then why are foreigners eager to open factories here in the sates? Taxes isn't what makes these companies move overseas greed is the reason.


These people have created the very problem that they are complaining about.

The only reason why people is crying that there is a problem is because everyone bought into the propaganda the "evil rich" paid for their media to put out to the public. Before NAFTA and the other "free trade" agreements that ruined our economy the government stuck it to the rich and guess what happened? They still got rich. So they could still keep the companies here in the states and pay the higher taxes and still make a great profit but that isn't enough to satisfy the "evil rich".


The factories are in the US because it is cheaper to build a product where it is going rather to build it elsewhere and then ship it over and face both the expense of the actual shipping and tariffs associated with it. However, the corporation, the money central, stays overseas.

Regulation, taxation, EEOC, EPA, OSHA, and out of control civil litigation system all make the US a business unfriendly place. Don't get all upset when your "social justice" demands drive out those evil corporations. Talk about killing the goose that laid the golden egg. "Greed" this and "greed" that--your very language is that of the leftist social justice warrior. LOL.



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 03:56 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: neo96
The 'rich haters' entire platform is just to rob from the rich so the poor can go out, and buy MORE stuff.


Which stimulates the economy.... unlike the rich hoarding it and the interest gets spread only among themselves.


Sometimes I think people's understanding of economic principles comes from reading "Scrooge McDuck" comic books. The "rich" or highest wage earners,


I got my degree in economics...And that first sentence is pure comedy.

The "rich" are not the "highest wage earners"...they do not "earn a wage". They collect "unearned" or "passive" income...money given them, not in wages or in return for Labor or Services...but money for the virtue of already having money.

Again..I don't begrudge people collecting interest, but when that "unearned income" ...through the political influence it affords...is taxed less than actual earned income, income earned by inventors, laborers and service providers...working for their money...then we have a rigged system...the same reason the Casino will eventually take all your money the longer you play. With regards to our economy, more and more money is parked amongst fewer and fewer wealthy elite. And why wouldn't they park that money? Through buying policy they have devised a system that greatly rewards and incentivizes just that.

What did the "Banks" do with the massive bailout money they demanded and got from taxpayers? The failed reasoning was that they would pass it on to businesses in loans, pass it off to investors and spur economic growth. Economists and researchers have now looked back and figured out where that "Stimulas" for the bankers went that disappeared en route to the taxpayers it originated with...They invested in food and energy options and futures..thus driving up the cost of food and electricity during the economic crisis..They didn't pass it off to businesses in loans...They made the bet they were incentivized to make...Everyone needs heat and food! Ironic isn't it? Your money went toward jacking up food and energy prices on yourself in the midst of an economic crisis. That is the wonder of "trickle down" economics!

Unearned Income
Passive Income
Economic Rent

Research a little before pretending to understand Macro-economics.

In every way...from basic tax codes to thousands of pages of GOP inspired loop-holes...the wealthiest are rewarded for already being wealthy and in a way that incentivizes them to take that money out of the economy rather than re-invest.

How the wealthy, bankers and corporations convinced conservatives to treat them like Royalty of old I will never understand. Conservatives used to stand for fairness and the working man.

A level playing field is all the middle class or any American needs or deserves and the marbles are collecting more in the corner of the room with each passing year...and at an accelerating pace.



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 03:59 PM
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a reply to: Greven

NONE of them are self funding.

THERE IS NOT A SINGLE government program that pays for itself.

Do you honestly think that pittance people pay in covers the benefits received ?

They don't even come close.

Employees only pay a SMALL percentage the rest of that comes from the employer. That doesn't cover it. So they print more money. That still doesn't cover it. They borrow money from places like CHINA. That still doesn't cover it.

Hell issuing treasuries still doesn't cover it. Then they created BULL SNIP new taxes lik the 'Alternative minimum tax', an the capitol gains surtax.

AND IT STILL DOESN'T COVER the revenue short fall.

Because if they were 'self funding' as someone claims, New taxes would have never been created, and the ENDLESS demagouery wouldn't exist.

FACT remains they don't even come close to paying for themselves.

edit on 5-1-2015 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 04:04 PM
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a reply to: Indigo5




I got my degree in economics...And that first sentence is pure comedy.


That comment is pure comedy.

Doesn't take a GD college 'degree' to know when it costs more to keep a business doors open than it takes in

They do WHAT ?

Close or move where it's cheaper.

How many thousands of dollars did that cost when common sense is free.



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 04:08 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Indigo5




I got my degree in economics...And that first sentence is pure comedy.


That comment is pure comedy.

Doesn't take a GD college 'degree' to know when it costs more to keep a business doors open than it takes in

They do WHAT ?

Close or move where it's cheaper.

How many thousands of dollars did that cost when common sense is free.


No offense, but you make no sense.

Are you suggesting that the Wealthiest earn their income through wages? because that was what I responded to.

The rest of your post...again, no offense...seems like disparate, unrelated rhetorical nonsense. Like some cut and paste letter comprised of portions of Tea Party bumper stickers.

Give me a coherent argument of substance and I can respond.



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 04:08 PM
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originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: neo96
The 'rich haters' entire platform is just to rob from the rich so the poor can go out, and buy MORE stuff.


Which stimulates the economy.... unlike the rich hoarding it and the interest gets spread only among themselves.


Sometimes I think people's understanding of economic principles comes from reading "Scrooge McDuck" comic books. The "rich" or highest wage earners,


I got my degree in economics...And that first sentence is pure comedy.

The "rich" are not the "highest wage earners"...they do not "earn a wage". They collect "unearned" or "passive" income...money given them, not in wages or in return for Labor or Services...but money for the virtue of already having money.

Again..I don't begrudge people collecting interest, but when that "unearned income" ...through the political influence it affords...is taxed less than actual earned income, income earned by inventors, laborers and service providers...working for their money...then we have a rigged system...the same reason the Casino will eventually take all your money the longer you play. With regards to our economy, more and more money is parked amongst fewer and fewer wealthy elite. And why wouldn't they park that money? Through buying policy they have devised a system that greatly rewards and incentivizes just that.

What did the "Banks" do with the massive bailout money they demanded and got from taxpayers? The failed reasoning was that they would pass it on to businesses in loans, pass it off to investors and spur economic growth. Economists and researchers have now looked back and figured out where that "Stimulas" for the bankers went that disappeared en route to the taxpayers it originated with...They invested in food and energy options and futures..thus driving up the cost of food and electricity during the economic crisis..They didn't pass it off to businesses in loans...They made the bet they were incentivized to make...Everyone needs heat and food! Ironic isn't it? Your money went toward jacking up food and energy prices on yourself in the midst of an economic crisis. That is the wonder of "trickle down" economics!

Unearned Income
Passive Income
Economic Rent

Research a little before pretending to understand Macro-economics.

In every way...from basic tax codes to thousands of pages of GOP inspired loop-holes...the wealthiest are rewarded for already being wealthy and in a way that incentivizes them to take that money out of the economy rather than re-invest.

How the wealthy, bankers and corporations convinced conservatives to treat them like Royalty of old I will never understand. Conservatives used to stand for fairness and the working man.

A level playing field is all the middle class or any American needs or deserves and the marbles are collecting more in the corner of the room with each passing year...and at an accelerating pace.


I've taken economics too. I also can read. This discussion is about the INCOME TAX( from the article in the OP " Gov. Sam Brownback promised Kansans that his deep income tax cuts favoring the wealthy would bring lots of great new things to the state. "--so yes, we are discussing wage earners. Utter fail on your part.

Capital gains are taxed less than income because, firstly, money is taxed once when you first earn it before you invest it and secondly to encourage people to put it back into the economy rather than stuffing mattresses with it or rolling around in it like the aforementioned Scrooge McDuck.

As a "economics major" I'd hope you'd learned that capital gains is not just for the "rich." Have a retirement account? Taxed as a capital gain, not as income. Sell a house? Same difference.

Methinks that you either didn't major in economics or smoked through or skipped the non-Marxist classes.
edit on 5-1-2015 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 04:12 PM
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a reply to: Indigo5

The rich earn their wealth simply because they are better with their money.

Now if the LEFT hadn't destroyed finance in this country for the poor, and middle class with their endless trash regulations.

To now where checking,savings,money markets, CD's, and other investments use to pay a GD decent interest rate return.

Things both used to use to increase their wealth.

The only thing that pays half way decent anymore is stocks. But if they left had their way that wouldn't even exist.

Progressives have almost a flawless victory with their communist playbook.



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 04:13 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: neo96
The 'rich haters' entire platform is just to rob from the rich so the poor can go out, and buy MORE stuff.


Which stimulates the economy.... unlike the rich hoarding it and the interest gets spread only among themselves.


Sometimes I think people's understanding of economic principles comes from reading "Scrooge McDuck" comic books. The "rich" or highest wage earners,


I got my degree in economics...And that first sentence is pure comedy.

The "rich" are not the "highest wage earners"...they do not "earn a wage". They collect "unearned" or "passive" income...money given them, not in wages or in return for Labor or Services...but money for the virtue of already having money.

Again..I don't begrudge people collecting interest, but when that "unearned income" ...through the political influence it affords...is taxed less than actual earned income, income earned by inventors, laborers and service providers...working for their money...then we have a rigged system...the same reason the Casino will eventually take all your money the longer you play. With regards to our economy, more and more money is parked amongst fewer and fewer wealthy elite. And why wouldn't they park that money? Through buying policy they have devised a system that greatly rewards and incentivizes just that.

What did the "Banks" do with the massive bailout money they demanded and got from taxpayers? The failed reasoning was that they would pass it on to businesses in loans, pass it off to investors and spur economic growth. Economists and researchers have now looked back and figured out where that "Stimulas" for the bankers went that disappeared en route to the taxpayers it originated with...They invested in food and energy options and futures..thus driving up the cost of food and electricity during the economic crisis..They didn't pass it off to businesses in loans...They made the bet they were incentivized to make...Everyone needs heat and food! Ironic isn't it? Your money went toward jacking up food and energy prices on yourself in the midst of an economic crisis. That is the wonder of "trickle down" economics!

Unearned Income
Passive Income
Economic Rent

Research a little before pretending to understand Macro-economics.

In every way...from basic tax codes to thousands of pages of GOP inspired loop-holes...the wealthiest are rewarded for already being wealthy and in a way that incentivizes them to take that money out of the economy rather than re-invest.

How the wealthy, bankers and corporations convinced conservatives to treat them like Royalty of old I will never understand. Conservatives used to stand for fairness and the working man.

A level playing field is all the middle class or any American needs or deserves and the marbles are collecting more in the corner of the room with each passing year...and at an accelerating pace.


I've taken economics too. I also can read. This discussion is about the INCOME TAX--so yes, we are discussing wage earners. Utter fail on your part.


I'll stick to reality basics for your benefit..

Income taxes concern income

Income includes both "wages" and "unearned income" "interest income" "rental income" and dozens of others...

The wealthy, as it is most commonly defined, do not earn their "wealth" through wages like you claimed...this is a statistical, economic reality and fact you can confirm for yourself.



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 04:14 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc




As a "economics major" I'd hope you'd learned that capital gains is not just for the "rich." Have a retirement account? Taxed as a capital gain, not as income. Sell a house? Same difference.


The capitol gain tax hits anyone with IRA's, 401's, an pensions.

Including both union, and government.

They hate the rich so bad they think they are 'sticking it to them'.

They stick it to themselves the worst.

Hell that's even why there are contribution limits on those accounts.




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