It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Jesus Didn't Die For Your Sins to be Forgiven

page: 8
26
<< 5  6  7    9  10  11 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 09:11 AM
link   
a reply to: cody599

I didn't "go read" that thread and then "think" about that thread because you asked me to. I read it, and 2 or 3 others by the same member, before writing my OP. My OP is a kind of "answer" to those who justify human sacrifice and worship the torture device that was used to terrorize and destroy Judaism in the 1st Century.

Don't even get me started on how that same symbol was used to reign down terror and genocide on other Christians and native populations.




posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 09:22 AM
link   
so... by the act of sincerely forgiving the person who wrongs you... you yourself have freed yourself from the rule or law of Karma which allows a equal 'pay-back' to happen to the person who wronged you.

well, that line of action actually is counter to the universally accepted Rule-of-Law/Justice of every society on planet earth... a refusal to prosecute undermines "equal-justice-under-the-law" where a murderer/thief/et. is forgiven instead of being sentenced when/if found guilty

I find the forgiveness formula unacceptable on many levels... it reeks of behavior modification with no-good in the ultimate end... a trespasser or criminal will use the forgiveness scam time-after-time to escape retribution/justice
On the other hand~~~ Sharia Law by sitting Clerics as judge-jury is too extreme for my sensibility of proper judgment

the current justice paradigm, flawed as it is, is better than either extreme Christian-or-Muslim
I vote secular



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 09:26 AM
link   
a reply to: ParasuvO

Thanks for your insight Parasuv0.



Spiritual Wickedness in the HIGHEST of PLACES....... means just that, ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING in the ENTIRETY OF CREATION, has fell to a different motive.

And we are not here, in any way shape or form to know that, to move to fix that, or to help anyone.

Someone else controls the entire show here, and in the next 27 dimensions so to speak at least, not a one thing taught here, is fully truthful, but a lot of stuff comes close,

Nothing NATURAL ABOUT ANY OF IT, EVER.


Your point of view on the topic reminds me very much of the Gnostic outlook on the universe and the created reality that seems hang over humanity like an evil fog. I can relate.

The Hypostasis of the Archons
(The Reality of the Rulers)




I don't deny that we have may have spiritual/celestial overlords, I DO believe in a spiritual hierarchy. However, me personally, I have "faith" in the universe and "its system". I haven't been able to get the sound of the "Laughing Buddha" out of my head since the '70s. LOL



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 10:06 AM
link   
a reply to: artistpoet reply to: Seede


Hell? Hell is the ungenerous creation of religion to strike fear and subservience into the gullible There is no Hell ... nor judgement from our Creator ... only realisation and learning ... each knows right from wrong in the end

If that is true then we should not even be having this discussion. If we are having this discussion then we should be discussing what is in those eleven bibles that I listed. Those eleven bibles disagree with your premise. You may be correct in what you believe but it is not what the overwhelming majority of Christianity believes. I believe the OP has taken some wording from another source than what is accepted by majority Christianity. What is your source? Or is that simply your own theology?



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 10:12 AM
link   
a reply to: Seede

Technically you're right...

The gospels are a side note in Paul's religion




posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 10:18 AM
link   

originally posted by: windword
Jesus Didn't Die For Your Sins to be Forgiven

Then how do you explain Matthew 26:28 ?

"This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 10:34 AM
link   
a reply to: Ove38

That was likely a later addition to the text...

The second earliest gospel was matthew... which was also meant for a Hebrew (jewish) audience... who believe blood can forgive... but you'll notice none of the other gospels said such things...

The earliest said repentance for the remission of sins...

Which is the same as what Jesus preached.... repent and be forgiven...

You'll also notice that the thief on the cross was forgiven by the same method... Sincere Repentance

Seems like a regular thing for me to blame Paul... but that is what I believe...

Theres a few verses that snuck into the gospels and a few of the letters of his followers that shouldn't be there


edit on 4-1-2015 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 10:37 AM
link   
a reply to: Ove38

I think you'll find the answer to that question in this post: www.abovetopsecret.com...

And again, not nearly as well stated, here: www.abovetopsecret.com...




posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 10:49 AM
link   
a reply to: Jonathan1995




You are guilty of crimes, all evidence is laid out, you stand before a (righteous, just) judge in a court, and you are found guilty. Pointing to all your good works wont help, it still wont change the fact that you're guilty of crimes and that justice is demanded.
But imagine that someone steps in and takes your place and pays the price for your freedom.

Jesus lived a completely sinless life, therefore he could die on the cross as the spotless lamb of God, sacrificed for our sins.
Jesus bore the wrath of God. The Bible says "without shedding of blood there is no remission." (Hebrews 9:22 NKJV). That's why Jesus had to shed his blood for us.

He rose again on the third day. Therefore we can be justified before God, by God's grace, through faith in Jesus Christ and his work on the cross, burial and resurrection and repenting from our sins.You are guilty of crimes, all evidence is laid out, you stand before a (righteous, just) judge in a court, and you are found guilty. Pointing to all your good works wont help, it still wont change the fact that you're guilty of crimes and that justice is demanded.
But imagine that someone steps in and takes your place and pays the price for your freedom.

Jesus lived a completely sinless life, therefore he could die on the cross as the spotless lamb of God, sacrificed for our sins.
Jesus bore the wrath of God. The Bible says "without shedding of blood there is no remission." (Hebrews 9:22 NKJV). That's why Jesus had to shed his blood for us.

He rose again on the third day. Therefore we can be justified before God, by God's grace, through faith in Jesus Christ and his work on the cross, burial and resurrection and repenting from our sins.


That is not an adequate answer to my question. But thanks for trying , its appreciated.



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 10:55 AM
link   
a reply to: Seede

It is my own thoughts RE: That Hell is an invention of religion for purposes which I named
I am not a Christian or any other religion
Yet I believe in a Creator and an afterlife amonst many other things
As a child Jesus was a hero still is ... though I am highly sceptical of the Bible/s



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 11:07 AM
link   

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Ove38

That was likely a later addition to the text...

The second earliest gospel was matthew... which was also meant for a Hebrew (jewish) audience... who believe blood can forgive... but you'll notice none of the other gospels said such things...

The earliest said repentance for the remission of sins...

Which is the same as what Jesus preached.... repent and be forgiven...

You'll also notice that the thief on the cross was forgiven by the same method... Sincere Repentance

Seems like a regular thing for me to blame Paul... but that is what I believe...

Theres a few verses that snuck into the gospels and a few of the letters of his followers that shouldn't be there


You have to repent and pay, Akragon not just repent



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 11:09 AM
link   

originally posted by: Ove38

originally posted by: windword
Jesus Didn't Die For Your Sins to be Forgiven

Then how do you explain Matthew 26:28 ?

"This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."


What he means is that the savage blood sacrifices must come to an end for heaven's sake. The blood in question in Jesus' covenant is wine. Water even. Blood substitution. The Blood of the Lamb is water. You know the stuff you wash your clothes in and that wont get you lupus from drinking it!?! In Hebrew נצח "netsach" (Strongs H-5332) means both wine (even grape juice) and blood or gore for that matter. Donnerwetter!
edit on 4-1-2015 by Utnapisjtim because: נצח



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 11:24 AM
link   
The whole notion that Jesus died for our sins comes from ancient Sun worship. Jesus is no more than a metaphor for the sun, he did not actually exist, he did not actually say anything.

The ancient people knew that the sun is the source of all energy and without the sun life on Earth would not be possible. They called the sun the Gods Sun because they knew that no one could claim ownership of the sun. They say the sun is risen because everyday the Sun rises and saves humanity from the darkness (night).

So this is where the saying, God's SUN gives his life for us. This eventually evolved into Gods Son gave his life for us. To, Gods son died for us. To Gods son dies for our sins. To Jesus died for our sins...

Original sin is nothing more that a trap to keep you scared to leave Corporate Christianity.

This is also why they say the SUN (jesus) turns water into wine. This is where the word Devine comes from. The vine.

Think about it

Jesus is the light of the world
Jesus is Gods only SUN
Jesus is the bringer of light
Jesus is the savior of darkness
Jesus is the guiding light


Its SUN worship



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 11:36 AM
link   
a reply to: windword

video: Forgiveness, Grace, and God's Death Sentence
At the end, the narrator says he his glad that he does not live in a world with a God like that.
Well, that is nice, and no one else does either.
What he was describing as being said in the Bible, isn't, but is really just theories that some people came up with after reading the Bible.



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 11:43 AM
link   
a reply to: artistpoet

The word Christianity encompasses a very broad spectrum today whereas in the first century is was defined more clearly and understood more honestly. Actually there is very little similarity of the original than what you see today. The entire religion has been stolen and the original Christians simply butchered. You do have a good point in my opinion with the exception that if you believe in a Creator and if that Creator is good then there must be division in reward and some type of punishment. It would be a nice thought to have a blissful eternal existence for all but I cannot see that religion emerging as yet. My best to you



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 11:52 AM
link   
a reply to: booyakasha

You forget one important detail. People weren't speaking English back then. The pseudo-cognate similarity in sound and spelling of Sun and Son in English is firstly arbitrary or at best spurious-- and secondly and most important, it is only valid in modern English. There is a similar thing between the words for god /gu:d/ and boy /gu:t/ in Norwegian, but I wouldn't call it anything else than a curiosity.
edit on 4-1-2015 by Utnapisjtim because: norwegian



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 12:02 PM
link   
a reply to: Seede




You do have a good point in my opinion with the exception that if you believe in a Creator and if that Creator is good then there must be division in reward and some type of punishment. It would be a nice thought to have a blissful eternal existence for all but I cannot see that religion emerging as yet. My best to you


Yes I agree that the original Christian school of thought has been twisted and does not represent the original philosophy / school of thught

I do believe the Creator has the best of intentions for it's Creation
However I believe part of this is for us to understand why what we call bad things happen
Meaning we are not immune from our actions/intentions ... I do not believe we are punished but are shown the error of our ways ... from which we can choose to learn and go forward or not

All the best to you also Seede



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 12:06 PM
link   
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I could be wrong, but i think the english language was created by freemasons as a decoder language. The very words SUN and SON were created that way on purpose.

God = Good
Devil = evil

Peter = Ju peter = jupiter
satan = Saturn

Mary=Mare which is latin for sea (the virgin mary/mare)
Jesus= jes which is latin for sun

Horus= horizon= horus risin = where we get the word hours from

Point being the English language was possibly created to decode ancient myths and symbols.


edit on 4-1-2015 by booyakasha because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 12:19 PM
link   
a reply to: daaskapital


If this thread is anything to go by, it is clear that Christianity and its bible are full of contradictions and are in need of refinement. People can't even agree on what the core tenants are, let alone the actual teachings and intricacies in biblical stories... It is pretty shaky ground to base one's beliefs on, in my opinion...

There is a cornucopia of information out there providing more than enough evidence that Xtianity is no more viable than any other ancient or modern religion, as well as being an amalgamation of most of them. Is it any wonder after "2000 years", Xtians still can't agree on the most basic tenets of the faith, and have killed one another in wars, conflicts, inquisitions, and kangaroo courts, to squelch opposing doctrines?

They can't even agree whether or not Paul, and Peter by association, were Xtians, or Roman saboteurs of the faith.


edit on 1/4/2015 by Klassified because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 12:37 PM
link   
a reply to: cody599

Love love love the poster, I was both delighted and a little saddened by reading the thread.

It was symbolic of how medieval, paganesque, virus like and maniacal religion is.
Well written and eloquent doesn't mean reasonable and factual evidences are in discourse.

----------

People look for "Saving"

You will never be saved from the experiences you have had. That is religion reflecting a very human psyche REGRET.

It would be fruitful for the Individual and Society to awaken our minds and appreciate our experience today can already be full and 'heavenly' if we free ourselves of greed and tribal identity requirements that serve no other purpose other than holding humanity back from "Salvation"

By disassociating ourselves from bloodlettings, blood bathings, lakes of fires, hades, prophets and other mythical nonsenses you will be free. These are all just bars in a prison of our own making. You walk out of that prison and realise the lock never existed.
Religion is a social control, there is no debating that, it is aimed at making you feel bad in life and recognise your own mortality under the guise of spiritual saving and freedom.


I understand completely that people find solace. They perceive religion does that, but it is their own mind accepting something that is providing the solace.
In my deepest reaches of understanding I will always believe we know we are so tiny in the scheme of things, that we have stretched so far to make a god care for us so that we matter.
Faith tenants are just like a human child that needs to be loved and matter.

We spend so much time debating the ins and outs of a Tribes history, and more so which religion owns that history .
If only we turned our heads upwards to the true "heavens" and realise the history is the past, we cant be saved from that past no matter what, it happened.

Saving from what? Being human? being Alive? Dying?
What a spectacular waste of time.



Salvation may actually be the release from tribal identity and the historical ownership justifications and battles that have stemmed from it.
Star dust from we which everything including us is made has no borders, no religion, no tribal identity. The elements of the universe don't know nor care about humans. We should know and care about them instead of all this religious banter that serves only to distract us moving froward. Imagine explaining muslim jew or christian with a straight face to a alien?

'Saving', if such a thing needs to actually exist, is the letting go of the fear religion has placed on you and distract you from moving on from the past and moving into the future, and that future is able to happen either due to certain chaotic forces clashing together perfectly to allow conscious life circumstance or a god.

People debating over religion, tenants of faith or historical "ownership" is the only example of hell I can associate with, reading or hearing the same debates and 'I was saved' stories is like a personal guided tour of hell.

"Saving" It really is the oldest sales trick in the book, if you don't join me these bad things will happen to you, and the bad things are in a realm and timescape you can't prove or disprove so it adds to the fear juiciness of it all.
Marketing 101. Watch your membership numbers grow.

Gosh I've rambled on a bit , sorry.
Dons a white flowing robe and jesus sandals.
edit on 4-1-2015 by zazzafrazz because: (no reason given)




top topics



 
26
<< 5  6  7    9  10  11 >>

log in

join