Jesus Didn't Die For Your Sins to be Forgiven

a reply to: DoctorTruthaccept there is no damnation and the battle is gone.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

I'd have to agree, something I've been curious since I was 17 years old. Maybe one day I will have the answers.

a reply to: DoctorTruth maybe you are the answer.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

That sounds like something Jesus would say haha.

a reply to: DoctorTruth lol.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

To speak directly is one thing, but to speak in parables, ah, mindf*ck I call it lmao.

a reply to: DoctorTruth tbh I'm not being direct as I'm driving to Boston . But being all mysterious and parable like on the I90 is a first for me.

a reply to: ausername

I never considered the subject of reincarnation much until recently. But after giving it some thought I have to say that the belief in reincarnation answers some questions that I was unable to answer before. Such as when the locusts are told not to hurt the grass of the earth or any plant or any tree , Only those "men" that didn't have the seal of God in their forehead Rev 9:4. It is obvious that the grass and the plants and the trees represented "men". And it would seem almost equally obvious that they are given in an ascending order ( of complexity of type of plant)/age of soul?

Although I do realize the Bible says that it is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgement ( Heb 9:27 ). The exact context of how it is used in the passage could certainly be debated. I could see where it might mean the ultimate death to the ego which would be the culmination of a souls journey. I'm not saying that the referenced passage necessarily supports that belief. Until I feel that I have a solid grasp of exactly what points Paul was trying to make I certainly wouldn't rule it out.

a reply to: windword

Oh... again, that's why you need to be spiritually minded.

Do you see that these people's spirits/will are battling against perceived falsehoods that others' are imaging because the image of the falsehood/lie corrupts the image of truth (the image of what we see in our spirits / the image(s) of love)?

And if we changed our words, so that they matched what the other saw in their spirit as truth, we would no longer battle/post against one another (unless the changes were thought to be disingenuous / they were thought to not truly be?)

Well, it is the same thing God is doing. Jesus' spirit/blood washes our sins, but our spirits still need to be true.

Now look back at my first post.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Rex282

Excellent post! Thank you!

The truth Yahoshua spoke was.. If you are not forgiven(freed from the bondage of their religion) you cannot free others from their religion.The order of forgiveness is understood backwards.The creator God first forgives you (frees you from the bondage of your religion) THEN you can forgive others (do unto others…)by preaching(stated by proclamation) the Good News… you WILL be freed.Yahoshua was making statements of “truth” not teaching methods of religion. Yahoshuas proclamation statements(preaching) is based in reason not religious methodology.

originally posted by: windword
Exactly!

I’m glad you got the jest of some of what I wrote however you did not get my main point on forgiveness. Yahoshua said it to mean freed from bondage…not pardoned of guilt.For example Yahoshua knew the pharisees are the one who set him up to be murdered.He called them before the act hypocrites,blind fools,white washed tombs full of dead mans bones,a brood of Vipers(which probably meant effin assholes).He knew what these men were.He dealt with them daily hell. they tried to murder him before they got him crucified.

Did Yahoshua ‘pardon them of their guilt”..... it sure doesn’t look like it by what he said to them.Did Yahoshua seem like a person to say one thing and mean and do another.It is clear he did not pardon them of their guilt(what they did..their actions) because they were guilty and neither will anyone else be pardoned of their guilt.

Man makes up religion to justify their actions…and that isn’t just herd religon(even though they have it perfected).Man walks around patting themselves on the back for how “good” they are.Some are so fooled they even believe they do not sin (are matured) anymore.The whole exhibit is a dog and pony show of “look what I can do mom!!!”.It’s ridiculous.Anyone that is doing good the left hand is not telling the right what it is doing.There is no back patting because as soon as there is, it’s just the self righteousness of “their religion”.

The religious carnal mans concept of moral and ethics is completely twisted.They believe somehow a right can right a wrong.That’s complete nonsense.Wrong is wrong and is always wrong.Every guilt of wrong will be accounted for.There is no pardoning of guilt.To focus in on the rules and methods of ethics and morals and not "be" in a state of being is to strain out gnats and swallow camels.

Religion perceives everything through the false eyes of their morals and ethics and they “judge others BY and through their morals and ethics(the tree of the knowledge of good and evil).Of course their tree acquits them of their guilt but condemns others.It is the nature of mans religion to “act” accordingly because they are always “judging others” by their standard but do not "righteously" judge themselves by it(they are acquitted)…and of course Christianity is the largest propagator of this perverted construct of “law”.It is cherry picking from their own tree by gorging themselves on the fruit of their own tree and spitting the pits at those that can’t live up to their standards.Yahoshua had much to say on this construct(Matthew 7) yet Christianity(and all religion) cannot hear it.

My suggestion is if you want to truly “follow” what Yahoshua said throw everything you think you know of what he said and did out..it is based on the wrong premise.Yahoshua is not “teaching” a method to anyone on how to be “good”.He (not Paul) clearly stated none are good.He was not teaching a new religion by religious method but was destroying religion!!I’m blown away that this is not COMPLETELY obvious.

The ones that seem to see it the most clearly are atheist.They steer clear of anything religion-religious(which is a good start).Many of them “know” not to follow what Yahoshua said as a method of righteousness because that isn’t what makes someone “good” it only makes them.... more religious!!

Yahoshua wasn’t saying here’s the method for the cure for your disease(sin) he said you are dying and will DIE of your disease however that’s a GOOD thing because THEN you can live.The very thing you believe is life is really death(full of dead mans bones).I don’t know how he could have been more obvious yet it fly’s a billion trillion light years over the religious minded man head.

The bottom line is forgiveness(freed from bondage of religion) is GOOD..very, very, very good.To believe Yahoshua meant anything else will only get a person stuck in their tree munching away on bad fruit…uhhh...cleanup on aisle 666….

a reply to: windword

I agree very much.

imho, It is very difficult to forgive those who 'take' something away from you, especially if that something is pride (family, ability, etc)

Holding a grudge is one of the most suffering experience imho, it affects the entire being, and maybe this is what Jesus means by 'Your Father will not forgive your sin if you dont forgive the sin of others'

But when you can easily forgive anyone, life becomes more lively and peaceful.
True Love imho is to accept things as they are. With acceptance, forgiveness is no longer a difficult thing to do.

peace

a reply to: windword

(Shakes head)

Adam is a mythical figure. whom, if he didn't exist, none of the Abrahamic religions would exist. But, mankind still would be here.

The idea that the biblical God can only justify forgiving his creation, for doing what he could only have known ahead time that they'd do, by accepting final sacrifice, a human sacrifice of HIS OWN human blood, shed while being unjustly murdered by an ungodly crowd, is ludicrous and sick. Add to that the idea that God will condemn anyone that can't wrap their head around the concept to eternal damnation in Hell!

But, I know that's how the doctrine is justified.

Well it sure sounds like you've got it all figured out. In the end, we'll see who has the better after-life: the one who accepts God's forgivness through the blood of Christ, or the one foolish enough to believe there is nothing to be forgiven of. We are all guilty of sin, it is our nature. If you say that there is no right or wrong, then you justify wickedness.


Is righteousness mutable or unchanging?

Or a better question are you greater than your creator?

a reply to: Rex282

I didn't miss your point, and I agree with almost everything that you say. Except, I don't see "Jesus Christ" as being a real historical figure. I do however, see that the bare bones of Christian theology has some good roots and truth.

You know that I know that we don't see eye to eye on this, but I believe that the "Yahoshua" that you believe existed as a real, flesh and bones man, was, in reality,"The Righteous Teacher" of the Essene sect, and that Jesus Christ is a composite character of this teacher and others figures as well. But, that's not what this thread is about, or why I posted it. I posted it for the exact reasons outlined in 99.9% of your very wonderful posts.

The bottom line is forgiveness(freed from bondage of religion) is GOOD..very, very, very good.To believe Yahoshua meant anything else will only get a person stuck in their tree munching away on bad fruit…uhhh...cleanup on aisle 666….

Yes. Forgiveness in this sense doesn't free an individual of the consequences of any crime. I truly believe that this scripture backs that up.

"Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

I think we carry our burden with us into the "afterlife", and work on our issues until we realize that we're free. Forever moving upward and forward, hopefully.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

In the end, we'll see who has the better after-life: the one who accepts God's forgivness through the blood of Christ, or the one foolish enough to believe there is nothing to be forgiven of.

It should read like this "We'll see who has the better after-life: the one who accepts God's forgiveness through the blood of Christ, or the one who accepts that they are forgiven by forgiving others".

And, yes it's true, I don't believe I have to apologize to anyone, let alone God, for being born a human being.

a reply to: Bleeeeep

I agree that the world is not a perfect place. But I don't believe in magic blood, shed 2000 years ago, that changes the effect of physical imperfection in the spiritual after life.

I don't believe in enemy devils that are trying to get us to do bad things to encourage God to send us to hell so that they can think that they've won some sort of victory over God. Again, Job resolved that wager.

a reply to: windword

Its the one who forgives because they were first forgiven by God.

Everyone is corrupt on some level. We choose that corruption, which falls short of our Creator's nature. That requires forgiveness. You cannot escape that fact, nor can you justify such behaviour without embracing evil at its root. If our current nature is allowed to flourish in Heaven, then Heaven will become as corrupt as earth is now. Dont you see that earth is so screwed up because of man? Is it not obvious?

a reply to: windword

jesus never existed. the character is no more real than mickey mouse.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: windword

Windword if I know you for anything it's for taking
scripture completely away from it's context. And your total
disbelief in the existence of Christ any way. So WTF are you
proving by being a hypocritical ass ?

So what is the correct context then? Many people can have their own interpretations of the scriptures, and i think windword raised an interesting point.

It appears to me that Christianity has been perverted over time... Something is wrong when people decide what constitutes correct or incorrect practices for others to follow. Something is wrong when everyone follows the teachings of people other than their messiah. Something is wrong when some core tenants of the religion contradict others in its bible.

If it were up to me, i would throw most of the baggage out and start again. I would keep the canonical gospels...get rid of Paul. It may even be worth looking up on non-canonical books and historical documents too.

a reply to: daaskapital but without Paul we miss out on Armageddon n stuff.

I don't know but I think they should add all the gospels.

I just finished reading the Gospel of Judas and it is kind of interesting.

It isn't that long of course there is some missing because this was the only known copy most were destroyed by the church. Have a read.www.nationalgeographic.com...

It makes a strong case for aliens.

Here is the story how they came across the copy that had been hidden for eons.ngm.nationalgeographic.com...