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originally posted by: HumanPLC
On that fact alone, surely it would be very easy to corroborate, or contradict what this girl is alleging.
The first problem is that this girl claims it happened in 1999, however, Andrew didn't know Epstein in 1999.
The first problem is that this girl claims it happened in 1999, however, Andrew didn't know Epstein in 1999.
Also the age of consent in the UK is 16....
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: daftpink
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: daftpink
originally posted by: liteonit6969
a reply to: stumason
What do you mean embarrassing? It isnt just sex.....it is rape...sex slave. This was without consent and is a crime. Anyone else would be in custody. I am sure alot more is going to come to light. I also remember that epstein had tried to hide his links to the Prince, now i see why.
Also Epstein has been linked to abusing children and thus by association Prince Andrew will be too. Thats why to attempt to cut ties and hide all.
Thank god someone finally speaking sense. Quite shocked at the blasé attitudes of MOST commenters on here.
This isn't a party where a girl had 1 too many drinks. She was used abused raped and tossed around parties as a sex slave by some of the most powerful men in the country.
Speaking out about these crimes is incredibly difficult and attitudes like the people on here are the reason why these victims stay quiet.
This is happening.
The truth is coming to the surface.
Please respect victims of rape and human trafficking sex slaves. It is rife and goes right up to the elite highest ranking powerful people.
Dismissing it in this way is utterly shocking and not what i thought I'd see on ATS.
No, she SAID that happened. It has not yet been proven to be true. Or would you prefer that we go directly from accusation to conviction and skip the hard evidence part?
Of course not and yes I should have put the word 'said' in my comment. But the rest of what I said was mostly aimed at the people who are belittling the accusations and immediately jumping to the conclusion that the girls in question are lying. It, sadly, is more likely that there is some truth in the story, given the extent of it linking to so many other factors about the sex slave child abuse revelations that continue to come out.
They are being revealed solely due to the VICTIMS of the said crimes, along with witnesses. I just feel that if an ATS member happened to be one of those victims (could happen) and read some of the comments here they would definitely be put off speaking up about their tragic story.
I wouldn't like to encourage that.
This is a case of "he said, she said". She has no DNA evidence. And she will have to prove she even knew Epstein. Sorry, unless she can prove it, you have to admit that it is shaky right now.
This supposedly happened in Florida, so if it happened in Florida then she can only have him tried in Florida.
See, she was already involved in an illegal operation, if she were a prostitute. Florida doesn't have legal prostitution. The defense better be finding some evidence.
originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: uncommitted
That would be like someone telling me I must visit someone else and have sex with them. Would that mean the person I had sex with raped me, or that the person who told me to go there actually committed the crime?
Technically two crimes have been committed and so both parties could be charged, if you went to the police and reported the offence.
originally posted by:
WarminIndy
a reply to: Stormdancer777
Oh, the same story as I posted the link of.
It says Andrew only met Epstein in 2000, but this girl is charging for something since 1999, she's making a false claim.
She was an erotic masseuse. How does a 17 year-old girl become that? She's still in high school at that age. Something is fishy about her.
originally posted by: daftpink
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: daftpink
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: daftpink
originally posted by: liteonit6969
a reply to: stumason
What do you mean embarrassing? It isnt just sex.....it is rape...sex slave. This was without consent and is a crime. Anyone else would be in custody. I am sure alot more is going to come to light. I also remember that epstein had tried to hide his links to the Prince, now i see why.
Also Epstein has been linked to abusing children and thus by association Prince Andrew will be too. Thats why to attempt to cut ties and hide all.
Thank god someone finally speaking sense. Quite shocked at the blasé attitudes of MOST commenters on here.
This isn't a party where a girl had 1 too many drinks. She was used abused raped and tossed around parties as a sex slave by some of the most powerful men in the country.
Speaking out about these crimes is incredibly difficult and attitudes like the people on here are the reason why these victims stay quiet.
This is happening.
The truth is coming to the surface.
Please respect victims of rape and human trafficking sex slaves. It is rife and goes right up to the elite highest ranking powerful people.
Dismissing it in this way is utterly shocking and not what i thought I'd see on ATS.
No, she SAID that happened. It has not yet been proven to be true. Or would you prefer that we go directly from accusation to conviction and skip the hard evidence part?
Of course not and yes I should have put the word 'said' in my comment. But the rest of what I said was mostly aimed at the people who are belittling the accusations and immediately jumping to the conclusion that the girls in question are lying. It, sadly, is more likely that there is some truth in the story, given the extent of it linking to so many other factors about the sex slave child abuse revelations that continue to come out.
They are being revealed solely due to the VICTIMS of the said crimes, along with witnesses. I just feel that if an ATS member happened to be one of those victims (could happen) and read some of the comments here they would definitely be put off speaking up about their tragic story.
I wouldn't like to encourage that.
This is a case of "he said, she said". She has no DNA evidence. And she will have to prove she even knew Epstein. Sorry, unless she can prove it, you have to admit that it is shaky right now.
This supposedly happened in Florida, so if it happened in Florida then she can only have him tried in Florida.
See, she was already involved in an illegal operation, if she were a prostitute. Florida doesn't have legal prostitution. The defense better be finding some evidence.
As with many other people on here you are missing the point completely. Not prostitute but SEX SLAVE who was raped. There is a huge difference. Your ignorance isn't my responsibility.
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: WarminIndy
It was a federal charge, meaning he could be tried anywhere in the federal court system. There is also the issue of Epstein only serving 15 months and her claim she never agreed to the resolution as required.
Well, a big issue is this, the same story has been going around since 2007. This is not a new story. The first problem is that this girl claims it happened in 1999, however, Andrew didn't know Epstein in 1999.
Andrew isn't the only one named, also Alan Dershowitz, a law professor. The problem here is this, if the girls were teenagers who flew around to all those places, like the Virgin Islands, how is it their parents never knew they were out of the country? And if they were missing, surely their parents reported it to the police.
But here's the case, underage girls approached by an accomplice of Epstein, their parents don't report them missing or kidnapped or even runaways and they are flown out of the country without their parents even suspecting they were missing.
I find it very strange that if these girls were indeed missing, because they had been kidnapped, then why did no one report it?
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: daftpink
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: daftpink
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: daftpink
originally posted by: liteonit6969
a reply to: stumason
What do you mean embarrassing? It isnt just sex.....it is rape...sex slave. This was without consent and is a crime. Anyone else would be in custody. I am sure alot more is going to come to light. I also remember that epstein had tried to hide his links to the Prince, now i see why.
Also Epstein has been linked to abusing children and thus by association Prince Andrew will be too. Thats why to attempt to cut ties and hide all.
Thank god someone finally speaking sense. Quite shocked at the blasé attitudes of MOST commenters on here.
This isn't a party where a girl had 1 too many drinks. She was used abused raped and tossed around parties as a sex slave by some of the most powerful men in the country.
Speaking out about these crimes is incredibly difficult and attitudes like the people on here are the reason why these victims stay quiet.
This is happening.
The truth is coming to the surface.
Please respect victims of rape and human trafficking sex slaves. It is rife and goes right up to the elite highest ranking powerful people.
Dismissing it in this way is utterly shocking and not what i thought I'd see on ATS.
No, she SAID that happened. It has not yet been proven to be true. Or would you prefer that we go directly from accusation to conviction and skip the hard evidence part?
Of course not and yes I should have put the word 'said' in my comment. But the rest of what I said was mostly aimed at the people who are belittling the accusations and immediately jumping to the conclusion that the girls in question are lying. It, sadly, is more likely that there is some truth in the story, given the extent of it linking to so many other factors about the sex slave child abuse revelations that continue to come out.
They are being revealed solely due to the VICTIMS of the said crimes, along with witnesses. I just feel that if an ATS member happened to be one of those victims (could happen) and read some of the comments here they would definitely be put off speaking up about their tragic story.
I wouldn't like to encourage that.
This is a case of "he said, she said". She has no DNA evidence. And she will have to prove she even knew Epstein. Sorry, unless she can prove it, you have to admit that it is shaky right now.
This supposedly happened in Florida, so if it happened in Florida then she can only have him tried in Florida.
See, she was already involved in an illegal operation, if she were a prostitute. Florida doesn't have legal prostitution. The defense better be finding some evidence.
As with many other people on here you are missing the point completely. Not prostitute but SEX SLAVE who was raped. There is a huge difference. Your ignorance isn't my responsibility.
Actually, and I'm sure this will come as a shock, most females (teens and adult women-- not children) who are trafficked intend to work as prostitutes in order to escape horrible home lives. They are recruited by people who promise them that they will be able to work off their "debt" in several years and be free to then do whatever they want. Of course, they are lied to and once they have left home with the recruiters they become sex slaves and are sold repeatedly and moved about. Nothing about this makes it OK that they've become enslaved and trafficked but it is important to realize that most initially voluntarily entered prostitution. In other words, most were not snatched off the street and enslaved. The legal question often becomes at what point they were no longer voluntarily working as prostitutes and were forced to became sex slaves. Even most of the sex slaves get paid.
Putting this into the context of the situation under discussion, there's probably going to be a question of when the young woman voluntarily prostituted herself and when, if ever, she was involuntarily prostituted/trafficked. There's also the matter of whether the men she allegedly serviced knew she was a prostitute or knew she was being trafficked or thought she was simply a party girl looking for a good time. I'm not trying to paint any scenario in which this is OK, but legally it makes a huge difference.
originally posted by: daftpink
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: daftpink
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: daftpink
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: daftpink
originally posted by: liteonit6969
a reply to: stumason
What do you mean embarrassing? It isnt just sex.....it is rape...sex slave. This was without consent and is a crime. Anyone else would be in custody. I am sure alot more is going to come to light. I also remember that epstein had tried to hide his links to the Prince, now i see why.
Also Epstein has been linked to abusing children and thus by association Prince Andrew will be too. Thats why to attempt to cut ties and hide all.
Thank god someone finally speaking sense. Quite shocked at the blasé attitudes of MOST commenters on here.
This isn't a party where a girl had 1 too many drinks. She was used abused raped and tossed around parties as a sex slave by some of the most powerful men in the country.
Speaking out about these crimes is incredibly difficult and attitudes like the people on here are the reason why these victims stay quiet.
This is happening.
The truth is coming to the surface.
Please respect victims of rape and human trafficking sex slaves. It is rife and goes right up to the elite highest ranking powerful people.
Dismissing it in this way is utterly shocking and not what i thought I'd see on ATS.
No, she SAID that happened. It has not yet been proven to be true. Or would you prefer that we go directly from accusation to conviction and skip the hard evidence part?
Of course not and yes I should have put the word 'said' in my comment. But the rest of what I said was mostly aimed at the people who are belittling the accusations and immediately jumping to the conclusion that the girls in question are lying. It, sadly, is more likely that there is some truth in the story, given the extent of it linking to so many other factors about the sex slave child abuse revelations that continue to come out.
They are being revealed solely due to the VICTIMS of the said crimes, along with witnesses. I just feel that if an ATS member happened to be one of those victims (could happen) and read some of the comments here they would definitely be put off speaking up about their tragic story.
I wouldn't like to encourage that.
This is a case of "he said, she said". She has no DNA evidence. And she will have to prove she even knew Epstein. Sorry, unless she can prove it, you have to admit that it is shaky right now.
This supposedly happened in Florida, so if it happened in Florida then she can only have him tried in Florida.
See, she was already involved in an illegal operation, if she were a prostitute. Florida doesn't have legal prostitution. The defense better be finding some evidence.
As with many other people on here you are missing the point completely. Not prostitute but SEX SLAVE who was raped. There is a huge difference. Your ignorance isn't my responsibility.
Actually, and I'm sure this will come as a shock, most females (teens and adult women-- not children) who are trafficked intend to work as prostitutes in order to escape horrible home lives. They are recruited by people who promise them that they will be able to work off their "debt" in several years and be free to then do whatever they want. Of course, they are lied to and once they have left home with the recruiters they become sex slaves and are sold repeatedly and moved about. Nothing about this makes it OK that they've become enslaved and trafficked but it is important to realize that most initially voluntarily entered prostitution. In other words, most were not snatched off the street and enslaved. The legal question often becomes at what point they were no longer voluntarily working as prostitutes and were forced to became sex slaves. Even most of the sex slaves get paid.
Putting this into the context of the situation under discussion, there's probably going to be a question of when the young woman voluntarily prostituted herself and when, if ever, she was involuntarily prostituted/trafficked. There's also the matter of whether the men she allegedly serviced knew she was a prostitute or knew she was being trafficked or thought she was simply a party girl looking for a good time. I'm not trying to paint any scenario in which this is OK, but legally it makes a huge difference.
No shock to me, i have worked with these victims first hand. Due to confidentiality i won't go into details here but lets make this clear, they are always victims.
originally posted by: Tangerine
a reply to: Loopdaloop
Where's the evidence?
originally posted by: Tangerine
a reply to: Loopdaloop
Could you be massively short of evidence? Yes.
Diana Believed The
Valet - Paul Burrell
By Gary Jones And Steve Dennis
The Mirror - UK
11-11-3
The former valet at the centre of the royal crisis is only standing up for what he thinks is right, says Paul Burrell.
Diana's ex-butler tells the Daily Mirror today that the princess believed George Smith when she recorded the now-notorious "rape tape".
And he blames palace panic for the storm surrounding Charles over further allegations by Smith that he witnessed an "incident" involving the prince and another servant.
Burrell says of Smith: "He is a good man and an old friend, who doesn't have a bad bone in his body.
"But he, like myself, will stand up for what he believes is right and wrong."
Burrell - still in the US on a book tour - says Smith's claim that he was raped by another servant was accepted by Diana. She "believed his every word" on that allegation.
However, Burrell stressed that the princess did not confide in him her thoughts on the alleged incident said to involve Charles
The prince denies any part and says the incident did not take place. Burrell says the public denial only "fanned the flames".
He spoke out for Smith after Charles' aide Sir Michael Peat referred to the ex-valet's drink habit and mental problems.
Burrell says the "rape tape" - now missing - could "answer some questions". He does not know where it is.
Yesterday Charles talked with William and partner Camilla Parker Bowles at Highgrove. As Camilla left by car, an onlooker said: "She looked like she had the weight of the world on her shoulders."
Clarence House was unconcerned about details of the allegations being printed in Scotland and added: "Obviously, we hope this will be the end of it."
Simon Solari, 46, who worked closely with Charles and Diana for 15 years, said the "incident" could not have happened. Charles was being "unfairly maligned".
The Royal Household operated a "very strict system on military lines, with specific servants having specific roles".
© owned by or licensed to Trinity Mirror Digital Media Limited 2001.
www.mirror.co.uk...=13611494_method=
full_siteid=50143_headline=-PAUL%2DBURRELL%2D%2DDIANA%2DBELIEVED%2D
THE%2DVALET-name_page.html
Edwardian house at heart of a long-simmering sex scandal
Calls for full inquiry as allegations of 1980s abuse by 'powerful paedophile network' in London resurface
The handsome Edwardian house that was formerly Elm Guest House, near Barnes, in south-west London, was long ago converted into flats. Its eight guest rooms were rearranged into two-bedroom apartments, each worth today more than £500,000. Estate agents say that among the property's greatest attractions are its transport links.
Some 30 years ago, the convenient location was similarly appealing. "It is just over Hammersmith bridge, is well served by underground and bus services and by British Rail and is near the M4, A3, A4 and A40," said a newsletter published in 1982 by a Tory fringe organisation, the Conservative Group for Homosexual Equality. "The facilities include a sauna, solarium and video studio."
Two months later, Elm Guest House was raided by police and its owners, Haroon and Carole Kasir, were convicted at the Old Bailey of running a brothel.
The Kasirs had allowed a small industry to bloom in their establishment. Male prostitutes had found it a convenient place to take clients and it was probably perceived as a safe retreat for gay men in a society which, despite the legalisation of homosexual acts in 1967, was still profoundly homophobic. After Carole Kasir's suicide in 1990, that was, perhaps, how some would have liked the story of Elm Guest House to have ended.
Today, however, this suburban house is at the heart of a simmering scandal threatening to boil over and take with it the reputations of a swath of the political class of the 1970s and 1980s.
In 2012 Tom Watson, the Labour MP who played a key role in exposing the phone-hacking scandal at the News of the World, stood up in parliament to ask the prime minister to ensure that a dossier of information used in 1992 to convict a notorious paedophile called Peter Righton was examined thoroughly. Watson said he believed the file, if it still existed, would provide some evidence of a "powerful paedophile network linked to parliament and No 10".
Watson's comments, in part, prompted the Metropolitan police to set up Operation Fernbridge. Claims have since materialised about boys from Grafton Close Children's Home in Hounslow, west London, being taken to Elm Guest House, plied with alcohol and abused.
Cyril Smith, the late Liberal MP, accused since his death in 2010 of being an inveterate child abuser, is said to have regularly visited the property. Other names, some household figures, swirl around the internet.
Back in 1983, Geoffrey Dickens, a Tory MP, had got wind of something of this. He compiled a dossier, telling his family it was "explosive" and would "blow the lid" on powerful and famous child abusers. The dossier was handed over to the then home secretary, Leon Brittan, who acknowledged receipt in a letter and suggested the police had been informed. "In general terms, the view of the Director of Public Prosecutions is that two of the letters you forwarded could form the basis for enquiries by the police and they are now being passed to the appropriate authorities," he wrote. Nothing was heard of the Dickens dossier again.
Last year, after further questions by Watson, the Home Office searched for Dickens's files. It couldn't find them.
Pressed last week, the prime minister ordered another look. "I've asked the permanent secretary at the Home Office to do everything he can to find answers to all of these questions and to make sure we can reassure people about these events," David Cameron told reporters.
Yet as the Observer reveals today, the Dickens dossier was just one of 114 potentially relevant files found to be missing by officials when they did their initial search. "The public are going to think something fishy is going on and who could blame them," www.theguardian.com...
originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
I just want to drop in and say:
you apologists make me sick. Anyone with a working brain can see that the elite of our wourld are sick, twisted perverts with a passion for abuse and violence.
a reply to: HUMBLEONE
BRAVO MY DEAR CAGLIOSTRO THE GREAT!!! Let them make excuses for their lords and masters. But we shall have none of it! Familiar slavery is more of a comfort to them than unfamiliar freedom. So we the courageous shall step forward into the light of the new world. Let them remain and worship the parasites in ridiculous costumes, hysterical hats and the old coots carrying swords. What a comedic spectacle the self proclaimed elite are, be they germanic royalty or hollywoods idiocracy.
originally posted by: Tangerine
Actually, and I'm sure this will come as a shock, most females (teens and adult women-- not children) who are trafficked intend to work as prostitutes in order to escape horrible home lives.