Asuras, possible Esoteric attempts at describing Schizophrenics?

Hi all, I am typing this thread trying to attempt a relation with the mythological Asuras(Buddhism) and their esoteric meanings as being an attempt to explain or give the idea of the disorder. Now it commonly held by popular belief that hearing voices is considered the work of the Devil by popular Christianity, where it considered a possible attempt at possession by a demon. I believe that Buddhism was trying to hit the nail with a hammer at trying to explain how it works and how it can become more bearable to handle with their own esoterics.

Schizophrenia's symptoms are usually hallucinations, delusions of reality, disorganized thinking, and problems with motor control whether it mental or physical. How such symptoms act or behave heavily relates to what they believe or how their brain processes their thought, where it ranges from auditorial to split personas, to various behaviors of mentally challenged or extreme fits of rage.

It is believed that Asuras are the lowest of the divine beings, where they are believed to be heavily physical, and are to be driven by passions or the Seven Sins if you will. They are envious of the Devas whom are considered the highest form of attainment in life, and which are generally depicted as calm beings who have mastered their impulses, and can't be tempted, and live a easy life with little to no conflict as being their sin(Quite the sin huh?). Asuras are believed to be paranoid and are competitive in nature whether it with other Asuras or their counter part, the Devas, as they believe that they are the highest form of life and deserve the joy or fruits of Karma(Heaven if you will) that the Devas are said to have worked for in previous lives.

Asuras are depicted with having many faces, and 4 limbs, where as I'd like to make some correlation between certain illnesses, like split personas invading ones perception of reality, where as the faces display anger, happiness, sadness, or just apathy. Where it would feel like their face was stolen and replaced with another. Or even the loss of motor control in ones limbs, where it feel like another hand was pulling someones strings of consciousness, since it probably takes alot of concentration to control that many hands. Also the fact that certain schizophrenics have much more strength then healthy people, where this could be caused by the state of paranoia, inducing adrenaline possibly.

There is also another Demon in Buddhism named "Mara", where it believed that he tempts the Buddha with visions of beautiful women(Sounds like the christian "Succubus") where he personifies un-wanted impulses, lack of skills, and is said to bring a spiritual death or ruin. Where he is a tempter of sorts, attempting to prevent Buddhas completion of enlightenment.

I would like to make more attempts at making more correlations of the Buddhist esoterics among others, and real life illnesses, however I feel it better left generalized. Anyways hope the thread was somewhat informative or present-ful.

While I don't believe in in Past Lives and such that entails Buddist teachings, I'll entertain that as the angle you wish to go from for this thread.


What I would correct is that split personalities is nothing to do with Schizophrenia.
Although that is what popular culture & even Mental Healthcare has alluded to in the past, it's recently been realised that it's a completely different disorder.



One is about the delusions of ones purpose or abilities in life...
The other is actually living with numerous personas...



I know that's not the meat of your topic, I just thought you might like to know.




The symptoms of certain types of Schizophrenia are too dangerous to connect to any Spiritual connection, or "ability" so to speak...
Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar.



Having lived with "hallucinations" auditory & visual, sometimes combining together...
My own personal experience I have never seen things that appeared to be fleshy, more holographic...

I cannot speak for others but for me, that's helped me to understand when I'm "seeing things"...
If they appeared as the fleshy realm does to me, I think I'd have a more advanced "illness".

Just adding some information about Asuras..


In my studies, I was surprised to find that the terms Deva and Asura were also terms used in Zoroastrianism, which was (at the least) contemporary to Buddhism.

I am not sure of the history of Zoroastrianism, but the religion and culture which influenced Zoroaster/Zarathustra supposedly pre-dates the Vedas. The oldest Vedas are from 1000 BCE, so I would imagine that the origins of Zoroastrianism predated it.

One thing seems certain and that is that Zoroastrianism predated Buddhism.

---

In Zoroastrianism the relationship between the Daevas and Ahuras were different.

"Furthermore, there is no direct opposition between the ahuras and the daevas: The fundamental opposition in Zoroastrianism is between asha (truth) and druj (falsehood). The relationship between the ahuras and daevas is an expression of that opposition: on the one hand, the ahuras, like all of the other yazatas, are defenders of asha. On the other hand, the daevas are, in the earliest texts, deities that are to be rejected because they are misled by "the lie""
en.wikipedia.org...


So in Zorastrianism, it was the Daevas which was sort of the "bad" guys.

---

In the Rig Veda, the Asuras were not so minor as entities.

"in the earliest text, the Rigveda, the asuras preside over moral and social phenomena. Among the asuras are Varuna, the guardian of Rta" - en.wikipedia.org...

"In the Vedic religion, Ṛta (Sanskrit ऋतं ṛtaṃ "that which is properly joined; order, rule; truth") is the principle of natural order which regulates and coordinates the operation of the universe and everything within it." - en.wikipedia.org...


"neither the Rigveda's asuras nor the Gathas' daevas are 'demons'. In each case, the demonization of the entities occurred after those respective texts were composed: the demonisation of the asuras in post-Rigvedic India and the demonisation of the daevas in Zoroastrian Iran took place "so late that the associated terms cannot be considered a feature of Indo-Iranian religious dialectology"."
en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Specimen

Are you saying that people who are Schizophrenic are Asura's?

originally posted by: Specimen
Now it commonly held by popular belief that hearing voices is considered the work of the Devil by popular Christianity, where it considered a possible attempt at possession by a demon.

There are also many stories from Christianity of hearing the voices of Angels. And focus on the ability to discern the difference.

My personal experience with both voices, seeing beings, evil sounds and lights/UFOs leaves me suspect that technology plays a part in a mass deception. Enlightenment to me is acknowledging the truth of my own existence.

Very nice thread and discussion, Specimen. Your name sure suits you as you have some rather unique viewpoints. I remember when you first started posting and I noted both your interesting take on certain subjects and your, um, eccentricity haha. I luvs me some eccentrics, btw, and I always enjoy taking a look at things through your eyes.

The following vid is from my thread Dalai Lama Consults Trance Channeled Entities! Rare Video and is one of the most fascinating videos I have ever seen especially when the "Oracle" goes into trance/possession before the Dalai Lama.

There are actually three instances of the trance state shown with two separate oracles. There are also some really good links and excerpts in that thread that discuss the activity--and even rivalry--between these very powerful trance channeled spirits. You WILL believe haha.



Keep up the great work.

The astral worlds are said to be seperated, similar to earth the same way that human beings live on the surface of the earth, worms inside the soil, bugs in soil, fish in water, and birds in air, so in the astral worlds astral beings of different grades or types are assigned to suitable vibratory quarters. This also reminds me of marvel comics the Jack Kirbys Eternals and Deviants.

Well one might think there would be no wars in the astral worlds but they may be wrong. It has been said that among the fallen dark angels or astral light beings, some have heard of legends of the anti gods, which have been expelled from other worlds, friction and war take place with various powers or siddhis. I can see how every power from our popular comic books might be employed by the use of these powers. I guess one might be considered an astral hero or villan, and for those who consider themselves such begin to wage an eternal struggle in the astral worlds. Technology used would be considered lifetronic bombs, using light to create weapons and crafts which move faster than light, and countless types of mental mantric vibratory rays. These beings known as the anti gods or astral super villans caught up in an eternal struggle are unable to give up thier destructive ways therefor dwell in the darkness of mind or doom and gloom mentality, fear and oppression drench those regions of the lower astral cosmos, working out their endless evil karma, harming thier fellow beings, sunk in the darkness of false ego, and temporary gain. Much like evil the wizards of dungeons and dragons these guys dont know when to stop thier vile and wicked ways. What really gets them is that the gods rule the astral and casual universes and they live in an eternal strife in the hopes of unseating the astral gods who rule the heavens above them. Reminds me of the Sayians from Dragon Ball Z, always looking to destroy another planet and love battle over peace, caring nothing for love and life which does not serve thier egocentric wishes.

"In the vast heavenly astral realms above the dark astral prison which the anti gods dwell in beneath, all is shining and beautiful. The astral cosmos is said to be more naturally attuned than the earth to the astral beings wishes and the divine will and plan of perfection. These beings I would imagine are much like Q from Star Trek and are capable of forming the world around them according to thier will, as well as performing acts of great power at thier whims.

To think we may be born in an asura world is interesting, heres a thought what if ouur souls took births on every world both good and bad infinatly.

Very cool proposition, it is possible, and certainly a number of seemingly demon-possessed individuals would have been the subject of note at the time


a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
Allow me to correct you on your correction. Dissociative Identity Disorder (the proper term) is not numerous personae, it is a compartmentalised fragmentation of ONE persona. Thats why the name changed from MPD, to more accurately represent the condition. Each "persona" is not whole. More like a stereotype.


a reply to: nOraKat
Buddhism branched off from Hinduism, which in turn came from the same source as Zoroastrianism, that is Vedic Brahmanism. Hopefully im recalling this correctly, there appeared to be a split in cultures at a certain point in history, where one group (Indo-Iranians) wanted to be monotheistic and went with Zoroastrianism, the other group stayed polytheistic. Anyhow I dont remember which was which, but one group considered Devas and Asuras to be angels and devils, and the other group devils and angels (reverse morality). It seems like each tribe had their personal deities and demonised those of the other tribe when they split.

originally posted by: caladonea
a reply to: Specimen

Are you saying that people who are Schizophrenic are Asura's?

I'd go as far to say he's saying certain people may be Asuras...

Well, for the most part yes, but I'm just using an ignorant point of view or belief that goes with most superstitions. Like the belief of possession by an entity of sorts, however compared to modern medicine such superstitions are thrown out the window, where there are many form of mental ailments that are documented. Although I'm not very versed in the psychology of medical science to make such accurate accusations, nor would I want anyone to think they are some demonic entity that needs to work on karma for that matter.

However the idea of people having invading personalities or powerful figments of imagination coming from within the mind may have been associated with the creature, or other esoteric taboos. Where these mental manifestations become a taboo of sorts with the Buddhist version of the Asura and there pracitces of the nihlistic state of mind or peace. Where if they are the second highest and lowest of divine creatures in the cycle of life, then it would kind of make sense that there would be some problems whether mentally or spiritually( maybe both) trying to attain a form of mental enlightenment and that it would be an obvious obstacle to the practice.

As for the mythology on the Asuras well it seems to go pretty far back, where they came from Hinduism originally. From what I've read, they can be the hindu version of the Abrahamic depictions of Angels. They can be violent spirits serving a higher power, using violent act to do good just like an angel threatening a man with his donkey.

Also how some schizophrenics can be incredibly dangerous is also true, where I've even heard a story of one of my family members whom I've never met or ever will from what I've heard about him. Last time I checked he needed body guards and not for his personal safety ether. And the fact how a lot mental ill people can summon such strength at time could also relate to the esoteric.

The video kind of sums it up.

Im just gonna be like the Buddha and the Devas, and watch from the safety of that tree.

If you know a voice hearer tell them to try the (visualized intent and control) method. They will eventually learn to gain power over the lies that attempt to harm them.