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'Fix Society': Transgender Teen Posted Plea Before Suicide

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posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 10:02 PM
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The problem I have is the "she" thing. I have no problem with he wanted to identify as a female and his sexual preference. But when we start calling apples oranges it puts me in a weird place and I have to pinch myself. He would still be a male and have to check it off on any job application like the rest of us males. At the end of the day this young man ended his life over what others thought of him. I can only say that we are conditioned to seek approval of others and caring about what people think is pointless . The issue is not so much about discrimination imo but this very thing .... it is no way to live and most people straight , gay , by , fat , skinny , ethnic , religious , rich and poor WANT TO FIT IN. And they spend thier entire existence trying. On another note people suicide over being gay in high numbers. I knew a lesbian that killed herself because her father did not accept her. Sad, I vowed to never be that man and would accept my children and support thier choices no matter what. And never give a F what society thinks. It is a good start. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
edit on 4-1-2015 by DarthFazer because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 10:03 PM
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a reply to: snarky412

I know this may be a bit off topic. But this story only strengthens my belief in reincarnation. I feel in a previous life, this person was perhaps a woman, and in this life was born into a male body, but knew that she had the soul of a woman, not a man. Sometimes nature messes up, and this is a prime example of it. I think this could explain why so many transgenders exist. It is not genetic, these people are born as they are meant to be, but just because they are born into the wrong shell (human body), does not mean we as society get to dictate who they need to be. So sad, may she find peace now...



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 10:08 PM
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originally posted by: DarthFazer
The problem I have is the "she" thing. I have no problem with he wanted to identify as a female and his sexual preference. But when we star calling apples oranges it puts me in a weird place and I have to pinch myself. He would still be a male and have to check it off on any job application like the rest of us males. At the end of the day this young man ended his life over what others thought of him. I can only say that we are conditioned to seek approval of others and caring about what people think is pointless . The issue is not so much about discrimination imo but this very thing .... it is no way to live and most people straight , gay , by , fat , skinny , ethnic , religious , rich and poor WANT TO FIT IN. And they spend thier entire existence trying.


It puts you in a weird place, it causes us actual pain and anguish. Which feeling is more significant to the health and well being of the people dealing with it?

Does being in a weird place, really and truly harm you that much? Do you truly think your feeling a bit weirded out is more important than another person suffering and hurting?



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 10:26 PM
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originally posted by: schuyler
We have 7 billion people in the world. Why do 7 billion people have to change to accommodate a few hundred? The whole idea of "transgendered people" is bogus in the extreme.


I agree with that statement to a certain point. You can't make everyone in the world happy no matter what you do. There is always going to be someone or a group of people that will speak out because of something they don't like.

Being bisexual, I don't expect no one in this world to like me or accommodate me based on my sexuality. And I know people who don't like homosexuals. There are too many people on this planet to be caught up with the ones who don't accept you for who you are. If someone doesn't accept you for who are then forget them and move on.

Sometimes, people just need to get over certain things and grow a thick skin. It's a cruel world we live in and that's never going to change. Not everyone is going to accept someone for who they are, what they believe in, etc. That's life....get over it.

In my opinion, it's messed up when someone tries to off themselves because they don't feel accepted by society. No one shouldn't let anyone stop them from living their life and if they do shame on them because it's a gift to be different and no one should forget that.



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 10:55 PM
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mental illness should not be played with.



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 11:18 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

Alcorn on Tumblr complained that her parents only let her see Christian therapists who told her she "should look to God for help."

Does God approve of drugging your child with Prozac?


"I never actually got the therapy I needed to cure me of my depression," she wrote on Tumblr. On Reddit, in a post she titled, "I'm sure someone on here can convince me not to kill myself," she wrote she was taking what is a powerful (and popular, albeit older) anti-depressant. "I've been on prozac for about a year, and my dosages have been going up every couple months or so," she wrote one month ago. "I'm currently taking 60 mg every morning." The FDA states antidepressants, including Prozac, may increase the risk of suicide in children and adolescents. Also, the popular website Drugs.com suggests the maximum dosage for people 18 and younger is 20 mg. per day in most, though not all cases. Leelah wrote she was taking 60 mg.


www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com...



Annie, from what I could find on this "therapist" only exacerbates the situation worse


In Leelah's suicide note, it described being rejected by her Christian parents and forced into conversion therapy

So what is 'conversion therapy' exactly



Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual, or to convince a transgender person to give up the gender they identify as and instead identify with the sex and gender they were assigned at birth. In recent decades, such treatments have been increasingly criticized for being pseudo-scientific. Conversion therapy has been a source of controversy in the United States and other countries.


WIKI


The highest-profile contemporary advocates of conversion therapy tend to be fundamentalist Christian groups and other right-wing religious organizations and the therapy is derided by critics as "pray the gay away"

Oh that's rich....let's "pray the gay away"
Talk about having a phobia
Doesn't sound very Christian like



Psychologist Douglas Haldeman writes that conversion therapy comprises efforts by mental health professionals and pastoral care providers to convert lesbians and gay men to heterosexuality by techniques including aversive treatments, such as "the application of electric shock to the hands and/or genitals," and "nausea-inducing drugs...administered simultaneously with the presentation of homoerotic stimuli," masturbatory reconditioning, visualization, social skills training, psychoanalytic therapy, and spiritual interventions, such as "prayer and group support and pressure."[10]



Now that Leelah/Joshua's death has sparked national attention, people are trying to get 'Conversion therapy' banned

Also noted is conversion therapy leads to high suicide rates as well for those being treated by it
So that quack therapy along with prozac and lack of support from the family = disaster/tragedy


A petition to ban gender-conversion therapy, created in response to the death of transgender 17-year-old Leelah Alcorn, has garnered more than 200,000 signatures in two days.


The petition from the Transgender Human Rights Institute asks President Barack Obama, Sen. Harry Reid and Rep. Nancy Pelosi to “immediately seek a pathway for banning the practice known as “transgender conversion therapy.”


Petition to ban Conversion Therapy

Only 2 states right now have it banned....NJ & CA, with DC pending on it

Man, that is just crazy

I may be flamed for saying this but yes, part of the blame lies at the feet of the parents for not listening to their child in need and for taking this barbaric approach of help, instead of giving moral support and understanding which the kid clearly was wanting and taking them to a NORMAL unbiased therapist outside of the church



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 11:33 PM
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a reply to: Entreri06



We really need a better understanding of the brain and brain chemistry. That way we can scan them and know with some real accuracy. Sadly I bet it's not even that cut and dry. We are all probubally different with a 1000 different levels inbetween.


There have been many studies on the brain regarding this

Here is one study done on 'white brain matter'



They found significant differences between male and female brains in four regions of white matter – and the female-to-male transsexual people had white matter in these regions that resembled a male brain (Journal of Psychiatric Research, DOI: 10.1016/j.jpsychires.2010.05.006). "It's the first time it has been shown that the brains of female-to-male transsexual people are masculinised," Guillamon says.

In a separate study, the team used the same technique to compare white matter in 18 male-to-female transsexual people with that in 19 males and 19 females. Surprisingly, in each transsexual person's brain the structure of the white matter in the four regions was halfway between that of the males and females (Journal of Psychiatric Research, DOI: 10.1016/j.jpsychires.2010.11.007). "Their brains are not completely masculinised and not completely feminised, but they still feel female," says Guillamon.

Guillamon isn't sure whether the four regions are at all associated with notions of gender, but Ivanka Savic-Berglund at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden, thinks they might be. One of the four regions – the superior longitudinal fascicle – is particularly interesting, she says. "It connects the parietal lobe [involved in sensory processing] and frontal lobe [involved in planning movement] and may have implications in body perception."



A 2010 study of 121 transgender people found that 38% realised they had gender variance by age 5. White matter differences could provide independent confirmation that such children might benefit from treatment to delay puberty


From what I have been reading, it's not like a kid says, "Oh hey, I no longer want to be a boy" nor is it a myth
Many claim that transgender identity is just what kids pick up from the media & TV shows
That their surroundings may have an influence on their decision

But there are still many theories on what causes kids to be this way, but it seems that they are focusing on brain matter
And the fact that they are born with it suggests it's not a thing that just gets picked up by society

It's just that the brain matter they are studying is too small to pick up in infants...

Jan. 2011

A study by Sean Deoni's team at King's College London suggests it may soon be possible to look for these differences in such children. Deoni's team adapted an MRI scanner to be as quiet as possible so it could be used to monitor the development of white matter in sleeping infants. Using new image analysis software they could track when and where myelin – the neuron covering that makes white matter white – was laid down (Journal of Neuroscience, vol 31, p 784). Although the sample was too small to identify any gender differences in development, Deoni expects to see differences developing in the brain "by 2 or 3 years of age".


SOURCE


So maybe in time, scientists can hopefully better understand what causes this in some people



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 11:37 PM
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a reply to: snarky412

To be honest, I don't know to what extent Leelah's Christian based therapy went.

Just so we don't pick on Christians --- there's JONAH --- a Jewish Reparative Therapy group.

Read about these 4 guys: usnews.nbcnews.com...





edit on 4-1-2015 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 11:53 PM
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originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: criticalhit

I'm just not going to go the chemical poisoned environment in this thread. Or that there is an increase, as that is impossible to calculate, as people with genetic differences tended to be hidden until very recently.

Every human descended from the original "prototype" could be considered a mutation, including all variations of gender and sexual differences.

Reproduction is extremely complicated. When stirring the pot of all that is required to make another human, all variations are not only possible, but probable.








Id say this, the reality of the increase isn't something that needs to be calculated, it's apparent.

I'm a pretty well read guy and homosexuality of course has always been around, mainly in the form we see in the animal kindgdom, Top and Bottom, Dominate and Submissive but what we are seeing now is different, often a complete displacement of sexuality, the feeling of "being in the wrong body" not from a role swap perspective many have enjoyed over the centuries but rather the intensity of a mind wired wholly female in a male body or vice versa was just... never common like it is today.

And what you say "all variations probable" sure... I agree, but not common. And lets be very, very real this is a "hot topic" not because a handful of people are being born this way, no, no... it can't be because of "freedom" either because we aren't the first to have that.. It's because A LOT of people are experiencing the Transgender phenomena at this time and certainly there are REAL reasons for that.

Homosexuality has been a public issue in many civilizations, it's been around a long time with many people exhibiting the behavior, it's been public issue before, even going to the crusty old Bible it was a societal issue... Transgender behavior was not it's not really mentioned as a "social condition" large numbers of people didn't exhibit the condition in the past...

But they are now... I wont push the subject but to me the most important question here is Why?



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 12:04 AM
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Seek and ye shall find.

Transgenderism, transsexualism, and gender identity Transsexuals in history

www.religioustolerance.org...



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 12:25 AM
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a reply to: Annee


Limiting his scope of things? How did you come up with that?

Well other then the fact that I have run across your posts for years now and came to the conclusion that your delusional and also have a deep seething feminist approach. Ya, there are other things which made me say that other then that.



I don't believe for one second humans are products of their environment, other then reflecting on it. Such as, if you are treated badly, will you treat others badly.

You yourself are nothing but a product of your environment. So how can you say that humans are not.



Are you seriously saying he might turn gay because he's raised by women?

Last I remember some years ago you were some mormon and raising kids for one of your newer husbands. I based my response on that. But yes if being raised by only female influence if the kid will not turn gay as you say, he will have a big gap in understanding other things, and probably have those leanings to him.



Research does show boys raised by women tend to be more compassionate. The older I get, the more I'm convinced people are exactly who they are born.

Generally by ages 1 to 5 they dont have a sense of belonging to any one sex, other then the way you treat them and there outside influence they can latch on to any number of traits. From 5 to 10 they really strive and look around to relate to things and yes that's when they really start progressing toward there leanings in life....Its why on this thread you have had people whos 5 year olds asked there dad or mom which sex they should like.

So ya, being raised by women does not make you more compassionate. If that were so there would be no such thing as war or any of that. Because for the past of all of history the majority of us all have been raised and been mostly influenced by women, all the way from cavemen times...Up to now. One of the biggest influences in our life's are our mothers.

So yes that what you speak about is a myth.



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 12:31 AM
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a reply to: Jamie1
Don't take this personally while I agree on talking to these kids in more calm manner or even seeing a psychiatrist. The things you describe have nothing to do with happiness or any of it. In fact if you get sad because you had a flat tire and needed to make yourself believe you were happy when the neighborhood patrol came by to help you, or your whole outings with your friends playing pretend. Well those are in no way no form actual real trials to sweat about.

But the fact remains that this kid had more pressure in staying the way he was born, much more. That right there says this thing in whatever is going may even be at a genetic level of change and not only a social complex change. In all, the only thing possible is a better transmission into society. I do not believe you people could stop it form happening, you have trouble understanding small concepts, much less something this far gone.



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 12:37 AM
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a reply to: DarthFazer


I can only say that we are conditioned to seek approval of others and caring about what people think is pointless .

That may be the whole crux. There conditioned to seek approval of others and of society. In the letter the kid wrote it was a big part of why she or if you prefer he went ahead with the suicide. So the problem may be that they are conditioned to much by everything really and all the jumble of information coming there way now a days to seek approval of the not only there environment but the PC state.

If this is going to effect kids it will likely start with those more highly perceptive of there involvement and confuse the heck out of them, eventually the less perceptive you are the longer its going to take...So ya, its a brave new world out there that kids in this day and age or in future ages will be born into.



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 12:39 AM
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originally posted by: criticalhit

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: criticalhit

I'm just not going to go the chemical poisoned environment in this thread. Or that there is an increase, as that is impossible to calculate, as people with genetic differences tended to be hidden until very recently.

Every human descended from the original "prototype" could be considered a mutation, including all variations of gender and sexual differences.

Reproduction is extremely complicated. When stirring the pot of all that is required to make another human, all variations are not only possible, but probable.








Id say this, the reality of the increase isn't something that needs to be calculated, it's apparent.

I'm a pretty well read guy and homosexuality of course has always been around, mainly in the form we see in the animal kindgdom, Top and Bottom, Dominate and Submissive but what we are seeing now is different, often a complete displacement of sexuality, the feeling of "being in the wrong body" not from a role swap perspective many have enjoyed over the centuries but rather the intensity of a mind wired wholly female in a male body or vice versa was just... never common like it is today.

And what you say "all variations probable" sure... I agree, but not common. And lets be very, very real this is a "hot topic" not because a handful of people are being born this way, no, no... it can't be because of "freedom" either because we aren't the first to have that.. It's because A LOT of people are experiencing the Transgender phenomena at this time and certainly there are REAL reasons for that.

Homosexuality has been a public issue in many civilizations, it's been around a long time with many people exhibiting the behavior, it's been public issue before, even going to the crusty old Bible it was a societal issue... Transgender behavior was not it's not really mentioned as a "social condition" large numbers of people didn't exhibit the condition in the past...

But they are now... I wont push the subject but to me the most important question here is Why?



I don't think there is anymore of a why here then why does DNA mutate or why does gravity work. I also think your wrong on there being some change in modern times. In Greece and other places homosexuality was common place. So I don't think there's a way to know if some in those societies felt transgendered. It's only fair to count those places because those were the places it was safe to be open about it...


Our mental wiring is so ridiculously complicated there is no telling how many Shades of personalities, sexualities, pscycosis and such are possible. So until we can actually manipulate such things. It's a losing battle to fight it. I'm even down with the thought it's a "usless" mutation for
( Because there's some good genetics lost because they are discusted by the opposite sex's peepee :p )
the human race, but until we can change that it's just too damn bad for those who don't lke it.



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 12:42 AM
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a reply to: snarky412

Society didn't need fixing in this case. Has nothing to do with society. The people in his life didn't accept him. That is not their fault. They have a right to not accept him or anyone. Yes even his parents. Perhaps if he had decided to live he would have realized this. You don't need anyone to accept you. You only need to accept yourself.

Life sucks for all but the most pampered of teenagers. Stepping in front of a truck when you are 17 because no one accepts you for who you are is beyond being weak. Suck in your chest, stand tall and go out in the world and find people that do if that is what you need. I am positive that he would have found happiness and acceptance eventually. These things are not guaranteed to anyone. You have to expend effort to find your place in this world. I know enough to know that there are very few situations in this world where suicide is the only option. This was not one of them.

The only sad thing about this story is that this person did not persevere.



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 12:45 AM
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a reply to: Jamie1
Well ya. Its that. Its what I said, if they really wanted there kid to get over it or even find a medium they went about it the wrong way. It not only is like that in teens, its just more obvious and there reaching a time in there life for it and them to were there biology and mental processes set.

But its also a think in adults, the only difference being being more accepted and so more numerous and so not a big deal...They are all every single human on this planet living in there constructed mentalities in there heads. None of it exists outside of that. Its all a mental construct.



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 12:50 AM
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originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: Annee


Limiting his scope of things? How did you come up with that?

Well other then the fact that I have run across your posts for years now and came to the conclusion that your delusional and also have a deep seething feminist approach. Ya, there are other things which made me say that other then that.


LOL, that's really hilarious. Feminism is about equality (you probably think its about dominance).

Why is accepting people for who they are and treating people equally important to me? My mother was disabled. She belonged to a disabled club. Those are the people I grew up with (long before any Disability act that gave them equality).

Newish husband? Of 22 years. Grandson, father died before he was a month old, I stepped in out of need.

Call me crazy



edit on 5-1-2015 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 12:58 AM
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a reply to: Annee
But feminist may have at one time been about equality. One time I belived it may have been about some sort of equality. Now I think its mostly a week shield females hold up, and offcourse, just another tool of the defacto social restructuring. Basically just more useful idiots for those in power.


Why is accepting people for who they are and treating people equally important to me? My mother was disabled. She belonged to a disabled club. Those are the people I grew up with (long before any Disabikity act).

Was your mom born with said dissablity? Besides this is not about how people are born, its about bringing some sanity to the whole thing. There have been studies and cases were kids were raised by animals and they grew up thinking there those animals. So ya! For the most part you can raise a kid to be anything, including thinking there a duck...Its not hard to do. Social engineering has been happening in societies across the globe since way before Babylon was nothing but 5 huts strung together. The only difference in our society is just that it has gotten much more complicated.

But yes you can best believe that the way people are, is on a big part because of how we were raised and thought and conditioned in our youth.



Newish husband? Of 22 years. Grandson, father died before he was a month old, I stepped in out of need.

OK. I am pretty sure I read in some other post some years ago you were part of one of the mormon groups. But if and were not, it does not matter. What I said still stands.


Call me crazy

If you insist.

edit on 1amMondayam052015f1amMon, 05 Jan 2015 01:49:14 -0600 by galadofwarthethird because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 01:03 AM
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originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: Jamie1
Don't take this personally while I agree on talking to these kids in more calm manner or even seeing a psychiatrist. The things you describe have nothing to do with happiness or any of it. In fact if you get sad because you had a flat tire and needed to make yourself believe you were happy when the neighborhood patrol came by to help you, or your whole outings with your friends playing pretend. Well those are in no way no form actual real trials to sweat about.

But the fact remains that this kid had more pressure in staying the way he was born, much more. That right there says this thing in whatever is going may even be at a genetic level of change and not only a social complex change. In all, the only thing possible is a better transmission into society. I do not believe you people could stop it form happening, you have trouble understanding small concepts, much less something this far gone.


Lol I don't take things personal.

I'm understand you don't know who I am, or my experiences. I don't play pretend with my friends.

Do you think finding your daughter dead on a sofa is real enough for you? Or your wife hanging from a water pipe? Or watching your husband put a bullet through his head? Or having your father and brothers rape you three or four times a week?

All of these situations are real. The initial shock and trauma is one thing. The long-term emotional suffering is another.

The only thing that makes anybody unhappy is their thoughts, the meanings they give to their experiences and situations.

It's their beliefs.

Leelah expressed the beliefs that led her to kill herself in great detail. None of them were facts. They were all beliefs. Every one of them.

If you can find an example of somebody who is emotionally suffering without having thoughts that are causing the suffering, please share.

The process is the same for everybody. Events happen in life. The meaning we give those events determines our emotional states. Our emotional states determine our actions.

Let's work backwards with Leelah.

She walked in front of a truck.

Before that she decided her life wasn't worth living.

Before that she decided she wanted her life to mean something.

Before that she decided she couldn't be happy.

Before that her mother took away her computer and wouldn't let her get the treatment.

Keep going back, further and further, and you'll see there are only two things:

The events or situations, and the beliefs she took on.

Beliefs are a choice. Nobody is required to decide to be unhappy based on any circumstance.

if that was the case, what would you ever say to somebody who found their daughter dead?

"Oh dear... yes, that's horrible. Well too bad. Not only is that horrible that your daughter killed herself, but I've got more bad news. Because of what happened... are you ready? This means you can NEVER be happy again or have a normal life. Nope. Sorry. This is it. You might as well kill yourself too."

Seriously? Is this what you believe?



posted on Jan, 5 2015 @ 01:09 AM
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a reply to: galadofwarthethird

Yes, I was Mormon for 5 years. Same husband. He was raised Mormon, had stopped going, wanted to try it as a married couple.

We quit because of the church Leaders involvement in Prop 8. (Most of my Mormom friends did not agree with what the Leaders did)

You got a problem with Mormons? Great people, great organization. If I could find a group like that, minus the religion, I am now atheist, I'd join in a nano second.




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