'Fix Society': Transgender Teen Posted Plea Before Suicide

a reply to: DYepes

What an interesting perspective.

a reply to: DYepes

You believe LGBT is geographical?

AN INTIMATE PORTRAIT OF SOMALIAN TRANS-WOMAN

www.blacklooks.org...

a reply to: MALBOSIA
Well go ahead and tell him he should like girls, and that is that, maybe. I mean is it my fault you people are influenced so easily by such silly things? Nope it is not, and I am not a liberal or any of those other things you called me, and the only PC i like is the electronic type I can play games on, like this one I am using to chat with you. I am sorry things from the internet seem to bother and influence you and you kid so easily.

a reply to: DYepes

If you understood what it meant to be transgendered - you would also understand that it is something that occurs the world over. If people have other problems to deal with - it won't change the fact that they are also living with this situation

This is not about vanity or materialism - this is about identity

You sound unhappy - no doubt someone will be along soon to explain either how you are correct - and that those people only need to rewrite their stories, reexamine the facts of their lives - get on with it all and be happy

Or - (and this would be a great surprise) that someone will point out that you needn't feel so outraged - you need only rewrite your story and deal with actual facts: kids who are transgendered know this is the case from a very early age. If they grow up in Somalia or Miami - no difference

originally posted by: ImaFungi
a reply to: Jamie1

Isnt there some law regarding the age up until where during the extent of a childs life its pretty much "my house, my rules"? The parent provides food, clothing, shelter and general ancestral, famila love and care, and then at that certain age the child is on there own? The reason its so hard to compare 'values' and value judgements and perceived harm and care and worth and 'mother knows best' type things, is, well far starters, it is possible and often likely that parents do know whats best, especially in relation to a youth in the ripe age of rebellion and misdirection and cultural and biological warfare and confusion. So if the kid is not past that age, I personally dont think a child should be able to hold their parents will and best interests hostage. Also you didnt really answer my question, you started to answer it, which is a nice approach, but if and when neither side budged on their stances, which side would you attempt to persuade is right? Do you think the parents views and feelings were incorrect, and you would be right talking them into, seeing them into, even if they can be persuaded against their initial instincts, that they should accept their child regardless, that that would be the correct course of action? Or would you try to persuade the child that they do not need to change their sex?

Seeing as a how part of the argument that came up and a main reason for debate is the age at which this sort of transition needs to begin in order to successfully take place, if the parents do not want their child to go through with it, what is the appropriate level of action if they cannot be convinced to change their minds? A non for profit industry of utopian communities for transexuals, like neverlands that the non legal aged parent trodden transexual desirees can legally run off to?

If you had a son that wanted to turn himself into a female starting around the age of 13-15 how would you react at first, and if he insisted on physical procedure how would you reactions evolve?

Wow.... great post and questions!

I wouldn't try to persuade either the parent or the child either was right or wrong.

This is purely hypothetical, but I'm guessing I would focus on the parent, not the child. The heart of the problem is the parent is losing control of their emotional state. They are not being in a state of unconditional love. Maybe it's fear. Maybe it's because they're judging their son. Whatever it is, it isn't going to be helpful if the parent is not happy.

The parent has a real belief system that the child is going to do irreparable harm to his or her life. I would never tell a parent what's "right" or "wrong."

What I usually do is get them to chunk up to a higher level. What's their outcome? What do they REALLY want for their child?

They probably think that their child is on a path that's going to lead to unhappiness.

That's where I would drill in with stories and facts.

Is it a fact that their child will be unhappy as a transgender? Or is that a story?

Then I would compare it to this: Will your child be happy if they don't feel loved or accepted by you?

True, they are both belief systems. However, the next question would be this:

Which believe serves you, serves your child, and serves the greater good? That he won't be happy if he's a transgender? Of that he won't be happy if you don't unconditionally love him?

That's the key point right there.

That's because if you're going to believe one story or the other, to believe your child will be better off with unconditional love is FAR better. That belief serves the child. That believe serves the parent because now all the parent has to do is be unconditionally loving. And that belief serves the greater good because now both parent and child are happy and loving to each other.

If it was my own child or another child, my reaction would be the same. I would most importantly help my child just be aware of the stories and facts of the situation. No, most importantly I would tell and show my child that I unconditionally love him, and that his life is his life. I'm just a caretaker. He's a gift to me.

I would not impose my beliefs on him. I would first examine my own beliefs. The most important parenting belief I think is to disconnect your self worth from your child's life or accomplishments.

But yeah, that would be a tough call and require a lot on inquiry if the child was in a situation where he insisted on a physical procedure at 16. Again, just hypothesizing, I would guess that I would tell him that as his parent, I know he can be happy with or without the procedure. Happiness is always his choice, not matter what the external circumstances.

And I would probably tell him that as a parent, my choice is to wait until he is older and more mature to make that decision. My personal belief is that the quality of his life is not based on his genitals, but on the quality of his thoughts. It's also my personal belief that the quality of his life isn't going to be different if he waits until he's 18 and makes that decision.

I would make sure he knows I respect his wants, but that just because he wants something I'm not obligated to provide it. Beyond the transgender issue, I would want him to learn that his wants are not another person's obligations.

Now, to play out the scenario further... if he somehow got to the point where a doctor needed parental approval for surgery, without me facilitating it, I would probably weigh the situation again.

My gut feeling is that I would not give the approval because of the permanence of the consequences. As a parent, my thought would be that it's such a large decision that affects his life, and that waiting until he was 18 is my choice for him.

I guess beyond the transgender issue, the higher level principal is that his wants and beliefs are fine. I will accept him and be unconditionally loving. And that doesn't mean that I must take the actions he wants.

To put this in context of Leelah's beliefs, I personally don't have the belief that the treatment she wanted had to be given at that moment in her life for her to have the life she wanted. She stacked all those beliefs about what it meant. But I don't know the specifics of the treatment, it's effects, or anything more than superficial discussions of it.

So anyway, everything I just wrote was one big story... speculation. The simple answer is I would always go back to unconditional love, and make all my decisions from a place of love, not fear. What those might be in a real situation, I can't say now. I can only guess.

Great questions. Thank you.

a reply to: Annee
You should allow that 7yr old to experience something other then a house full of women. Children for the most part are influenced by such thing, so ya if he is raised in a house of all females that will have an effect on him, just as it would have a different effect on him if raised in a house of all males.

Telling him he should so do as he wants, or chose which he likes is cool and all, but limiting his scope of things while that age and growing will definitely effect him. For the most part humans are merely just the products of there environments. So no it would not be surprising that if he grew up around all females he would not be interested in other things. But that to depends on the individual in question.

a reply to: Jamie1
While I never thought that seeing a shrink does anything to anyone. I was mostley basing that premise based on me and my outlook. But I think your right, or at least in the way that they needed to talk and see somebody else who is in no way concerned or trying to implant there believes on them. So ya! Seeing a shrink may have helped this kid who suicide to see other options, or even if she went on with her believes to work them out in such a way that its not completely destructive.

But I think the parents should have seen that coming at a younger age, it even says in the kids death notes that he or she felt like that for a long while and even tried to pretend gay in school. In all whatever is going on I do not think its in that majority, at least given the populations of any given city or planet. But this is not new either, I do not know why people think it is. Besides ever tried arguing or convincing a teen of anything?

Does not work to well, even for those who want to change whatever there issue is, and plenty of people are just as stubborn over more trifling things. I know I am, this kid also is, and from the little I read of your threads so are you, and every other single person in this thread as well. The only difference its all not on the same thing.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: Annee
You should allow that 7yr old to experience something other then a house full of women. Children for the most part are influenced by such thing, so ya if he is raised in a house of all females that will have an effect on him, just as it would have a different effect on him if raised in a house of all males.

Telling him he should so do as he wants, or chose which he likes is cool and all, but limiting his scope of things while that age and growing will definitely effect him. For the most part humans are merely just the products of there environments. So no it would not be surprising that if he grew up around all females he would not be interested in other things. But that to depends on the individual in question.

Limiting his scope of things? How did you come up with that?

I don't believe for one second humans are products of their environment, other then reflecting on it. Such as, if you are treated badly, will you treat others badly.

Are you seriously saying he might turn gay because he's raised by women?

Research does show boys raised by women tend to be more compassionate.

The older I get, the more I'm convinced people are exactly who they are born.

a reply to: Annee

I'm not going into this to defend the other guys Pov, I have no personal claim to any hostile reaction to said subject matter, I do feel for people emotionally on this topic and many other topics...

But with that said, he'd be sort of correct.

There would be a very varied geographical pattern here. And not just because people in other cultures may remain deeper in the closet by itself.

While any thinking pattern, hormonal issue in embryonic stage, traumatic reaction genetic variance can occur anywhere the USA is most definitely at the Center of reasons why it is occurring more often...

We can go into plastics and register tape and all sorts of things which are Estrogen mimics that we are the center of globally getting into the environment, we can absolutely say that exposure during the formative years of childhood have a direct impact the wiring of the brain and yes we are the media kings and yes the Imprint process is hard at work in regards to Fetishes and sexuality in this country, I could never actually argue with some of the GMO data that exists or would even want to debate that he media is hyper sexual, our culture is waaay to concerned with sexuality in general and all this media and internet actually serves to release Dopamine which acts almost like Cocaine or Meth Amphetamine and it's well established that "additional cross-talk" between the hemispheres of the brain is a hallmark of Homosexuality...

I'd say for sure, absolutely IF the big chemical companies wanted to fund actual non biased research into causation and demographics we would find America is by far, by far at the center of it all with far greater instance...

So yeah, while I hear the "anger and bias" and reject that. The guys still right, your gender, cancer, autism etc, etc et al issues... are far more prevalent in the USA with our "everything estrogen" "GMO'S" "Thousands of chemicals" "Media" "Internet" "Over stimulation" "Socio-sexual preoccupation as a culture" "Drug abuse" "Culture without family" and many, many other things...

My only dog in this fight.... is that, "Tolerance" just wont work, nor will education, social programs Trans gendered bathrooms or any of it.. elimination of the "Causation" is the only answer (which I know sounds awful) like an attack on the Transgender but no... just elimination of the "Why" behind the current prevalence because as I stated before the "why" has a lot of other affects most a lot more serious than gender issues in regards to consequence, affects like multi generational genetic damage for example, affects that are a long term threat to the survival of us and a lot of species aside from us...

And just from the get go, all the education and understanding in the world won't fully change that this can be a really negative psychological issue... the bottom line is, "No one wants to be Tolerated" we are all the same, we want to rise, we want to be loved, we want to be able to be "special" and feel good and there is only so far getting people to "not actively hate" and "accept" will ever go... They still will rarely go on to be "prom queen" for example, for the most part kids in HS wont ever, ever be saying in the halls "there goes James, he's transgendered isn't that cool" it will sadly always be an "odd person out" sort of condition to live in and it makes life harder and if given choice before birth most people wouldn't choose it... we like to pretend we are all different but in reality most of what people do to be different is to be considered "Cooler" in reality we all like to be completely accepted and at least have a chance to socially be on top... I don't think the social negatives can ever be eliminated any more than Autism will be a plus in acquiring most jobs or Cancer will be painless

And just being totally honest, all this money and effort and activism and educational funding that goes into addressing "the condition" is to me the exact same reason all the money in Cancer is to treatment not cure, the Big Chemical companies don't want liability, they lobby the govt and the govt already has a foot in the agenda of population control...

I'd just throw good money down that... the further you get away from the USA and places we sell a lot of daily crap to and are infused with our media etc, etc et al... the incidence decreases dramatically for sure. There is always "causation"

a reply to: criticalhit

I'm just not going to go the chemical poisoned environment in this thread. Or that there is an increase, as that is impossible to calculate, as people with genetic differences tended to be hidden until very recently.

Every human descended from the original "prototype" could be considered a mutation, including all variations of gender and sexual differences.

Reproduction is extremely complicated. When stirring the pot of all that is required to make another human, all variations are not only possible, but probable.

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: criticalhit

I'm just not going to go the chemical poisoned environment in this thread. Or that there is an increase, as that is impossible to calculate, as people with genetic differences tended to be hidden until very recently.

Every human descended from the original "prototype" could be considered a mutation, including all variations of gender and sexual differences.

Reproduction is extremely complicated. When stirring the pot of all that is required to make another human, all variations are not only possible, but probable.

Yup.

a reply to: Puppylove
I know it's not appropriate to post music in such a sad tragic topic. but these songs are very relative to the topic.
Also many of us express our feelings with music (sad, happy, anger etc)

Here is a transgender artist that was depressed and suicidal and the expression through music and appearance saved her life and gave the world same very emotional masterpieces of art

The following songs are about the marginalization of transgender ( and generally different) people by the society and the desperation and sadness and solitude that such a person can feel.

-Warning true Goth inside-
Is it safe to SLEEP alone?


When a killer is your only ''human'' friend, but transgender people don't be afraid cause he only kills men, the man in you


also one doom masterpiece

By the time you read this, I will already be dead
Do not reply to this, it is only to be read
By the time you read this, it will already be true
Do not reply to this, but realize what you made me do

By the time you read this, I will have gone to the place where good men go
Where they go wrong, when they go wrong
By the time you read this, I will already have been changed
Do not reply to this, after I've experienced maximum pain


and another one

Hate is my only friend
pain is my father
torment is delight to me
Death is my sanctuary
I seek it with pleasure
Please let me die in solitude

Receive my sacrifice
my lifeblood is exhausted
no-one gave love and understanding
Hear these words
vilifiers and pretenders
and please let me die in solitude

While I'm positive that this chemical stuff has made this all more prominent. Transgender related issues have existed long before such chemical pollution was proliferous. Yes the chemical thing is a problem, but such imbalances can and will happen even if we clean up our food and drink. Once they do happen, it's who we are now. Is an innate part of our being. Pretending that we can focus on the chemicals, which only increases the likeliness these imbalances occur, and ignore the real people dealing with this inherent aspect of themselves, as well as pretend that a little chemical cleaner will make it all magically go away, is crazy.

We are real people, we matter.


Edit: Was not in response to the poster directly above me

a reply to: Dr1Akula

I've only tried suicide once. I told a good friend I hadn't talk to for years goodby randomly on a messenger. That was all I said "Goodbye". Within 30 minutes they tracked down my parents number by phone tagging, ect, and had my parents track me down. Saved my life. Never again have I attempted.

My friend, New York, myself and my parents then, Virginia.

I still find it touching how quickly they worked, and how perceptive they were to realize from that one simple statement.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: Jamie1
While I never thought that seeing a shrink does anything to anyone. I was mostley basing that premise based on me and my outlook. But I think your right, or at least in the way that they needed to talk and see somebody else who is in no way concerned or trying to implant there believes on them. So ya! Seeing a shrink may have helped this kid who suicide to see other options, or even if she went on with her believes to work them out in such a way that its not completely destructive.

But I think the parents should have seen that coming at a younger age, it even says in the kids death notes that he or she felt like that for a long while and even tried to pretend gay in school. In all whatever is going on I do not think its in that majority, at least given the populations of any given city or planet. But this is not new either, I do not know why people think it is. Besides ever tried arguing or convincing a teen of anything?

Does not work to well, even for those who want to change whatever there issue is, and plenty of people are just as stubborn over more trifling things. I know I am, this kid also is, and from the little I read of your threads so are you, and every other single person in this thread as well. The only difference its all not on the same thing.

Interesting thing you brought up.

Kids tend to identify as an extension of their parents until they're teens, then they need to differentiate in some way to form their own identity. At that age, the more a parent tries to make the teen like the parents, the more the teen will choose options that are NOT like the parent.

Parents labels this as rebelling. It's not. It's asserting one's own identity. It's natural and needed.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Dr1Akula

I've only tried suicide once. I told a good friend I hadn't talk to for years goodby randomly on a messenger. That was all I said "Goodbye". Within 30 minutes they tracked down my parents number by phone tagging, ect, and had my parents track me down. Saved my life. Never again have I attempted.

My friend, New York, myself and my parents then, Virginia.

I still find it touching how quickly they worked, and how perceptive they were to realize from that one simple statement.

The experience of learning somebody you love has killed themselves is one of the most horrific experiences a person can have. To go forward from this type of experience is not something most people have the skills to do.

I'm very grateful you're here sharing this today.

Know that no matter how dire the world seems, believe it or not, there are people who love you unconditionally. It doesn't even have to be somebody you know.

a reply to: Jamie1

Suicide runs in my family. I've experienced suicide first hand. But when that level of despair and desperation hits, is hard to keep going forward. You end up only seen pain and helplessness. I'm in control now, but I know what it's like to really hit emotional rock bottom.

Your stuff about stories is nice in theory, but in practice, is not so easy to turn off how you feel and think like a tap and switch modes. Two minds are not built the same, they work differently. A mental trick that might work for one, won't work for another. Is why multiple methodologies have popped up to dealing with these kinds of stressors, because not everything works for everyone.

a reply to: Puppylove

very true. I am also happy you made it through
and you should feel blessed, you have people that love you and understand you

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Jamie1

Suicide runs in my family. I've experienced suicide first hand. But when that level of despair and desperation hits, is hard to keep going forward. You end up only seen pain and helplessness. I'm in control now, but I know what it's like to really hit emotional rock bottom.

Your stuff about stories is nice in theory, but in practice, is not so easy to turn off how you feel and think like a tap and switch modes. Two minds are not built the same, they work differently. A mental trick that might work for one, won't work for another. Is why multiple methodologies have popped up to dealing with these kinds of stressors, because not everything works for everyone.

It's not a theory. It's how all our minds work.

You can't have "negative" emotions without thoughts and meanings you give things.

Take your statement, "Suicide runs in my family."

That's a powerful belief.

What are the facts?

3 people killed themselves? 5? 10?

"Runs in my family" implies a lot more meaning than whatever the facts are. How many does it take before you can say it "runs" in your family? 8? 4?

There is no fix all super mental gymnastics a person can do to suddenly start thinking positive. There's chemicals involved as well. I can sit here when in depressive mode and tell myself all the nice things I want, I can force myself to smile, make up any story I want to try and put a positive spin on things. Will still feel like complete crap.

Same with when I'm manic. I could get in a car accident, my dog could die, ect, my friend could tell me their mom died. I can then tell myself how sad I should be, but I'll still be happy and excited no matter how much I emphasize the truth.

The, you decide what you believe, how you feel thing is not reality. It works for you, because you are naturally positive. Is actually probably pretty damn hard for you to really see the bad and be down on yourself and what happens. When you try, I bet you find yourself not really feeling it, not that you would try, why would you, who wants to feel like crap? Not me.

There's a difference between saying, yeah ok, and pushing on, and actually feeling and believing what you tell yourself. You say your emotions come from the stories you tell yourself, that's not really true, your emotions come both before and after the story, they influence each other and are tangled together.

Is like when people act like you can just choose to believe in God. I can tell myself I believe in God, I can pretend I believe in God, but that's as far it can go, because it's not how I feel. No amount of my trying to convince myself is going to change that. Something would need to happen break through the barrier that's a part of me and prove it to my subconscious too, the deeper part of me that exists beneath all the stories and lies I and everyone else tells me. The actual me. Or sometimes just the me filled with endorphins or some other chemical, or lacking something, ect that's either boosting me up, or dragging me down.

The mind is many things, it is both nature and nurture. There is will, but it is not free.

As for the runs in my family thing. Is a story told to me, but, I didn't even find out it was prevalent in my family until after I tried. So it was not even a factor for me story wise at the time, I... did... not... know.

Self delusion is what you are preaching, and self delusion can be both positive and negative. Is trying to trick your brain to feel a way different than it naturally wants to. It is a skill and a mental discipline. Is also not one everyone can master, especially not easily. For some it comes easier than others. Some that succeed do so after years of practice. Others try their damnedest but it never works, instead they get more and more frustrated, they try and convince themselves of the positive, they try to see things better, they make every attempt at the mental gymnastics you describe, but it just never works, because, well it sucks to be them, they are simply not wired that way.

Everyone has their own little cure all, especially the happy people, it seems so simple so effortless to them, they don't understand why not everyone else can do what comes so easy to them.

It's a skill, it's not inherent, it needs to be trained, but some have an aptitude for it, while others, like with drawing, never get past stick figures.

There is no single wonderful special mental gymnastics trick that can cure everyone's mental issues and anguishes. That's simply not reality. I'm glad it works for you. I've tried it, it does not work for me, never has. This is not my first time dealing with ideas and concepts like this. I've studied this kind of stuff, tried different things, because I do not like feeling this way. I've been proactive, I've fought many mental battles, tried many methods of attack. I'm dealt with and fought with depression all my life, I've done it proactively. I now know how to cope for the most part. Have had my extra bad moments, but I've pushed past them, using various tricks I've learned that work for me.

So yeah, not the most appreciative when I spend my whole life dealing with issues, proactively doing everything I can to deal with them, including the very thing you describe, not just once, but multiple times, and having you insists that no, my brain really does work like you describe and just doing what you say will be a magic cure all. Is the same as the transgender issue, is someone else coming in and insisting be cause they feel a certain way, because a certain thing is true for them, for how they feel see and perceive the world, then it must also be true for you.

I don't mind the advice, I appreciate that, but the insistence that I'm wrong and I can just change who I am and how I feel because you say I can, or because I just want to, and that it's really just that simple, that I don't appreciate.

I'm glad it works for you, really I am. I'm also glad and happy for all those other people it works for. There are many. I'm not one of them, and there are many like me, and it does us a great disservice to insists something is true, when we've fought long and hard trying that very thing to no significant effect. I want what you say to be true, I mean if it was, I'd have been happy most of my life.